Hearing this more and more....

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No offense to the guys saying this because I understand your point, but to compare the disparity between the LS and Gen III Hemi engines vs B/RB engines (and any other popular performance engine from the musclecar era) to the disparity between the 60s performance engines and the flatheads is just plain stupid.

WOW, LS guys have heads that flow 400 cfm? So do we, why don't you go buy a pair and bolt them on? A company called Brodix makes them, maybe you've heard of them? Too expensive? Edelbrock makes a nice cheap head that can get there too with some serious work. And theres another company called Indy that makes good heads for us.

They have aftermarket blocks? Those bastards! But so do we. And the blocks that they have look more expensive than ours. Sorry guys, this is turning into a thread of guys who sit around and gripe about how good the LS engines are and how we get no support from the aftermarket. Maybe we don't have it the best but it's not that bad and its the best its ever been. They do it on the mustang forums too, I swear there are Ford guys who believe that the 98-02 F body LS1 cars ran 12.80s stock. Why even turn this into an LS1 vs Gen 3 Hemi deal when we can make very good power with a B/RB engine. Thats hardly a Flathead Ford complex.

nobody said BB mopes don't make power, can a BB make 650hp with stock rockers,lifters, OEM head castings,OEM intake and run great on pump gas? Can it do it without a distributor? Haha nope......

I haven't seen many 650 hp LS engines with stock intakes, rockers, lifters, and untouched heads. Unless you're talking about doing this with an LS7, in which case at that kind of price: Hemi. They're pretty tricked out when they're making that kind of power, just like any engine. The point is you can go as fast or faster, its in no way comparable to a flat head Ford.

I wasn't using an LS as a comparison, I was talking Gen III Hemi. Honestly the LS has nothing on a Gen III when it comes to making hp N/A with factory parts. An LS can HANDLE more power under boost with factory parts. When you can get in the 365cfm at .600 lift range with stock valves and a $700 port job what's not to like? Gen III Hemis are a jewel that we need to embrace.

Posted By: dwayne welder

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/18/14 10:24 PM

Hey STREETWIZE! You are right!!! I'am a true diehard mopar guy, but in the last 10+ years worked on the LS MOTORS!! Have you look at the LS-7 head? I have one hear in garage! On a 4.125 bore @.400 lift it flows 303cfm!!!!!! Find another head to match that!!! Someone needs to make one fit the, "LA" block!!! Would need to be biger port foe the big block!! I still the more development needs to be done for a "B" engine block!!!! Combinatoin's A good aftermarket black, without side rails, more like a big block chevy!! And put a real oil pan on it, and it will make more power!!! Why due you think that Richard Maskins is making a block for the 'LS" without side rails!!!

Posted By: dwayne welder

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/18/14 10:27 PM

Sorry for some missed spelling! Was typing to fast!!

Posted By: dakotawilly

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/18/14 10:41 PM

I see cheap gen 3 motors all the time on craigslist,junkyard are full of trucks with them,its the aftermarket crap that you have to sell you soul to the devil and mortgage the house to afford parts.its nothing but aftermarket greed.i see aftermarket carb intakes on ebay for 900 bucks,really?and the fuel/ignition management technology is ridiculously expensive,thats stickin it right up our tailpipes.its gaining popularity,but the manufacturers still see hemi=thick wallet.hopefully parts will someday be at a comparable price before everybody that's not wealthy walks away.....

Posted By: MattW

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/18/14 11:06 PM

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Hey STREETWIZE! You are right!!! I'am a true diehard mopar guy, but in the last 10+ years worked on the LS MOTORS!! Have you look at the LS-7 head? I have one hear in garage! On a 4.125 bore @.400 lift it flows 303cfm!!!!!! Find another head to match that!!! Someone needs to make one fit the, "LA" block!!! Would need to be biger port foe the big block!! I still the more development needs to be done for a "B" engine block!!!! Combinatoin's A good aftermarket black, without side rails, more like a big block chevy!! And put a real oil pan on it, and it will make more power!!! Why due you think that Richard Maskins is making a block for the 'LS" without side rails!!!

