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Mopar = Black Sabbath and Alice In Chains

LS = Justin Beiber and Britney Spears

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There is a place for everything.
There is a place in my heart for old school muscle, which is why my Plymouth will stay carbed, never have AC, overdrive, etc.

But in terms of modern, affordable performance, you can't beat the LS platform. Plentiful in boneyards, ton of aftermarket and factory support. They make good power out of the box, and can make big power with some effort. For someone looking to go EFI, roller cam, overdrive...this is the most logical option....at least it's still American....haha

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OD isnt a bad thing...I went with a 518 trans for
the road and its still a normal 727 for the track...
its in my Rampage.. but its a dual purpose ride...
I'm looking at a modern hemi to put in if I can find
one at a decent price.. if I do it I might even twin
turbo it just for kicks... I dont need anything over
600HP

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There is a place for everything.
There is a place in my heart for old school muscle, which is why my Plymouth will stay carbed, never have AC, overdrive, etc.

But in terms of modern, affordable performance, you can't beat the LS platform. Plentiful in boneyards, ton of aftermarket and factory support. They make good power out of the box, and can make big power with some effort. For someone looking to go EFI, roller cam, overdrive...this is the most logical option....at least it's still American....haha

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OD isnt a bad thing...I went with a 518 trans for
the road and its still a normal 727 for the track...
its in my Rampage.. but its a dual purpose ride...
I'm looking at a modern hemi to put in if I can find
one at a decent price.. if I do it I might even twin
turbo it just for kicks... I dont need anything over
600HP

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There is a place for everything.
There is a place in my heart for old school muscle, which is why my Plymouth will stay carbed, never have AC, overdrive, etc.

But in terms of modern, affordable performance, you can't beat the LS platform. Plentiful in boneyards, ton of aftermarket and factory support. They make good power out of the box, and can make big power with some effort. For someone looking to go EFI, roller cam, overdrive...this is the most logical option....at least it's still American....haha

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OD isnt a bad thing...I went with a 518 trans for
the road and its still a normal 727 for the track...
its in my Rampage.. but its a dual purpose ride...
I'm looking at a modern hemi to put in if I can find
one at a decent price.. if I do it I might even twin
turbo it just for kicks... I dont need anything over
600HP

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Got mine for 300. Broken rod. Matt

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Did it tear up the block... I wont mind paying more
for a intact(running 5.7) but then I'd go through it
for some better parts

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Hey STREETWIZE! You are right!!! I'am a true diehard mopar guy, but in the last 10+ years worked on the LS MOTORS!! Have you look at the LS-7 head? I have one hear in garage! On a 4.125 bore @.400 lift it flows 303cfm!!!!!! Find another head to match that!!! Someone needs to make one fit the, "LA" block!!! Would need to be biger port foe the big block!! I still the more development needs to be done for a "B" engine block!!!! Combinatoin's A good aftermarket black, without side rails, more like a big block chevy!! And put a real oil pan on it, and it will make more power!!! Why due you think that Richard Maskins is making a block for the 'LS" without side rails!!!

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5.7 eagle on a 4 inch bore goes 275 Cfm.
Don't know about the 6.1 or Apache but I think they would be right with the LS7.

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I see cheap gen 3 motors all the time on craigslist,junkyard are full of trucks with them,its the aftermarket crap that you have to sell you soul to the devil and mortgage the house to afford parts.its nothing but aftermarket greed.i see aftermarket carb intakes on ebay for 900 bucks,really?and the fuel/ignition management technology is ridiculously expensive,thats stickin it right up our tailpipes.its gaining popularity,but the manufacturers still see hemi=thick wallet.hopefully parts will someday be at a comparable price before everybody that's not wealthy walks away.....

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I hear ya on the aftermarket stuff.. I will build
my own intake if I stay with a carb... for $900 I
can build a whole lot of intake... I might even stay
with the stock heads or MAYBE look at the aftermarket

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There is a place for everything.
There is a place in my heart for old school muscle, which is why my Plymouth will stay carbed, never have AC, overdrive, etc.

But in terms of modern, affordable performance, you can't beat the LS platform. Plentiful in boneyards, ton of aftermarket and factory support. They make good power out of the box, and can make big power with some effort. For someone looking to go EFI, roller cam, overdrive...this is the most logical option....at least it's still American....haha

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OD isnt a bad thing...I went with a 518 trans for
the road and its still a normal 727 for the track...
its in my Rampage.. but its a dual purpose ride...
I'm looking at a modern hemi to put in if I can find
one at a decent price.. if I do it I might even twin
turbo it just for kicks... I dont need anything over
600HP

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Got mine for 300. Broken rod. Matt

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Did it tear up the block... I wont mind paying more
for a intact(running 5.7) but then I'd go through it
for some better parts

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You guys kill me. If everyone was putting a hemi in everything I'll bet everyone would be happy. If we had the factory support like the LS we would be having this conversation.
Hell I'll bet that if we had a quarter of the support the LS has the hemi would be king.
The LS is a great engine that's why mopar build the hemi similar to it. Take the heads of and have a look.
The LS program is basically idiot proof. Go fast with not too much thinking.
Matt

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Look at all the parts they have available. We will never have this kind of support for anything Mopar. All Ma is interested in is selling new cars.

