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3310 Jet Reccomendations #1571827
02/01/14 12:52 AM
02/01/14 12:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster Offline OP
enthusiast
PossessedDuster  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
Working through some tunings bugs in the 440 as much as I can in the winter.

Had some issues with the Edelbrock that was on the car. When it was dyno'd it was pig rich and couldn't be brought down to good numbers.

I later swapped to a 3310 Holley with clear bowl plugs and a Quick fuel adjustable secondary set up and electric choke. Car runs much smoother and plugs look good.

However it occasionally had issues with popping through the carb on quick throttle stabs.

I just put in a new Firecore distributor and wires -as my old stuff was tired- Runs even smoother now with nice start ups. However anything more then 15 deg initial timing it really want to pop through the carb when revved at 15 it's not so bad. If you bring it up not as quick it'll rev to the moon with no issues.

Pretty sure I have a lean condition as everything checks out. The carb is box stock for jets and shooters so would would you reccomend?

1967 Plymouth Belvedere:

1973 Chrysler Newport 440 4 BBL cleaned & deburred.
.030” over, crank
.010 under mains & rods, ARP head & rod
bolts & windage tray pistons- .030
H143 CP hyperutetic & file fit rings R927835
performer RPM HEADS & intake
Hughes-timing set, CAM, lifters, rocker shafts, roller rockers,
Hughes CAM-HEH 2832BL
Flat Tappet Hydraulic / One Bolt Timing Gear. Street performance and strip: HP exhaust or headers, performance intake 3.70:1 gears, 4 bbl or 3x2, Idles so you know its in there. HP ported Stage I heads 160psi suggested cylinder pressure 2800rpm stall. Very hot daily driver.

Camshaft Technical Details
Intake Valve Lift 1.5
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5 .524"
.540"

Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .558"
.576"

Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050" 228°
232°

Lobe Separation Angle 110º

Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050" 7° BTC
49° BBC

Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050" 41° ABC
3° ATC

Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI 165

Sweet Spot RPM 1800 - 5400

TTI 1 7/8” headers 2 1/2” pipes with X pipe.

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571828
02/01/14 03:31 AM
02/01/14 03:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline
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Granite Bay CA
Not sure if it is within your budget, but installing a wideband 02 sensor and Air/Fuel guage made me a believer in using technology to your advantage. If I were to continue to rely on my limited skills to tune my car, I'd be waaaay off.
According to my testing, my car still runs rich/fat. If I were tuning on the basis of the smell of fuel or visually seeing black smoke, I'd think I was fine.
The guage is a great tool for a guy like me. Otherwise I'm just guessing what the engine is doing.
Regarding the popping sound, that seems to be more of a timing issue. I'm thinking a crack in the dist. cap or carbon tracks. Maybe a defective rotor or an out of phase reluctor or similar issue?
Stange story: For years I had an intermittent issue where the car would run great but hours or days later it wouldn't start due to having no spark. After much digging, I found that the roll pin on the reluctor star/wheel was loose, allowing the wheel to "clock" and make the distributor want to fire at the wrong time, or not at all.

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: Kern Dog] #1571829
02/01/14 03:41 AM
02/01/14 03:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
Truck Nut
340SHORTY  Offline
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Kent, Wa
try going up 2 sizes on the squirters.


I am truckless..
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571830
02/01/14 12:52 PM
02/01/14 12:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,068
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Benton, IL.
IF you are sure you are dealing with a lean issue, then there are 3 basic things you can do. Go up to a 8.5 or 9.5 power valve, go to a bigger acc. shooter, go to an acc. pump cam that gives more fuel earlier.

If you have the drill bits, you can drill the shooter bigger rather than buy a new one.

These suggestions are the simplest bolt-on ways to richen up the off-idle. There are other things to do, but they are not as simple.

Also check your timing curve. What intake are you running?


Master, again and still
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571831
02/01/14 01:16 PM
02/01/14 01:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

However it occasionally had issues with popping through the carb on quick throttle stabs.