5.7 eagle on a 4 inch bore goes 275 Cfm.
Don't know about the 6.1 or Apache but I think they would be right with the LS7.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/18/14 11:42 PM

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I see cheap gen 3 motors all the time on craigslist,junkyard are full of trucks with them,its the aftermarket crap that you have to sell you soul to the devil and mortgage the house to afford parts.its nothing but aftermarket greed.i see aftermarket carb intakes on ebay for 900 bucks,really?and the fuel/ignition management technology is ridiculously expensive,thats stickin it right up our tailpipes.its gaining popularity,but the manufacturers still see hemi=thick wallet.hopefully parts will someday be at a comparable price before everybody that's not wealthy walks away.....

I hear ya on the aftermarket stuff.. I will build
my own intake if I stay with a carb... for $900 I
can build a whole lot of intake... I might even stay
with the stock heads or MAYBE look at the aftermarket

Posted By: AAR-B4

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/18/14 11:44 PM

Cheaper to build a Chevy will continue to be true.
Hod Rod magazine produced 1200 hp by adding twin turbos to junkyard 5.3 LS.
A gen 3 would have been shrapnel.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/18/14 11:54 PM

A lil Birdy told me he just got his 5.7l heads back from Arrington and they flowed 337cfm

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 12:36 AM

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You guys kill me. If everyone was putting a hemi in everything I'll bet everyone would be happy. If we had the factory support like the LS we would be having this conversation.
Hell I'll bet that if we had a quarter of the support the LS has the hemi would be king.
The LS is a great engine that's why mopar build the hemi similar to it. Take the heads of and have a look.
The LS program is basically idiot proof. Go fast with not too much thinking.
Matt

Look at all the parts they have available. We will never have this kind of support for anything Mopar. All Ma is interested in is selling new cars.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 12:43 AM

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You guys kill me. If everyone was putting a hemi in everything I'll bet everyone would be happy. If we had the factory support like the LS we would be having this conversation.
Hell I'll bet that if we had a quarter of the support the LS has the hemi would be king.
The LS is a great engine that's why mopar build the hemi similar to it. Take the heads of and have a look.
The LS program is basically idiot proof. Go fast with not too much thinking.
Matt

Look at all the parts they have available. We will never have this kind of support for anything Mopar. All Ma is interested in is selling new cars.

Yes a agree and it probably won't change.
I do believe the hemi head is superior to the LS.
Very little short turn + high speed port.
Everything being equal in a shootout LS vs Hemi. I believe the Hemi would make more power.

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 01:24 AM

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@ Tim,

Whare are you in NC? we're neighbors we got to meet up sometime.

I'm in Kannapolis about 30miles N of Charlotte

You need to bring the Rocky up to the cruise in here that starts in March, people will love that and we need more Mopars lol

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 01:37 AM

I have a ls7 cnced head in my shop and it went 396 on my bench. My 5.7 heads on my engine after i ported them go 345, up from 300 stock

Posted By: j.mcconnell

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 02:16 AM

Mopar, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two.

You could have a 650hp turbo LS and lockup OD 4l80e to put behind it for $2500 including tuning software.

My next engine will be a 360 but that's only because I have money invested in a small block already and will reuse some/most of that. If I could go back 5-10 years and start over...,.,

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@ Tim,

Whare are you in NC? we're neighbors we got to meet up sometime.

I'm in Kannapolis about 30miles N of Charlotte You need to bring the Rocky up to the cruise in here that starts in March, people will love that and we need more Mopars lol

I'll come up from S. Charlotte / Ballantyne.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 02:18 AM

I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

Posted By: gch

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 04:21 AM

The LS is a fine motor and makes a ton of power when done right.It does not belong in a mopar but I don't mind seeing them in street rods,old vettes,or fox mustangs.I give them props for playing on a world stage with a pushrod motor.

I am ok with being frowned upon for my old mopar.I like it that way.I didn't build it to please anyone but me.

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 05:36 AM

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I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

Ron I agree, but we're dinosaurs. I grew up with Mopars, my Uncles had them. Plus in the late 70's they could be bought cheap. But what about now? Honestly, if you were young with limited funds and bit by the go fast bug could you afford Mopars? You can buy a 80-90's Camaro for almost nothing. Add a junk yard LS, a turbo and go fast cheap! Plus there are a ton of aftermarket parts for them. How about the new Hemi? How many aftermarket blocks have you seen? Heads? Intakes?Engine controllers? You get my point.