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You guys kill me. If everyone was putting a hemi in everything I'll bet everyone would be happy. If we had the factory support like the LS we would be having this conversation.
Hell I'll bet that if we had a quarter of the support the LS has the hemi would be king.
The LS is a great engine that's why mopar build the hemi similar to it. Take the heads of and have a look.
The LS program is basically idiot proof. Go fast with not too much thinking.
Matt

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Look at all the parts they have available. We will never have this kind of support for anything Mopar. All Ma is interested in is selling new cars.

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Yes a agree and it probably won't change.
I do believe the hemi head is superior to the LS.
Very little short turn + high speed port.
Everything being equal in a shootout LS vs Hemi. I believe the Hemi would make more power.

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@ Tim,

Whare are you in NC? we're neighbors we got to meet up sometime.

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I'm in Kannapolis about 30miles N of Charlotte You need to bring the Rocky up to the cruise in here that starts in March, people will love that and we need more Mopars lol

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@ Tim,

Whare are you in NC? we're neighbors we got to meet up sometime.

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I'm in Kannapolis about 30miles N of Charlotte You need to bring the Rocky up to the cruise in here that starts in March, people will love that and we need more Mopars lol

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I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

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I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

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Ron I agree, but we're dinosaurs. I grew up with Mopars, my Uncles had them. Plus in the late 70's they could be bought cheap. But what about now? Honestly, if you were young with limited funds and bit by the go fast bug could you afford Mopars? You can buy a 80-90's Camaro for almost nothing. Add a junk yard LS, a turbo and go fast cheap! Plus there are a ton of aftermarket parts for them. How about the new Hemi? How many aftermarket blocks have you seen? Heads? Intakes?Engine controllers? You get my point.

Please don't take me wrong, I love my Mopars and have NEVER owned a GM. But.....if I were starting over with nothing and wanted to go fast it probably wouldn't be a Mopar. I wouldn't be able to afford them.

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Your right.... a LOT of Mopar people have that
dinosaur mentality ... I'm all Mopar but to say I
would never put a modern hemi in a older car is down
right backwards... most of the dinosaur guys would
say... "it doesnt look right" BULL.. its just different..
if I find one its going into something that I own..
I might even pull that big heavy BB out of my 38 Ply
and put a new hemi in it with OD and all... Hell I'm
old and I still look at what goes fast and cheap is
a plus, so the new hemi does fall into that.. sure
you can start throwing bucks at it to go faster but
stock in a light car will stomp on MOST BB on the street

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I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

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Ron I agree, but we're dinosaurs. I grew up with Mopars, my Uncles had them. Plus in the late 70's they could be bought cheap. But what about now? Honestly, if you were young with limited funds and bit by the go fast bug could you afford Mopars? You can buy a 80-90's Camaro for almost nothing. Add a junk yard LS, a turbo and go fast cheap! Plus there are a ton of aftermarket parts for them. How about the new Hemi? How many aftermarket blocks have you seen? Heads? Intakes?Engine controllers? You get my point.

Please don't take me wrong, I love my Mopars and have NEVER owned a GM. But.....if I were starting over with nothing and wanted to go fast it probably wouldn't be a Mopar. I wouldn't be able to afford them.

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I agree as you are right and I wont disagree that I am an old dinosaur. But I love what I grew up with and the era I consider to be lucky to have grown up in. I dont blame young kids today for building and driving what they can afford as thats basically what we did. I am glad some young ones like my son have access to older Mopars and the parts to build one pretty cheap. I have a fair amount of parts around for our older Mopars but my brother has 10 times what I have and I try to get as many of the youngsters in my family and friends to be around them and help them try to keep them alive with the younger crowd. Heck even my youngest had an SRT4 Neon as he liked it because he was growing up in this era and his friends had some. I helped him put it in the 12's but I am glad my older boy still has my old 11 second Dart and plans to keep it even though he just got married.