What Shorty said, check the AP. I'm assuming it did not do this with the pig rich Eddy?


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: RapidRobert] #1571832
02/01/14 02:21 PM
02/01/14 02:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster Offline OP
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Alberta Canada
With the Eddy once I changed the setting on the pump linkage it was good.

Intake is an Edelbrock RPM

As far as the curve goes its a brand new Firecore distributor paperwork is in the garage so I don't have the curve offhand.

It runs fine otherwise and will pull rpm just fine and only pops when the throttle is hit to quickly which is why I am sure its a lean condition.

I have some different shooter sizes I'll see what ones I have.

Last edited by PossessedDuster; 02/01/14 02:35 PM.
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571833
02/01/14 03:58 PM
02/01/14 03:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Quote:

It runs fine otherwise and will pull rpm just fine and only pops when the throttle is hit to quickly which is why I am sure its a lean condition.


this is WOT correct? What RPM? When you nail it the vac adv can retracts & changes rotor phasing along with reluctor gap (I'm assuming you are running vac adv). If so you might check that in addition to the AP. I hate to suggest a slight vac leak & want to k.i.s.s. but I feel something is being missed (I hope not tho). Holler how it turns out


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: RapidRobert] #1571834
02/01/14 04:18 PM
02/01/14 04:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Overpriced Housing Central
I'd try 3-5* more initial timing, re-tune idle settings and see how it responds.

If it does it when rolling in at above idle as well, go to a larger squirter and see if that helps.

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: RapidRobert] #1571835
02/01/14 04:20 PM
02/01/14 04:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster Offline OP
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Alberta Canada
Too much snow to drive the car so this has all been done in the garage from idle.

Idles around 750rpm and hitting it from idle will produce the pop and then it will "catch up" and continue into the upper rpms.

At the same time if held at a higher rpm and hit it will USUALLY produce the same result.

I've checked the carb base and intake before but will do so again for any leaks.

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571836
02/01/14 07:36 PM
02/01/14 07:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,650
Harm City Md.
Dan Halen Offline
top fuel
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Harm City Md.
Stock squirter size on those is usually 31, first look into the carb

with engine off and verify you have good equal flow on both sides when throttling. If that's good, I'd bump two sizes and see what you get.

If one stream is stronger than the other, the needle may be sticking or one orifice needs cleaned.

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: Dan Halen] #1571837
02/01/14 10:45 PM
02/01/14 10:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster Offline OP
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31 is the stock size of discharge nozzle. Holley doesn't build a 33 or 34 so I tried a 35 that I had. No change still pops back as bad.

From idle to 1700rpm 90% of the time a throttle stab will result in a pop. From 2000rpm and up it seems fine.

I sprayed brake clean around the base of the intake and carb with no real change in idle.

Both streams from the shooter look ok.

I also tried with NO vacuum advance and still no change. Adding more initial timing only made it worse.

Any chance of this being ignition module related? I have a Ren-n-ator on order

I took a short video

Last edited by PossessedDuster; 02/01/14 11:08 PM.
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571838
02/01/14 11:22 PM
02/01/14 11:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
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Kent, Wa
""Any chance of this being ignition module related?""

Im surprised it runs at all with that POS orange box. I wouldnt be spending any money on that Rev N Ator eithe..


I am truckless..
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: 340SHORTY] #1571839
02/01/14 11:47 PM
02/01/14 11:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster Offline OP
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Alberta Canada
Ok...

I read a lot of good independent reviews on the rev-n-ator before ordering one.

What do you recomend? If you say FBO I'm not interested in anything he has to sell.

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571840
02/02/14 12:02 AM
02/02/14 12:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

I also tried with NO vacuum advance and still no change. Adding more initial timing only made it worse.
Any chance of this being ignition module related? I have a Ren-n-ator on order



that eliminates rotor phasing & almost certainly eliminates reluctor gap. I'm thinking not the module. I am puzzled why more initial is aggravating this. Sure sounds like classic A/F issue. Keep us updated


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571841
02/02/14 12:43 AM
02/02/14 12:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
Truck Nut
340SHORTY  Offline
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Quote:

Ok...