Please don't take me wrong, I love my Mopars and have NEVER owned a GM. But.....if I were starting over with nothing and wanted to go fast it probably wouldn't be a Mopar. I wouldn't be able to afford them.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 06:27 AM

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I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

Ron I agree, but we're dinosaurs. I grew up with Mopars, my Uncles had them. Plus in the late 70's they could be bought cheap. But what about now? Honestly, if you were young with limited funds and bit by the go fast bug could you afford Mopars? You can buy a 80-90's Camaro for almost nothing. Add a junk yard LS, a turbo and go fast cheap! Plus there are a ton of aftermarket parts for them. How about the new Hemi? How many aftermarket blocks have you seen? Heads? Intakes?Engine controllers? You get my point.

Please don't take me wrong, I love my Mopars and have NEVER owned a GM. But.....if I were starting over with nothing and wanted to go fast it probably wouldn't be a Mopar. I wouldn't be able to afford them.

Your right.... a LOT of Mopar people have that
dinosaur mentality ... I'm all Mopar but to say I
would never put a modern hemi in a older car is down
right backwards... most of the dinosaur guys would
say... "it doesnt look right" BULL.. its just different..
if I find one its going into something that I own..
I might even pull that big heavy BB out of my 38 Ply
and put a new hemi in it with OD and all... Hell I'm
old and I still look at what goes fast and cheap is
a plus, so the new hemi does fall into that.. sure
you can start throwing bucks at it to go faster but
stock in a light car will stomp on MOST BB on the street

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 06:43 AM

MrP, I'd love to build a new FI Gen 3 Hemi to replace the 408 in my Dart, but the support is just not there. The lack of parts, both factory and aftermarket. The lack of quality information, the guys that know aren't talking. Also I'm not hung up on how it looks as long as it makes power.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 08:19 AM

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I say who cares ? Sure as heck not me as I will never put a Chevy eng in a Mopar to start with. Thats because I like 60's and 70's muscle cars and the LS whatever you guys are talking about is not even in my vocabulary. Now the LS6 Chevell 454 is a nice 70 muscle car eng and I like it in a Chevy. Myself I dont like putting new modern engines in old 60's and 70's muscle cars. The guys that are into the new stuff including that LS whatever eng then good for them but not me. If I see a 69 Camaro with a new modern GM eng at the track or a car show I dont even look at it. Ron

Ron I agree, but we're dinosaurs. I grew up with Mopars, my Uncles had them. Plus in the late 70's they could be bought cheap. But what about now? Honestly, if you were young with limited funds and bit by the go fast bug could you afford Mopars? You can buy a 80-90's Camaro for almost nothing. Add a junk yard LS, a turbo and go fast cheap! Plus there are a ton of aftermarket parts for them. How about the new Hemi? How many aftermarket blocks have you seen? Heads? Intakes?Engine controllers? You get my point.

Please don't take me wrong, I love my Mopars and have NEVER owned a GM. But.....if I were starting over with nothing and wanted to go fast it probably wouldn't be a Mopar. I wouldn't be able to afford them.

I agree as you are right and I wont disagree that I am an old dinosaur. But I love what I grew up with and the era I consider to be lucky to have grown up in. I dont blame young kids today for building and driving what they can afford as thats basically what we did. I am glad some young ones like my son have access to older Mopars and the parts to build one pretty cheap. I have a fair amount of parts around for our older Mopars but my brother has 10 times what I have and I try to get as many of the youngsters in my family and friends to be around them and help them try to keep them alive with the younger crowd. Heck even my youngest had an SRT4 Neon as he liked it because he was growing up in this era and his friends had some. I helped him put it in the 12's but I am glad my older boy still has my old 11 second Dart and plans to keep it even though he just got married.

But I know I am stuck in the 60's and 70's when it comes to my hot rods and always will be. I do respect what anyone likes and builds but to be honest I dont follow anything about the LS engines because they did not come in 60's muscle cars.

That dont mean I dont respect them as I know many can spank me back to the 60's but I dont care. I will say if I did get interest to build a new Hemi I would put it in a newer car as I just cant get into modern engines in old muscle cars. Thats just me but I understand to each his (or her) own. Ron

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 12:24 PM

I'm building a 420" gen III as we speak. Plenty of crank,rod and piston choices for them. I'm done making excuses. The LS7 is a cnc'd head from the factory, you put it up against a cnc'd Apache or even 6.1 head and it is behind. The main advantage an LS guy has is cheapness and aluminum blocks for weight savings. Other than that they can keep them.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 03:31 PM

This talk of what is the cheapest,,,some say they are going to take out their current motor and replace it with a G3/LS because it's 'cheaper'..??