But I know I am stuck in the 60's and 70's when it comes to my hot rods and always will be. I do respect what anyone likes and builds but to be honest I dont follow anything about the LS engines because they did not come in 60's muscle cars. That dont mean I dont respect them as I know many can spank me back to the 60's but I dont care. I will say if I did get interest to build a new Hemi I would put it in a newer car as I just cant get into modern engines in old muscle cars. Thats just me but I understand to each his (or her) own. Ron

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I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

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Ron I agree, but we're dinosaurs. I grew up with Mopars, my Uncles had them. Plus in the late 70's they could be bought cheap. But what about now? Honestly, if you were young with limited funds and bit by the go fast bug could you afford Mopars? You can buy a 80-90's Camaro for almost nothing. Add a junk yard LS, a turbo and go fast cheap! Plus there are a ton of aftermarket parts for them. How about the new Hemi? How many aftermarket blocks have you seen? Heads? Intakes?Engine controllers? You get my point.

Please don't take me wrong, I love my Mopars and have NEVER owned a GM. But.....if I were starting over with nothing and wanted to go fast it probably wouldn't be a Mopar. I wouldn't be able to afford them.

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Your right.... a LOT of Mopar people have that
dinosaur mentality ... I'm all Mopar but to say I
would never put a modern hemi in a older car is down
right backwards... most of the dinosaur guys would
say... "it doesnt look right" BULL.. its just different..
if I find one its going into something that I own..
I might even pull that big heavy BB out of my 38 Ply
and put a new hemi in it with OD and all... Hell I'm
old and I still look at what goes fast and cheap is
a plus, so the new hemi does fall into that.. sure
you can start throwing bucks at it to go faster but
stock in a light car will stomp on MOST BB on the street

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This talk of what is the cheapest,,,some say they are going to take out their current motor and replace it with a G3/LS because it's 'cheaper'..?? If you leave the motor in that you have now= NO COST!! I think there are a LOT of people that want a G3, but don't want it to look like they are 'betraying' their past history as a Mopar person. I know it was hard for me to finally admit that the G3 is a much better power producer than the normal LA with budget heads/parts. In fact, I have been telling a lot of my local small block Chevy dirt track racers to start thinking into the future, and seriously look at the LS motors,,,they are coming.

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Some dirt track forum has a thread about the LS Oiling issues. It refers to RPM.
Seems they have the same problem as the G3.
Matt

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I think I heard them say on horse power tv this morning that Harland Sharp is making rocker arms for the Gen 3 hemi. Is this new or have they been out for a while?

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They made them 4 years ago, and I have yet to see a set. Rumor is they were about $2k for a set....This whole Gen3 Hemi is really expensive. From the stroker kits to the ignition, to the valve train. More and more, I can build a big inch stump puller for a lot less. Notice the crappy hold downs too. The SDC ones are way better. Steff did it right..

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I think I heard them say on horse power tv this morning that Harland Sharp is making rocker arms for the Gen 3 hemi. Is this new or have they been out for a while?

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They made them 4 years ago, and I have yet to see a set. Rumor is they were about $2k for a set....This whole Gen3 Hemi is really expensive. From the stroker kits to the ignition, to the valve train. More and more, I can build a big inch stump puller for a lot less. Notice the crappy hold downs too. The SDC ones are way better. Steff did it right..

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The geometry looks all wrong with the SDC rockers...
looks up way to high ... but since I havent measured it
I dont know for fact

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No offense to the guys saying this because I understand your point, but to compare the disparity between the LS and Gen III Hemi engines vs B/RB engines (and any other popular performance engine from the musclecar era) to the disparity between the 60s performance engines and the flatheads is just plain stupid.

WOW, LS guys have heads that flow 400 cfm? So do we, why don't you go buy a pair and bolt them on? A company called Brodix makes them, maybe you've heard of them? Too expensive? Edelbrock makes a nice cheap head that can get there too with some serious work. And theres another company called Indy that makes good heads for us.

They have aftermarket blocks? Those bastards! But so do we. And the blocks that they have look more expensive than ours. Sorry guys, this is turning into a thread of guys who sit around and gripe about how good the LS engines are and how we get no support from the aftermarket. Maybe we don't have it the best but it's not that bad and its the best its ever been. They do it on the mustang forums too, I swear there are Ford guys who believe that the 98-02 F body LS1 cars ran 12.80s stock. Why even turn this into an LS1 vs Gen 3 Hemi deal when we can make very good power with a B/RB engine. Thats hardly a Flathead Ford complex.

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No offense to the guys saying this because I understand your point, but to compare the disparity between the LS and Gen III Hemi engines vs B/RB engines (and any other popular performance engine from the musclecar era) to the disparity between the 60s performance engines and the flatheads is just plain stupid.

WOW, LS guys have heads that flow 400 cfm? So do we, why don't you go buy a pair and bolt them on? A company called Brodix makes them, maybe you've heard of them? Too expensive? Edelbrock makes a nice cheap head that can get there too with some serious work. And theres another company called Indy that makes good heads for us.

