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X-block sonic test results #1553642 12/26/13 09:55 PM 12/26/13 09:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland M mopster OP member
mopster OP member M Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland	I�m starting a small block build, half race half street use, n/a E85, around 13:1 compression. I�m using X-block and plan is to use 4.125" crank and 4.08" bore. I need the block to handle 700hp. Now the sonic numbers are very nice from the thrust sides all around, but there are core shift in non-thrust direction. Worst spots are only .090" in cyl 4 and 8. I tested the block myself with Dakota Ultrasonics PR-82 tester which I calibrated before the test. I took a lot of readings and nothing was left unnoticed. The block is now in 4.04" size, and I was thinking the bore centerlines could be moved about .020" in non-thrust direction when it gets bored .040" bigger. That way those thin walls wouldn�t get much more thinner really, but the guestion is, are they too thin already? If it was a production block then that would be the case, but this is more rigid raceblock with high nickel casting so I�m not quite sure. I will consider sleeves if it�s too risky wihout them. 7972383-x-blocksonic.JPG (399 downloads) Last edited by mopster; 12/26/13 09:56 PM.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: mopster] #1553643 12/27/13 01:20 AM 12/27/13 01:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	I would sleeve it and go 4.100 bore.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: 1967dartgt] #1553644 12/27/13 02:09 AM 12/27/13 02:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 250 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt enthusiast
79410aspenrt enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 250 Saskatchewan (SK)	My x block is sleeved. 4.100 bore and 4.125 molnar crank. 4 bolt mains, half fill. 652 hp at 6800 rpm and 590 ft lbs at 4800 rpm.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: 1967dartgt] #1553645 12/27/13 06:20 AM 12/27/13 06:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland M mopster OP member
mopster OP member M Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland	Would you sleeve #4 and 8 or all four from right side?

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: mopster] #1553646 12/27/13 07:59 AM 12/27/13 07:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 413 Norway (old world) Oyvind Mopar mopar
Oyvind Mopar mopar Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 413 Norway (old world)	You could bore the # 4 and 8 moving them so you bore .030 against the front and .010 against the rear (c/l moved .015"), it depends on how much you need to bore to clean the cylinders up. I do this all the time, moving the cylinders if there is significant core shift. As long as the rest of this block is so good that is what I would do, if you have to bore to 4.080! My

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: Oyvind Mopar] #1553647 12/27/13 08:19 AM 12/27/13 08:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 413 Norway (old world) Oyvind Mopar mopar
Oyvind Mopar mopar Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 413 Norway (old world)	Maybe I missed your point; is it strong enough already? I would say the block will be weakened with sleeves, but the sleeved cylinders will be fine. So, how thick do you want the sleeves? With the thin spots a proper sleeve will go through. A thin sleeve will weaken the old cylinder where it is thin so it can crack, then the whole culinder will be deformed. If you go thick: This means it will be a half wet - half dry sleeve, and coolant can get in between. Could be some issues there. When this happens to me I machine away the whole cylinder and add a thick sleeve, preferably with a small flange on top. A thick sleeve means appx 0.2" thick. This is less than your good cylinders, and the support from the remains is not worth much when they are not all around the circle. I would say that sleeves can be added anytime, but the original block is at your hand now. And, for racing you will always have some maintenance dismantling, checking etc., so the workload would not matter too much if you need to redo it. Try it as it is! My

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: Oyvind Mopar] #1553648 12/27/13 11:44 AM 12/27/13 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland M mopster OP member
mopster OP member M Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland	It�s just that if one cylinder wall fails it can take the whole shortblock with it and there�s nothing to repair anymore. Interesting info about sleeves, how everyone else are sleeving cylinders? How thick sleeve? Dry, wet, half wet?

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: mopster] #1553649 12/27/13 11:52 AM 12/27/13 11:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: It�s just that if one cylinder wall fails it can take the whole shortblock with it and there�s nothing to repair anymore. Interesting info about sleeves, how everyone else are sleeving cylinders? How thick sleeve? Dry, wet, half wet? I had 1 block sleeved in 1 cyl... that was into water... that same sleeve failed and I had it sleeved again... since then its been fine... you have a few cyl on the THIN side and your not even at your bore size yet... I can see why the person is selling that block but if you want to throw some money at it, it can be saved EDIT On the off cutting the cyl... first put the cyl heads on and mark the bores on the head and see if you can move the chamber over some Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/27/13 11:59 AM.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: Oyvind Mopar] #1553650 12/27/13 11:53 AM 12/27/13 11:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ M MoparBilly master
MoparBilly master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ	Two things I don't do: Follow my Wife around when she's "out" with friends, and sonic check blocks! Some things in life you're just better off not knowing! My 4 bolt X block has been running High 10's, low 11's since the 90's at 4.040, just bought a BPE kit, 4.125 crank and 4.070 bore. Want us to sonic check that for ya? No Thanks! 7973019-drag-week-2012-final-day-saturday-tulsa-7575.jpg (94 downloads) "Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: MoparBilly] #1553651 12/27/13 12:32 PM 12/27/13 12:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th... G Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music! G Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...	Will it clean up at 4.060? "Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind" '92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: Guitar Jones] #1553652 12/27/13 12:46 PM 12/27/13 12:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon V viperblue72 top fuel
viperblue72 top fuel V Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon	moparbilly, I bet that you are never going to get a colonoscopy either.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: MoparBilly] #1553653 12/27/13 12:54 PM 12/27/13 12:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: Two things I don't do: Follow my Wife around when she's "out" with friends, Bore it minimum to clean it up and run it. Fastest 300