If you leave the motor in that you have now= NO COST!!

I think there are a LOT of people that want a G3, but don't want it to look like they are 'betraying' their past history as a Mopar person. I know it was hard for me to finally admit that the G3 is a much better power producer than the normal LA with budget heads/parts. In fact, I have been telling a lot of my local small block Chevy dirt track racers to start thinking into the future, and seriously look at the LS motors,,,they are coming.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 03:57 PM

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This talk of what is the cheapest,,,some say they are going to take out their current motor and replace it with a G3/LS because it's 'cheaper'..?? If you leave the motor in that you have now= NO COST!! I think there are a LOT of people that want a G3, but don't want it to look like they are 'betraying' their past history as a Mopar person. I know it was hard for me to finally admit that the G3 is a much better power producer than the normal LA with budget heads/parts. In fact, I have been telling a lot of my local small block Chevy dirt track racers to start thinking into the future, and seriously look at the LS motors,,,they are coming.

Some dirt track forum has a thread about the LS Oiling issues. It refers to RPM.
Seems they have the same problem as the G3.

Matt

Posted By: Skeptic

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 05:54 PM

Back in the early days engine swaps were common.

Consider the current Gen of engines are the first "bottom up" designs since the late 50's/early 60's, it's not that surprising that they are more popular. As emission and fuel economy became important the old stuff was band-aided, and really poorly in many cases. Better heads finally came out in the 80s and better fuel control- i.e. TBI and EFI shortly afterward. Our old motors are the equivalent of the flathead Fords in the 50's. I wouldn't cross swap, but a 3rd Gen Hemi in an older car, Oh ya! Full EFI COP ign and all.

Posted By: D-50

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 08:09 PM

I think I heard them say on horse power tv this morning that Harland Sharp is making rocker arms for the Gen 3 hemi. Is this new or have they been out for a while?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 09:03 PM

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I think I heard them say on horse power tv this morning that Harland Sharp is making rocker arms for the Gen 3 hemi. Is this new or have they been out for a while?

They made them 4 years ago, and I have yet to see a set. Rumor is they were about $2k for a set....This whole Gen3 Hemi is really expensive. From the stroker kits to the ignition, to the valve train. More and more, I can build a big inch stump puller for a lot less. Notice the crappy hold downs too. The SDC ones are way better. Steff did it right..

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 09:32 PM

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I think I heard them say on horse power tv this morning that Harland Sharp is making rocker arms for the Gen 3 hemi. Is this new or have they been out for a while?

They made them 4 years ago, and I have yet to see a set. Rumor is they were about $2k for a set....This whole Gen3 Hemi is really expensive. From the stroker kits to the ignition, to the valve train. More and more, I can build a big inch stump puller for a lot less. Notice the crappy hold downs too. The SDC ones are way better. Steff did it right..

The geometry looks all wrong with the SDC rockers...
looks up way to high ... but since I havent measured it
I dont know for fact

Posted By: flatfoot

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 09:45 PM

i'd be more likely to put a mopar in a gm body.a 2nd gen camaro, or a g body.i don't like gm, but do like those body styles.and you can pick one up cheap, not all rusted out(like an a body), and make a fast drag car out of one.i'd rather have a 318 in a gm body than a ls in any mopar.but hey, that's me.i'm at the point where i have respect for any fast car, regardless of brand.but when it comes to building one, mine will be mopar powered, regardless of body style.and as mentioned, the money issue.i'd love to have a 358 cube former nascar engine with a manual trans, but it's the $$ issue holding me back.so i'm forced to use magnum 5.2 with a turbo, and home brew up a system.i'm not afraid of trying something new(turbo, or nitrous), and i'd love to have a hemi, but $$ again.to each his own.and i remember a mopar powered camaro from years ago who did quite well.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 09:53 PM

No offense to the guys saying this because I understand your point, but to compare the disparity between the LS and Gen III Hemi engines vs B/RB engines (and any other popular performance engine from the musclecar era) to the disparity between the 60s performance engines and the flatheads is just plain stupid.