I read a lot of good independent reviews on the rev-n-ator before ordering one.

What do you recomend? If you say FBO I'm not interested in anything he has to sell.





and what in the RNA literature convince you to order 1. I hope its not the HP gain crap.

I ran the factory ECU on my 81 shorty 340-6 ect for a while. Changed to a MSD and it was a world of difference. I have a spare 6AL Id sell for a decent price.


I am truckless..
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: RapidRobert] #1571842
02/02/14 12:46 AM
02/02/14 12:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Overpriced Housing Central
Did you adjust anything when you added the timing? If you added it and did nothing else, yeah it's going to make it worse..

How did you set the idle mixture screws?

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: RobX4406] #1571843
02/02/14 01:06 AM
02/02/14 01:06 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
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7e5dartsport Offline
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montreal, quebec,canada
from what you are saying, what catches my attention is that you say the previous carb was pig rich. now if the plugs are back and sooty, couldnt the popping be eliminated from a change to fresh plugs?


fully legal sounds the same as full illegal...
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: RobX4406] #1571844
02/02/14 01:59 AM
02/02/14 01:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
PossessedDuster Offline OP
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PossessedDuster  Offline OP
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Posts: 232
Alberta Canada
The reason I ordered the Rev-n-ator was not the horse power claims. I wanted simple and plug n play with my current set-up that would be reliable and work well. All of which from what I read fits the product.

Plugs look good. The eddy came off last summer and the 3310 went on. It was good out of the box but would pop now and again.

Knowing my old distributor looked tired inside and my plug wires where also not the best quality I figured to clean the ignition system up first and go from there. Now it seems to be worse.

As far as idle mixture screws I was taught to set them for max rpm then back them out just a little stopping before the rpm starts to drop.

I'll try bumping the timing back up to 18 initial and resetting the idle mixture.

Currently pulls about 9-10" of vacuum at idle. Worth playing with the power valve?

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571845
02/02/14 02:18 AM
02/02/14 02:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Granite Bay CA
Quote:

The reason I ordered the Rev-n-ator was not the horse power claims. I wanted simple and plug n play with my current set-up that would be reliable and work well. All of which from what I read fits the product.





I remember reading the article written by Dunnick Racing about the Rev-N-Nator. I even started a thread on the HP differences shown in the dyno sheet. I was doubtful about it but liked the idea of the LED display and the Rev limiter. I bought one but it made my detonation problems worse. Since then I've made other changes and reinstalled the Rev box. The car runs great with it.

Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations [Re: PossessedDuster] #1571846
02/02/14 02:27 AM
02/02/14 02:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,607
Western Washington
Sixgun Offline
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Western Washington
Old school, " arich idle mixture is much less likely to lean out on tip in"
open the mixtures 1/4 maybe even 1/2 turn and see if it fixes anything.
The # 35 squirter may not work any better without the 50cc pump and cam to supply it.
Your idle mixtures should actually be tuned to max vacuum hot, idling, with a vacuum gauge.
Shorty has a good point about MSDs, they "make" an engine more tolerant to transient "lean/rich" events with the multi spark capability lighting marginal mixtures reliably, as well as more spark energy to the plug than a lot of ignitions out there.
Power valve is worth looking at, and should be selected at a rating of 2" of vacuum below your best hot idle achievable vacuum.(you get 9,you buy and install a #70)so it stays shut above 7" and opens quickly to ease transition from isle circuit to power as soon as you hit the throttle and vac drops below 7. Hope this helps.Case


I'm 55 now, no time to waste. Not a week goes by that I don't hear about someone passing on.Let's get out there,smoke some tires,have a beer with a good friend,do what you have always wanted to do.I am pretty sure no one will ever say on their deathbed "gee I'm glad my life was calm and boring"
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