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Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: BSB67] #1560957
01/10/14 02:51 PM
01/10/14 02:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
I Live Here
DPelletier  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Quote:

So Cab, do you really think that in your example of going from 109 to 117 mph was because of the restriction of a perfectly good 2 1/2 exhaust system and nothing else? What is that, like 80 hp on a pretty mild motor?

I have more than one example of going from a 2 1/4 compression bent system to open headers that netted 2 mph in 12 second cars.

Obviously your experience is your experience, but logic suggests to me that possibly something else was at play in your example.







Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: DPelletier] #1560958
01/10/14 06:08 PM
01/10/14 06:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
pro stock
Copper Dart  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Very well put "Out of the Closet"! Bravo.
You summed it up in one post.

P.S. I'm only bowing at the neck, not at the waist. I don't want any misunderstandings.


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: Copper Dart] #1560959
01/10/14 06:51 PM
01/10/14 06:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
super stock
PC-CHARGER  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
If you really want to get technical and figure the exact size pipe and muffler you need for maximum flow with the minimum amount of noise, here's a long but very good read on header, exhaust and muffler design.

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/exhaust/0505phr_exh/

Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: PC-CHARGER] #1560960
01/11/14 03:00 AM
01/11/14 03:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,398
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda Offline
master
Sunroofcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,398
Highland, MI.
Just read all the posts. First of all, I'm in the Motor City & don't know of ANY regular exhaust shops that have a mandrel bender. I know companies that can mandrel-bend exhaust tubing, but they won't work on someone's car. You can buy mandrel bends & cut & weld the system together, but that is very tedious. I have no problem with good muffler shop compression bends - if the shop has a good custom exhaust man. Also, muffler shop machines (Huth or Ben Pearson) are not made to bend stainless tubing - bending 304 or 409 require too much tonnage for most muffler shop machines. Be aware too, there are muffler shops that do the smooth compression bends & will tell you they are mandrel bends. You should use 16-gauge tubing, whether it's stainless or aluminized. NO muffler shops build exhaust systems out of ALUMINUM! It won't take the heat. As far as stainless types, 304 is the good stuff & is non-magnetic, & it will NOT corrode at all. 409 stainless IS magnetic, & it will get rust & corrosion, but not as extreme as aluminized steel. NEVER let anybody use non-aluminized steel tubing to fab an exhaust system with - it will begin rusting overnight. NEVER use thinner 18-gauge tubing even if it's stainless no matter what grade.

As far as diameters, at around 500 HP & under, 2.5" is probably the right diameter. If you are going to be street driving mostly & not at the drag strip, then 3" would probably be overkill & you may lose some low-end & midrange performance. The right diameter system will give the exhaust flow velocity. Choose mufflers that FLOW WELL! I wish I would have known this back when I had my Hemi Charger back in 1981 - I used some stock Chrysler Hemi mufflers from Mitchells & they flowed like crap! I should have used some Walker Redline Z's back then.

STAINLESS PIPE (304 grade) produces a "ring" & many guys prefer the sound & cooling efficiency of aluminized steel. If you want the best flowing stainless oval mufflers on the market, there is no better choice than the Dynomax Ultra Flow stainless with the stock-looking spun-locked heads. NOTHING flows higher sCFM's than them. Good luck. Hey, the place that is going to mandrel-bend a system for you, ask them what kind of bender they use? I'd like to see if they will even tell you.


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: Sunroofcuda] #1560961
01/11/14 03:30 AM
01/11/14 03:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic Offline
master
Skeptic  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
I went with the Pypes 2-1/2" Stainless/ X-pipe/ Race Pro Muffs, for my 68 Barracuda. The price was very reasonable and it's mandrel bent. It was less expensive than the locally non mandrel bent 2" system EDIT plain muffler moly, non aluminized I had installed many years ago. Even factoring in the install, the Pypes system is a much better deal. YMMV.

Last edited by Skeptic; 01/11/14 01:07 PM.
Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: DPelletier] #1560962
01/11/14 05:33 AM
01/11/14 05:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

Quote:

So Cab, do you really think that in your example of going from 109 to 117 mph was because of the restriction of a perfectly good 2 1/2 exhaust system and nothing else? What is that, like 80 hp on a pretty mild motor?

I have more than one example of going from a 2 1/4 compression bent system to open headers that netted 2 mph in 12 second cars.

Obviously your experience is your experience, but logic suggests to me that possibly something else was at play in your example.







Dave


The results spoke for themselfs, I didn't beleive the first time slip either The second time slip and the other four did convince though When that car slowed down by adding the Bulllets that really gort me confused Sometimes theory and reality don't mix That is why we tests, correct


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: Copper Dart] #1560963
01/12/14 08:56 AM
01/12/14 08:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
P
Performance Only Offline
top fuel
Performance Only  Offline
top fuel
P

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Quote:

I'm almost ready for the Exhaust system and wonder what are the Pro's and Con's of both 2.5" or 3.0" and Stainless or Aluminized pipe.
I found a shop that will do an all Custom Mandrel bent system with a "X" pipe for my '70 Swinger with a Mild 440, Try-Y's 727, Mini tubbed.
I would think the 3" is an overkill but I may grow into it later.
What say you?
Thanks.




Ricky, lets look at this whole exhaust system using just a little bit of logic. Since I'm quite familiar with the engine combo, maybe I can be of some help here. We already know what the HP and Torque of the engine was with a proper header on it, we already know that those scrawny tri-y headers are going to be restrictive at best. They likely have a 3" flange off the collector, but does the pipe inside the flange actually measure that big?
More to the point, I'd run 3" pipe to the mufflers and then 2 1/2" for tail pipes. That way if you ever get a real set of headers you'll at least have the right size pipe up front. There's no power to be gained on your combo with 3" pipe all the way out the back because your restriction is right at the header. A good aluminized system will last 10-12 years, something to keep in mind when it comes to cost vs. return on investment. Now if you plan on putting mirrors under your car at car shows and you want to polish up some stainless pipe, that's a different story.
PM me the name of the shop you're talking to. I know of only one shop in this county that has/ had a true mandrel bender and they're on Military trail. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: 2 1/2 or 3" Exhaust in Stainless or Aluminumized? [Re: Performance Only] #1560964
01/12/14 12:08 PM
01/12/14 12:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,848
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,848
MI, usa
For those of you that think standard pipe won't hold up. I built a 3 1/2" mandrel bent weld together system in 1991. The headers and pipes to the mufflers are still on the car. I did have to patch do to rust in one area. My second car has TTI aluminized pipe 2 1/2" system. Been on the car 10 years. Stainless is nice, but costly. Personally for the cost of the TTI system is a decent bargain. Driven a 64 fury convert with the TTI 3", it's plenty quiet. A last note I've back to backed my 11.00@ 3890lbs street car with both Flow Master and Ultra-Flow. Very little difference in E.T.
Doug

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