WOW, LS guys have heads that flow 400 cfm? So do we, why don't you go buy a pair and bolt them on? A company called Brodix makes them, maybe you've heard of them? Too expensive? Edelbrock makes a nice cheap head that can get there too with some serious work. And theres another company called Indy that makes good heads for us.

They have aftermarket blocks? Those bastards! But so do we. And the blocks that they have look more expensive than ours. Sorry guys, this is turning into a thread of guys who sit around and gripe about how good the LS engines are and how we get no support from the aftermarket. Maybe we don't have it the best but it's not that bad and its the best its ever been. They do it on the mustang forums too, I swear there are Ford guys who believe that the 98-02 F body LS1 cars ran 12.80s stock. Why even turn this into an LS1 vs Gen 3 Hemi deal when we can make very good power with a B/RB engine. Thats hardly a Flathead Ford complex.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/19/14 09:56 PM

Those look like OEM rockers with SDC hold downs...Either way, its more expensive than a G2 Hemi..

Posted By: Dave_S

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/20/14 01:09 AM

When I had my Dart at the track the tech guy though my Gen3 Hemi was a LS motor!

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/20/14 01:21 AM

Quote:

No offense to the guys saying this because I understand your point, but to compare the disparity between the LS and Gen III Hemi engines vs B/RB engines (and any other popular performance engine from the musclecar era) to the disparity between the 60s performance engines and the flatheads is just plain stupid.

WOW, LS guys have heads that flow 400 cfm? So do we, why don't you go buy a pair and bolt them on? A company called Brodix makes them, maybe you've heard of them? Too expensive? Edelbrock makes a nice cheap head that can get there too with some serious work. And theres another company called Indy that makes good heads for us.

They have aftermarket blocks? Those bastards! But so do we. And the blocks that they have look more expensive than ours. Sorry guys, this is turning into a thread of guys who sit around and gripe about how good the LS engines are and how we get no support from the aftermarket. Maybe we don't have it the best but it's not that bad and its the best its ever been. They do it on the mustang forums too, I swear there are Ford guys who believe that the 98-02 F body LS1 cars ran 12.80s stock. Why even turn this into an LS1 vs Gen 3 Hemi deal when we can make very good power with a B/RB engine. Thats hardly a Flathead Ford complex.

nobody said BB mopes don't make power, can a BB make 650hp with stock rockers,lifters, OEM head castings,OEM intake and run great on pump gas? Can it do it without a distributor? Haha nope......

Posted By: topbrent

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/20/14 02:39 AM

Ignorance isn't a virtue.

Plenty of ignorance to go around on both sides of the table. New tech vs legacy old school brand loyal.

While nobody likes to have some jerk tell them their stuff is archaic and doesn't work, there are plenty of traditionalists in the Mopar world that just have their heads stuffed in the sand or elsewhere. The traditionalists are every bit as ignorant and rude when the topic arises.

Hotrodding is expensive. Engine swaps are part of hotrodding. Don't be angry about innovation.

Moreover, in this economic day and age, be happy to see any old car get running regardless of the powerplant. More and more formerly vintage only guys are choosing to just abandon their old non-operational relic in the garage to just buy a new/used Challenger, Camaro, or Mustang. The the price of entry for these cars is now no longer out of the financial reach for most people. 18K buys a heck of nice hot rod these days.

Though not a popular sentiment around these parts, the LS platform is great and it would be fun to have the swap friendly mentality, parts and tools for our benefit here in the Mopar realm.
(IMHO) There can/should be room enough for them in the Mopar world.

- The Dana 60 is stronger than the Mopar 8-3/4.
- Dodge trucks pull better with Cummins diesels.
- P-51 Mustangs flew better once the Rolls Royce Merlin replaced the Allison V12.
- The Colt M4 is a more useful weapon than a blunderbust.
- Mopar installs PowerGlide's and 9" Ford rears in their factory race Challengers.

Install the engine of your choice, traditional or modern, as it is a great era to build horsepower whatever your choice may be.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/20/14 05:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

No offense to the guys saying this because I understand your point, but to compare the disparity between the LS and Gen III Hemi engines vs B/RB engines (and any other popular performance engine from the musclecar era) to the disparity between the 60s performance engines and the flatheads is just plain stupid.

