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3310 Jet Reccomendations
Working through some tunings bugs in the 440 as much as I can in the winter.
Had some issues with the Edelbrock that was on the car. When it was dyno'd it was pig rich and couldn't be brought down to good numbers.
I later swapped to a 3310 Holley with clear bowl plugs and a Quick fuel adjustable secondary set up and electric choke. Car runs much smoother and plugs look good.
However it occasionally had issues with popping through the carb on quick throttle stabs.
I just put in a new Firecore distributor and wires -as my old stuff was tired- Runs even smoother now with nice start ups. However anything more then 15 deg initial timing it really want to pop through the carb when revved at 15 it's not so bad. If you bring it up not as quick it'll rev to the moon with no issues.
Pretty sure I have a lean condition as everything checks out. The carb is box stock for jets and shooters so would would you reccomend?
1967 Plymouth Belvedere:
1973 Chrysler Newport 440 4 BBL cleaned & deburred.
.030” over, crank
.010 under mains & rods, ARP head & rod
bolts & windage tray pistons- .030
H143 CP hyperutetic & file fit rings R927835
performer RPM HEADS & intake
Hughes-timing set, CAM, lifters, rocker shafts, roller rockers,
Hughes CAM-HEH 2832BL
Flat Tappet Hydraulic / One Bolt Timing Gear. Street performance and strip: HP exhaust or headers, performance intake 3.70:1 gears, 4 bbl or 3x2, Idles so you know its in there. HP ported Stage I heads 160psi suggested cylinder pressure 2800rpm stall. Very hot daily driver.
Camshaft Technical Details
Intake Valve Lift 1.5
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5 .524"
.540"
Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .558"
.576"
Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050" 228°
232°
Lobe Separation Angle 110º
Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050" 7° BTC
49° BBC
Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050" 41° ABC
3° ATC
Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI 165
Sweet Spot RPM 1800 - 5400
TTI 1 7/8” headers 2 1/2” pipes with X pipe.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 07:31 AM
Not sure if it is within your budget, but installing a wideband 02 sensor and Air/Fuel guage made me a believer in using technology to your advantage. If I were to continue to rely on my limited skills to tune my car, I'd be waaaay off.
According to my testing, my car still runs rich/fat. If I were tuning on the basis of the smell of fuel or visually seeing black smoke, I'd think I was fine.
The guage is a great tool for a guy like me. Otherwise I'm just guessing what the engine is doing.
Regarding the popping sound, that seems to be more of a timing issue. I'm thinking a crack in the dist. cap or carbon tracks. Maybe a defective rotor or an out of phase reluctor or similar issue?
Stange story: For years I had an intermittent issue where the car would run great but hours or days later it wouldn't start due to having no spark. After much digging, I found that the roll pin on the reluctor star/wheel was loose, allowing the wheel to "clock" and make the distributor want to fire at the wrong time, or not at all.
Posted By: 340SHORTY
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 07:41 AM
try going up 2 sizes on the squirters.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 04:52 PM
IF you are sure you are dealing with a lean issue, then there are 3 basic things you can do. Go up to a 8.5 or 9.5 power valve, go to a bigger acc. shooter, go to an acc. pump cam that gives more fuel earlier.
If you have the drill bits, you can drill the shooter bigger rather than buy a new one.
These suggestions are the simplest bolt-on ways to richen up the off-idle. There are other things to do, but they are not as simple.
Also check your timing curve. What intake are you running?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 05:16 PM
Quote:
However it occasionally had issues with popping through the carb on quick throttle stabs.
What Shorty said, check the AP. I'm assuming it did not do this with the pig rich Eddy?
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 06:21 PM
With the Eddy once I changed the setting on the pump linkage it was good.
Intake is an Edelbrock RPM
As far as the curve goes its a brand new Firecore distributor paperwork is in the garage so I don't have the curve offhand.
It runs fine otherwise and will pull rpm just fine and only pops when the throttle is hit to quickly which is why I am sure its a lean condition.