They have aftermarket blocks? Those bastards! But so do we. And the blocks that they have look more expensive than ours. Sorry guys, this is turning into a thread of guys who sit around and gripe about how good the LS engines are and how we get no support from the aftermarket. Maybe we don't have it the best but it's not that bad and its the best its ever been. They do it on the mustang forums too, I swear there are Ford guys who believe that the 98-02 F body LS1 cars ran 12.80s stock. Why even turn this into an LS1 vs Gen 3 Hemi deal when we can make very good power with a B/RB engine. Thats hardly a Flathead Ford complex.

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nobody said BB mopes don't make power, can a BB make 650hp with stock rockers,lifters, OEM head castings,OEM intake and run great on pump gas? Can it do it without a distributor? Haha nope......

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No offense to the guys saying this because I understand your point, but to compare the disparity between the LS and Gen III Hemi engines vs B/RB engines (and any other popular performance engine from the musclecar era) to the disparity between the 60s performance engines and the flatheads is just plain stupid.

WOW, LS guys have heads that flow 400 cfm? So do we, why don't you go buy a pair and bolt them on? A company called Brodix makes them, maybe you've heard of them? Too expensive? Edelbrock makes a nice cheap head that can get there too with some serious work. And theres another company called Indy that makes good heads for us.

They have aftermarket blocks? Those bastards! But so do we. And the blocks that they have look more expensive than ours. Sorry guys, this is turning into a thread of guys who sit around and gripe about how good the LS engines are and how we get no support from the aftermarket. Maybe we don't have it the best but it's not that bad and its the best its ever been. They do it on the mustang forums too, I swear there are Ford guys who believe that the 98-02 F body LS1 cars ran 12.80s stock. Why even turn this into an LS1 vs Gen 3 Hemi deal when we can make very good power with a B/RB engine. Thats hardly a Flathead Ford complex.

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nobody said BB mopes don't make power, can a BB make 650hp with stock rockers,lifters, OEM head castings,OEM intake and run great on pump gas? Can it do it without a distributor? Haha nope......

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I haven't seen many 650 hp LS engines with stock intakes, rockers, lifters, and untouched heads. Unless you're talking about doing this with an LS7, in which case at that kind of price: Hemi. They're pretty tricked out when they're making that kind of power, just like any engine. The point is you can go as fast or faster, its in no way comparable to a flat head Ford.

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Some of you guys need to go price this stuff.
An ls 7 is about 13000 for just the engine, an
Ls3 or 6.2 is about 9000, just the engine.
Chrysler sells the 6.1 for 9000 with everything
you need to make it run except the fuel pump.
I think you can buy just the 6.1 for around 7500.
Mopar looks cheaper to me if you start with
new stuff.

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You guys kill me. If everyone was putting a hemi in everything I'll bet everyone would be happy. If we had the factory support like the LS we would be having this conversation.
Hell I'll bet that if we had a quarter of the support the LS has the hemi would be king.
The LS is a great engine that's why mopar build the hemi similar to it. Take the heads of and have a look.
The LS program is basically idiot proof. Go fast with not too much thinking.
Matt

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Look at all the parts they have available. We will never have this kind of support for anything Mopar. All Ma is interested in is selling new cars.

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Can`t stand GM PERIOD...............Everyone`s got one except for a few and myself and just because we don`t have all of the support you speak of doesn`t mean we need to be a trader and sell out. At the track I lay down decent numbers and make guys scratch their heads(mostly gm clucks)and ask me how much "spray" I`m using.........too funny. Mopar or no car PERIOD..............

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Some of you guys need to go price this stuff.
An ls 7 is about 13000 for just the engine, an
Ls3 or 6.2 is about 9000, just the engine.
Chrysler sells the 6.1 for 9000 with everything
you need to make it run except the fuel pump.
I think you can buy just the 6.1 for around 7500.
Mopar looks cheaper to me if you start with
new stuff.

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There are no more factory 6.1 being produced. You will need to purchase the 6.4 which in my opinion is a better block.
This year the heavy duty rams have the 6.4. There should be cores available soon.
Matt

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Streetwize:
Good thread,

I wonder if it's really more just the cost, the relative ease of tuning (admit it laptop tuning on the chassis dyno is much easier) or what....

I'm vexed because I have an 06 LS2 powered Trailblazer SS and it's hard not to like. I actually toyed with building a 4.125 stroke 427 iron block with trick flow heads for it....practically a turn key 550 horse daily driver with gobs of trailer pulling torque,

I guess I can justify it to myself only because I'd use it to pull my Mopars to the track, lol. Ironically with just a tune and a few bolt ons it's faster than the 67 440 GTX I had in high school

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Add that your sporty Trailblazer SS weighs around 4800+lbs race weight, roughly around 1000lbs more than your 1967 GTX did.