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: Crizila] #1553654 12/27/13 02:57 PM 12/27/13 02:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 250 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt enthusiast
79410aspenrt enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 250 Saskatchewan (SK)	mine has been sleeved for years, must be 10 for sure. they put in bigger sleeves so I could bore out more then 1 time. it was bored to 4.080 in 2005 and I took it to 4.100 this spring. never any problems with the sleeves. it seen 8500 rpm for a lot of years.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: 1967dartgt] #1553655 12/27/13 07:16 PM 12/27/13 07:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,575 K KOS pro stock
KOS pro stock K Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,575	Quote: I would sleeve it and go 4.100 bore. i agree...... better ring selection also at that bore vs 4.080

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: Guitar Jones] #1553656 12/27/13 08:25 PM 12/27/13 08:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland M mopster OP member
mopster OP member M Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland	Quote: Will it clean up at 4.060? It doesn�t really matter if it will be bored another .020" or .040" because bore centers will be moved, and as little as possible will be cut from the thin sides. Theres plenty of meat in all the other walls, and also combustion chamber fitment is not a problem since the heads for this engine is still as cast and I can match them after the block is done. The thinnest spots will end up around .080" without sleeves. The question is can it handle 700hp and 13:1 compression that way or does it have to be sleeved? And if so, how many sleeves and how thick? Does it matter if part of the cylinder goes through into water? Taking out the whole cylinder sounds a bit extreme to me Not easy guesions but all input is appreciated.

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: MoparBilly] #1553657 12/28/13 12:41 AM 12/28/13 12:41 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,189 aZLiViN J J_BODY I Live Here
J_BODY I Live Here J Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,189 aZLiViN	Quote: Two things I don't do: Follow my Wife around when she's "out" with friends, and sonic check blocks! Some things in life you're just better off not knowing! My 4 bolt X block has been running High 10's, low 11's since the 90's at 4.040, just bought a BPE kit, 4.125 crank and 4.070 bore. Want us to sonic check that for ya? No Thanks! I had my new R3 block sonic checked..... it was GOLD!! ....but I'm not looking for "high 10's low 11's" either.. been there done that. ....but the Mirada RB block was never sonic checked, or filled and that poster child for scrap metal was dishing out 9.9 passes! would love to have that block checked!!

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: mopster] #1553658 12/28/13 02:20 PM 12/28/13 02:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland M mopster OP member
mopster OP member M Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland	Quote: Does it matter if part of the cylinder goes through into water? Taking out the whole cylinder sounds a bit extreme to me Not easy guesions but all input is appreciated. On the other hand, if a thick sleeve is installed, there is not much left of the original cylinder. It may be only one wall that still has enough meat to add strenght to the block. Oyvind, has there been trouble with the blocks after removing a cylinder and replacing it with a thick sleeve. Have you done more than one from same side?

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: J_BODY] #1553659 12/28/13 02:31 PM 12/28/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,632 Lubbock,TX D DavidDean top fuel
DavidDean top fuel D Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,632 Lubbock,TX	I recently built an X block project. I found core shift front to back (non thrust) I had the passenger cylinders off set bored about .050 to try to compensate for the core shift. I ended up with thrust wall thickness over .250 non thrust (between the cylinders ended up about .100).The finished bore size is 4.125.Before boring I did an extra tall fill (barely room for coolant). I used moroso offset dowels to try to center the heads the best I could.The engine was challenging to make everthing fit right. I had problems with radial valve clearance. push rod clearance in the head and piston to rod clearance. I finally made everthing fit right after lots of head scratching and cussing. I'm still using this motor, it is 454" w/ a BPE 4.250 crank. IMM indy 360-1 heads. It made about 780 hp on sunset's dyno. Its been 5.66 @ 120 1/8 shifting at 6500.If I had it to do again I would have made a number of changes(maybe smaller bore less offset bore). I've started another project w/a tall r block and W-8 heads because I'm afraid this motor may have a "short fuse" even though it has some good parts.My fear comes from the X block. 7974406-bracketnationals.jpg (74 downloads)

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: 79410aspenrt] #1553660 12/29/13 08:43 PM 12/29/13 08:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland M mopster OP member
mopster OP member M Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 128 Finland	Quote: mine has been sleeved for years, must be 10 for sure. they put in bigger sleeves so I could bore out more then 1 time. it was bored to 4.080 in 2005 and I took it to 4.100 this spring. never any problems with the sleeves. it seen 8500 rpm for a lot of years. So you have thick sleeves, how many? Are they in the same side?

Re: X-block sonic test results [Re: mopster] #1553661 12/29/13 09:07 PM 12/29/13 09:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 250 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt enthusiast
79410aspenrt enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 250 Saskatchewan (SK)	I have 3 sleeves. 2 on drivers side and 1 on passenger side. I was advised to put thicker sleeves in for future rebuilds. don't know if it matters but at 4.080'' it seen 8500 rpm for years. now it's at 4.100'' and sees 7100 rpm in my 3800 lbs R/T. 13.1 comp with iron heads.

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