I have some different shooter sizes I'll see what ones I have.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 07:58 PM
Quote:
It runs fine otherwise and will pull rpm just fine and only pops when the throttle is hit to quickly which is why I am sure its a lean condition.
this is WOT correct? What RPM? When you nail it the vac adv can retracts & changes rotor phasing along with reluctor gap (I'm assuming you are running vac adv). If so you might check that in addition to the AP. I hate to suggest a slight vac leak & want to k.i.s.s. but I feel something is being missed (I hope not tho). Holler how it turns out
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 08:18 PM
I'd try 3-5* more initial timing, re-tune idle settings and see how it responds.
If it does it when rolling in at above idle as well, go to a larger squirter and see if that helps.
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 08:20 PM
Too much snow to drive the car so this has all been done in the garage from idle.
Idles around 750rpm and hitting it from idle will produce the pop and then it will "catch up" and continue into the upper rpms.
At the same time if held at a higher rpm and hit it will USUALLY produce the same result.
I've checked the carb base and intake before but will do so again for any leaks.
Posted By: Dan Halen
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/01/14 11:36 PM
Stock squirter size on those is usually 31, first look into the carb
with engine off and verify you have good equal flow on both sides when throttling. If that's good, I'd bump two sizes and see what you get.
If one stream is stronger than the other, the needle may be sticking or one orifice needs cleaned.
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 02:45 AM
31 is the stock size of discharge nozzle. Holley doesn't build a 33 or 34 so I tried a 35 that I had. No change still pops back as bad.
From idle to 1700rpm 90% of the time a throttle stab will result in a pop. From 2000rpm and up it seems fine.
I sprayed brake clean around the base of the intake and carb with no real change in idle.
Both streams from the shooter look ok.
I also tried with NO vacuum advance and still no change. Adding more initial timing only made it worse.
Any chance of this being ignition module related? I have a Ren-n-ator on order
I took a short video
Posted By: 340SHORTY
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 03:22 AM
""Any chance of this being ignition module related?""
Im surprised it runs at all with that POS orange box. I wouldnt be spending any money on that Rev N Ator eithe..
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 03:47 AM
Ok...
I read a lot of good independent reviews on the rev-n-ator before ordering one.
What do you recomend? If you say FBO I'm not interested in anything he has to sell.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 04:02 AM
Quote:
I also tried with NO vacuum advance and still no change. Adding more initial timing only made it worse.
Any chance of this being ignition module related? I have a Ren-n-ator on order
that eliminates rotor phasing & almost certainly eliminates reluctor gap. I'm thinking not the module. I am puzzled why more initial is aggravating this. Sure sounds like classic A/F issue. Keep us updated
Posted By: 340SHORTY
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 04:43 AM
Quote:
Ok...
I read a lot of good independent reviews on the rev-n-ator before ordering one.
What do you recomend? If you say FBO I'm not interested in anything he has to sell.
and what in the RNA literature convince you to order 1. I hope its not the HP gain crap.
I ran the factory ECU on my 81 shorty 340-6 ect for a while. Changed to a MSD and it was a world of difference. I have a spare 6AL Id sell for a decent price.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 04:46 AM
Did you adjust anything when you added the timing? If you added it and did nothing else, yeah it's going to make it worse..
How did you set the idle mixture screws?
Posted By: 7e5dartsport
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 05:06 AM
from what you are saying, what catches my attention is that you say the previous carb was pig rich. now if the plugs are back and sooty, couldnt the popping be eliminated from a change to fresh plugs?
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 05:59 AM
The reason I ordered the Rev-n-ator was not the horse power claims. I wanted simple and plug n play with my current set-up that would be reliable and work well. All of which from what I read fits the product.
Plugs look good. The eddy came off last summer and the 3310 went on. It was good out of the box but would pop now and again.
Knowing my old distributor looked tired inside and my plug wires where also not the best quality I figured to clean the ignition system up first and go from there. Now it seems to be worse.
As far as idle mixture screws I was taught to set them for max rpm then back them out just a little stopping before the rpm starts to drop.
I'll try bumping the timing back up to 18 initial and resetting the idle mixture.
Currently pulls about 9-10" of vacuum at idle. Worth playing with the power valve?
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 06:18 AM
Quote:
The reason I ordered the Rev-n-ator was not the horse power claims. I wanted simple and plug n play with my current set-up that would be reliable and work well. All of which from what I read fits the product.