WOW, LS guys have heads that flow 400 cfm? So do we, why don't you go buy a pair and bolt them on? A company called Brodix makes them, maybe you've heard of them? Too expensive? Edelbrock makes a nice cheap head that can get there too with some serious work. And theres another company called Indy that makes good heads for us.

They have aftermarket blocks? Those bastards! But so do we. And the blocks that they have look more expensive than ours. Sorry guys, this is turning into a thread of guys who sit around and gripe about how good the LS engines are and how we get no support from the aftermarket. Maybe we don't have it the best but it's not that bad and its the best its ever been. They do it on the mustang forums too, I swear there are Ford guys who believe that the 98-02 F body LS1 cars ran 12.80s stock. Why even turn this into an LS1 vs Gen 3 Hemi deal when we can make very good power with a B/RB engine. Thats hardly a Flathead Ford complex.

nobody said BB mopes don't make power, can a BB make 650hp with stock rockers,lifters, OEM head castings,OEM intake and run great on pump gas? Can it do it without a distributor? Haha nope......

I haven't seen many 650 hp LS engines with stock intakes, rockers, lifters, and untouched heads. Unless you're talking about doing this with an LS7, in which case at that kind of price: Hemi. They're pretty tricked out when they're making that kind of power, just like any engine. The point is you can go as fast or faster, its in no way comparable to a flat head Ford.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/20/14 10:07 AM

I have seen this arguement a million times.

Fact is the GEN 3 and the LS motors using stock parts can make about the same power for the same price +/- 10%. usally up around 500-600hp

Step over 600hp and you will have to have some Other than Stock parts,. Be they full aftermarket parts or MODIFIED heavily stock parts.

Want to go past 650hp, better get the wallet/credit-card etc out. It's gonna cost you. This is about the point that the field as far as HP to $$$$ starts to even out.

I have considered and compared LA vs GEN3 & Gen 2 Hemi vs R3/W8,9 vs LS vs Ford.

Upto 500-600 LS and Ford Modular are the cheapest and easiest readily available 2 options. Gen 3 5.7L hemis are starting to catch up in the $$$$$.

Go over 600hp and the $$$$$ gap reduces very quick.

Over 750hp and that gap is at a point that if your complaining about the $$$$ you shouldn't be building to that level.

First thing that comes out of many LS peoples mouth when I mention BIG HEADs. Is the Mozez heads. Want to see a Deal Breaker. $4999.95 BARE!

And they only flow about 20-25cfm better than the W9-RPs I have, that cost me $4200 compelete and ready to go.

IF it were me and I was shooting for 400-500hp: Gen3 Hemi in a Mopar. Ls in a Chevy or Ford. Just too easy, less head aches.

I have a 2 Magnum Motors as well as an R3/W9-RP and they are both equally a Pain the Rear to find parts for some times and when said parts are found can be pricey. Just because they are getting dated and scarce. Only reason I haven't scrapped the Magnum Motors is all the re-wire and fab to make a Hemi and It's transmission FIT. I just don't have time at home to get it done.

Posted By: 4406bbl

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/20/14 08:53 PM

Some of you guys need to go price this stuff.
An ls 7 is about 13000 for just the engine, an
Ls3 or 6.2 is about 9000, just the engine.
Chrysler sells the 6.1 for 9000 with everything
you need to make it run except the fuel pump.
I think you can buy just the 6.1 for around 7500.
Mopar looks cheaper to me if you start with
new stuff.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/21/14 11:32 AM

Quote:

Some of you guys need to go price this stuff.
An ls 7 is about 13000 for just the engine, an
Ls3 or 6.2 is about 9000, just the engine.
Chrysler sells the 6.1 for 9000 with everything
you need to make it run except the fuel pump.
I think you can buy just the 6.1 for around 7500.
Mopar looks cheaper to me if you start with
new stuff.

This is what has me Turned off with Junk Yards as well. $6000+ for a 6.1l Hemi that has 20-60K miles and no computer or accessories. Hello spend an extra grand or 2 and get all NEW with Computer and Accessories from Ma Mopar.

On the flip side the 5.7l Hemis are pretty affordable from the scrappers. Just talked to someone last week that Bought 2 for $1200 total. One had 12,000 miles and the other about 80,000 miles. Included all accessories.

That would be the way to go if you know your going to go through it and build it YOUR WAY.