I remember reading the article written by Dunnick Racing about the Rev-N-Nator. I even started a thread on the HP differences shown in the dyno sheet. I was doubtful about it but liked the idea of the LED display and the Rev limiter. I bought one but it made my detonation problems worse. Since then I've made other changes and reinstalled the Rev box. The car runs great with it.
Posted By: Sixgun
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 06:27 AM
Old school, " arich idle mixture is much less likely to lean out on tip in"
open the mixtures 1/4 maybe even 1/2 turn and see if it fixes anything.
The # 35 squirter may not work any better without the 50cc pump and cam to supply it.
Your idle mixtures should actually be tuned to max vacuum hot, idling, with a vacuum gauge.
Shorty has a good point about MSDs, they "make" an engine more tolerant to transient "lean/rich" events with the multi spark capability lighting marginal mixtures reliably, as well as more spark energy to the plug than a lot of ignitions out there.
Power valve is worth looking at, and should be selected at a rating of 2" of vacuum below your best hot idle achievable vacuum.(you get 9,you buy and install a #70)so it stays shut above 7" and opens quickly to ease transition from isle circuit to power as soon as you hit the throttle and vac drops below 7.
Hope this helps.Case
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 09:44 AM
When I turn my idle mixture screws, I watch the Air/Fuel guage to assess what effects each 1/8 turn has. It is odd that you can turn almost a full turn and see so little change but then all hell breaks loose sometimes at only the tiniest adjustment.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 05:51 PM
2,000 and up probably means you are already on the main circuit. That would seem to indicate that the issue is with the idle and low speed transition. I'm thinking the slot needs more fuel.
That is, IF, the issue is carb related.
Posted By: Dcuda69
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 06:12 PM
What happens if you drop it in gear(assuming auto trans?)and do a little brake stand?(that will load the ignition system)If it pops or misses then,I would lean towards plugs,coil,etc, I thought I saw/heard a miss on your video. You could also try misting some water on the dist/wires/etc and then load it down and look for fireworks.I know you said the wires and stuff were new but you didn't mention plugs. Just some thoughts, Good luck!
Posted By: TJP
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/02/14 09:21 PM
Quote:
2,000 and up probably means you are already on the main circuit. That would seem to indicate that the issue is with the idle and low speed transition. I'm thinking the slot needs more fuel.
That is, IF, the issue is carb related.
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/05/14 06:13 AM
Well back to the 31 Shooter and got the car all warmed up to temp and put the vacuum gauge on it.
Was bumping between 9-10" for the most part reset the idle mixture screws and now it holds more steady at 10".
A quick throttle stab will still result in a pop -I nead ear plugs gonna go deaf if I don't solve this!-
I also tried running the idle mixture screws way out and with no change.
Going to look at the power valve next. Engine was too hot and I was too frustrated. Fuel injection sure sounds nice right now.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/05/14 07:50 AM
I like that you keep at it. Giving up and admitting defeat really sucks! I have been dealing with various obstacles over the years and sometimes stuff just seems UNfixable.
Did I read that you have tried different carburetors that had the same result?
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/05/14 11:47 PM
Give it all the total it can take loose the vac advance if set that way and get at least a180 stat in there to heat it upI think you are fighting yourself by ear tuning it in garage wait until you can drive it and really heat it up
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/06/14 05:28 AM
I already run a 180 t-stat.
The Edelbrock once set didn't pop bak at me just have what I think was some form of internal fuel leakage.
So I haven't tried any other carbs but I keep looking at the 750 Street Demon just don't know anyone running one on a big block.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/06/14 04:37 PM
The Street Demon will be the next carb on my Barracuda. And it will replace the 3310 that is on there now.
Posted By: Junky
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/06/14 08:09 PM
I'm running the 383 big block with some modifications. However, my 3310 needed to be really richened up to take a stumble out of it. Try this: Go to the biggest shooter and the green or blue accelerator pump cam and see if it goes away. It may run too rich, but what the hay. Then at least you'll know if it's the carb being lean. Work backward from there if the "pop" is gone. Summery: Biggest shooter, fastest shooting accelerator cam and 18 degrees timing. Don't forget to look for vacuum leaks. If that doesn't help, wont that at least tell you it isn't the carb? Just saying.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/06/14 08:13 PM
Quote:
I'm running the 383 big block with some modifications. However, my 3310 needed to be really richened up to take a stumble out of it. Try this: Go to the biggest shooter and the green or blue accelerator pump cam and see if it goes away. It may run too rich, but what the hay. Then at least you'll know if it's the carb being lean. Work backward from there if the "pop" is gone. Summery: Biggest shooter, fastest shooting accelerator cam and 18 degrees timing. Don't forget to look for vacuum leaks. If that doesn't help, wont that at least tell you it isn't the carb? Just saying.