Unfortunately from what I am hearing the Hemi Blocks and Heads NEW are (if not already) drying up fast with NO Intentions of supplying more by Mopar. If this is true? and you want NEW better break out the Benjamins, for an Aluminum Block. $4500+ last I checked.

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/21/14 12:00 PM

one of my daily drivers is a 2005 CTS-V Caddy.
super charged with heads, cam and a ton of suspension mods. It made 580 RWHP and handles the corners like a slot car. I bought it since it was a steal. Only problems were it ate a motor at 9,000 miles when detonation collapsed the cast pistons( GM only puts forged in Corvettes),a trans at 15,000 and rear( known to be junk at assembly time) at 6,000 miles.
It does go like the wind

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/21/14 06:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You guys kill me. If everyone was putting a hemi in everything I'll bet everyone would be happy. If we had the factory support like the LS we would be having this conversation.
Hell I'll bet that if we had a quarter of the support the LS has the hemi would be king.
The LS is a great engine that's why mopar build the hemi similar to it. Take the heads of and have a look.
The LS program is basically idiot proof. Go fast with not too much thinking.
Matt

Look at all the parts they have available. We will never have this kind of support for anything Mopar. All Ma is interested in is selling new cars.

Can`t stand GM PERIOD...............Everyone`s got one except for a few and myself and just because we don`t have all of the support you speak of doesn`t mean we need to be a trader and sell out. At the track I lay down decent numbers and make guys scratch their heads(mostly gm clucks)and ask me how much "spray" I`m using.........too funny. Mopar or no car PERIOD..............

Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/21/14 07:01 PM

I remember being impressed with the dyno sheets from an LS7 way back in 2006-7. Flat tq curve, wide hp band and it revved up quick! New technology in the hard parts (cam, heads, etc.) is cool and usually finds it way over to our applications that need updates from when they were originally designed (aka 1950's).

That said I'd bet you could build a pretty comparable 400 based stroker with some careful shopping utilizing lots of shade tree mechanics.

Most of the relatively cheap LS engines that make good power seem to have a power adder of some sort. Personally I think anything that helps continue the hobby is good. With everything being three times the price of ten years ago (not counting Chinese knock off parts) it's not surprising that guys are going mad max at the local salvage yard.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/21/14 07:07 PM

Quote:

Some of you guys need to go price this stuff.
An ls 7 is about 13000 for just the engine, an
Ls3 or 6.2 is about 9000, just the engine.
Chrysler sells the 6.1 for 9000 with everything
you need to make it run except the fuel pump.
I think you can buy just the 6.1 for around 7500.
Mopar looks cheaper to me if you start with
new stuff.

There are no more factory 6.1 being produced. You will need to purchase the 6.4 which in my opinion is a better block.
This year the heavy duty rams have the 6.4. There should be cores available soon.

Matt

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/26/14 06:36 PM

Good thread,

I wonder if it's really more just the cost, the relative ease of tuning (admit it laptop tuning on the chassis dyno is much easier) or what....

I'm vexed because I have an 06 LS2 powered Trailblazer SS and it's hard not to like. I actually toyed with building a 4.125 stroke 427 iron block with trick flow heads for it....practically a turn key 550 horse daily driver with gobs of trailer pulling torque,

I guess I can justify it to myself only because I'd use it to pull my Mopars to the track, lol. Ironically with just a tune and a few bolt one it's faster than the 67 440 GTX I had in high school

Posted By: topbrent

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/27/14 11:52 AM

Quote:

Streetwize:
Good thread,

I wonder if it's really more just the cost, the relative ease of tuning (admit it laptop tuning on the chassis dyno is much easier) or what....

I'm vexed because I have an 06 LS2 powered Trailblazer SS and it's hard not to like. I actually toyed with building a 4.125 stroke 427 iron block with trick flow heads for it....practically a turn key 550 horse daily driver with gobs of trailer pulling torque,

I guess I can justify it to myself only because I'd use it to pull my Mopars to the track, lol. Ironically with just a tune and a few bolt ons it's faster than the 67 440 GTX I had in high school

Add that your sporty Trailblazer SS weighs around 4800+lbs race weight, roughly around 1000lbs more than your 1967 GTX did.

Posted By: 74yellowduster

Re: Hearing this more and more.... - 01/27/14 05:39 PM

3500 HP blown alcohol 426 Hemi

any questions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc6D1I224a8

Hearing this more and more....