And along with that, I would recommend a 9.5 or so power valve. Every 3310 I have ever messed with worked best with the quickest opening power valve, sometimes even a 10.5.
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/18/14 06:15 AM
Tried an 8.5 power valve as it's what I had. Still backfired through the carb but not as easily or often.
Again only on a quick throttle stab. Also bumped the timing up to 18 initial with no help.
Pulled the 8.5 power valve and went with the "Holley Reccomended" 4.5 -as per Holley as I pull 10" of vacuum. Obviously this made it worse.
Pulling the power valve I noticed a few beads of what I think might very well be water on the metering block. -What else would make bead droplets?- Starting to think I have some condensation in the tank from winter storage. The tank is down around 1/8 so going to get some methyl hydrate and fresh fuel and try again.
I also tried the edelbrock again. The car ran horrible even at an idle compared to the 3310. Much more shake and it had a stumble to bring the rpm up slowly no matter the accelerator pump position. Still had backfiring through the carb which is why I am really thinking I may have water in the tank.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/18/14 06:23 AM
I somehow got water in the tank of my 74 FrankenDuster several years ago, The car would run but bog and stall when I leaned on it. It never backfired. I drained the tank and what came out sorta looked like Italian salad dressing!
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/18/14 07:46 AM
My dad remembers working on a 440 motorhome years ago that had water in the fuel. He said it was backfiring so bad when they had the dog house off he was worried it was going to burn the interior down.
It's worth a try anyways. Can't find any vacuum leaks. Runs great otherwise no noises no misses no surging idle and can hold high rpm without missing a beat. It's doing this on 2 different carbs.
I have all new wires, new distributor as well. Waiting for my Rev-n-ator and then it will also get a new MSD coil so running out of options otherwise.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/18/14 04:51 PM
Have you actually had the chance to drive the car so that the engine could be put under load since the popping has come up? If a cylinder was partly fouled, freewheeling the engine may not clear it.
Maybe try a new set of plugs when you can drive the car. I have had a fouled cylinder back fire when revved, but would idle okay.
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/18/14 05:04 PM
I would put a faster (bigger) accelerator pump cam on it and 37 squirters. also put at least a 7.5 power valve in your cam is small and 4.5 is for huge low vacuum cams. make sure accelerator pump is adjusted correctly so it provides a shot of fuel as soon as possible!
New ethonal fuels need lots of stable when car is sitting they draw water like crazy.
Jetting stock is usually good if 72's you can try 74 but no larger.
Your problem is the transition from the idle circuit to the high speed. causing a monentary lean condition before the jets take over.
The power valve is one of the things designed to help that. as you quickly open the throttle vacuum drops and the power valve opens allowing extra fuel in to help in that transition as do the accelerator squirters. the lower the number of the power valve the later it opens. pop. your vacuum sneaking up on the throttle with that mild cam my be way up to 14 or more!
So you need a little more fuel quicker the power valves and accelerator pump is the way to get it. you could slow down advance curve a smidge (slightly heavier springs) as long as you get 35 to 38 total (vacuum advance unhooked) by 3200 or so maybe even run less initial depending on the amount of advance in the distributor.
Posted By: PossessedDuster
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/19/14 05:35 AM
No chance of driving it until late April early May -snow sucks-
I did have a 35 shooter on it as one of the first changes with no help.
I am going to swap the 8.5 power valve back in as it did seem to have a nicer curb idle and the back firing was far less. I've never tried driving it with vacuum gauge on it but may have to make a point of it this summer.
Never played with accel pump cams before. There have been a few recommendations on what to try just haven't picked one.
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: 3310 Jet Reccomendations - 02/19/14 10:25 PM
Over the road my make things different as load slows down the free reving!
