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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1542780
12/06/13 08:13 PM
12/06/13 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
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And there you go.......Too much of THIS attitude among Mopar guys, is the reason we don't have cutting edge parts. You are going to have to explain to me how a Predator is a BB Chevy head. Last time I checked, they bolted on a 4.800 bore space Mopar block and NOTHING else, plus they are a spread port head. Show me ONE BB Chevy that EVER came from the factory with a spread port head.
Monte
This attitude is called passion for a certain manufactor, if you don't just hate it when a
GM car wins, your not a true blood Mopar man. If a Mopar with a mopar enginie is not in the final I go home and when a Mopar wins what a felling,now that's attitude!
You get cutting edge parts through innovation, not sticking your nose up the GM guys butt doing what he's already done, you'll always be one step behind eating crumbs.
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542781
12/06/13 08:24 PM
12/06/13 08:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
And there you go.......Too much of THIS attitude among Mopar guys, is the reason we don't have cutting edge parts. You are going to have to explain to me how a Predator is a BB Chevy head. Last time I checked, they bolted on a 4.800 bore space Mopar block and NOTHING else, plus they are a spread port head. Show me ONE BB Chevy that EVER came from the factory with a spread port head.
Monte
This attitude is called passion for a certain manufactor, if you don't just hate it when a
GM car wins, your not a true blood Mopar man. If a Mopar with a mopar enginie is not in the final I go home and when a Mopar wins what a felling,now that's attitude!
You get cutting edge parts through innovation, not sticking your nose up the GM guys butt doing what he's already done, you'll always be one step behind eating crumbs.
So you're saying it needs to be a factory block and factory heads, since nothing made in the aftermarket is actually mopar. It might bolt up but mopar didn't make it. Obviously you don't cheer on the top fulel or pro stock mopar teams either, since they aren't mopar parts either.
How far do you take it?
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542785
12/06/13 10:33 PM
12/06/13 10:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Some how my point is not getting through. There are very very few parts made by "Mopar" on the engine now. A top fuel engine still resembles a Mopar Hemi, looks like it feels like it but not made by Mopar. There are certain things that define a Mopar,just like Chevys and Fords have theirs. It does't look like a chevy or ford does it? Real Mona Lisa fake Mona Lisa still look the same. Heck just make a square box to put it in with the headers sticking out then put it in a square car like NASCAR does and put a decal saying whos manufacture it is today and root for smiling Johnny B. Quick. Make somthing that stands out from the crowd not just blend in. Mopar guys have money they are just smarter with it.
You never answered my question about how a Predator head is like a BBC head, since NO BBC EVER came with a head like that.
And did you root for the Mopar Pro Stocks when they ran the "Eicke" head.
If all Mopar guys had you attitude about building something new and innovative, we would be getting our butts kicked worse than we are. Bottom line, there is NO head that LOOKS like a Mopar head than can remotely compete with the other brands on a heads up level. So I guess that's the way you like it huh........And DON"T say what about Top Fuel. That engine has as much in common with a factory Hemi as my lawn mower engine, which has the spark plug in the middle of the head.
Monte
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Defbob]
#1542788
12/06/13 11:05 PM
12/06/13 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
A good starting point would be to make a cast water version of AJPE 5.3 Hemi. A lot of designing has already been done, rocker gear, head bolt pattern, intakes, gaskets/o-rings, valve covers, etc.
for drag weekers   I could use a head that flows over 620
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Defbob]
#1542789
12/06/13 11:06 PM
12/06/13 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
A good starting point would be to make a cast water version of AJPE 5.3 Hemi. A lot of designing has already been done, rocker gear, head bolt pattern, intakes, gaskets/o-rings, valve covers, etc.
What would be the point in doing that? Please explain.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1542790
12/07/13 12:22 AM
12/07/13 12:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
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Quote:
Quote:
Some how my point is not getting through. There are very very few parts made by "Mopar" on the engine now. A top fuel engine still resembles a Mopar Hemi, looks like it feels like it but not made by Mopar. There are certain things that define a Mopar,just like Chevys and Fords have theirs. It does't look like a chevy or ford does it? Real Mona Lisa fake Mona Lisa still look the same. Heck just make a square box to put it in with the headers sticking out then put it in a square car like NASCAR does and put a decal saying whos manufacture it is today and root for smiling Johnny B. Quick. Make somthing that stands out from the crowd not just blend in. Mopar guys have money they are just smarter with it.
You never answered my question about how a Predator head is like a BBC head, since NO BBC EVER came with a head like that.
And did you root for the Mopar Pro Stocks when they ran the "Eicke" head.
If all Mopar guys had you attitude about building something new and innovative, we would be getting our butts kicked worse than we are. Bottom line, there is NO head that LOOKS like a Mopar head than can remotely compete with the other brands on a heads up level. So I guess that's the way you like it huh........And DON"T say what about Top Fuel. That engine has as much in common with a factory Hemi as my lawn mower engine, which has the spark plug in the middle of the head.
Monte
fist time i saw the predator head i said to myself they put a chevy-oldsmobile "design" (not sure you understand the difference) head on a mopar. haven't watched prostock since Alderman. and if you say the top fuel engine doesn't look like a 426 hemi i might as well be talking to a 5 year old, oh and where do we run the competition heads up other than prostock and don't say the stutter box classes. and with enough attitudes we wouldn't have to put up with the junk made today,they can't make a cast block that's worth a darn, with all the technology today we can't even equal the 1950s casting process. the age of greatness is dead and gone
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542791
12/07/13 12:55 AM
12/07/13 12:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
dakotawilly
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
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that's what I think also,come on! they have been casting blocks since the beginning of time.every time something new springs up,its overwhelmed with problems and goes belly up.you don't see problems like that with model t's and a's,they were cast by cavemen and are still around.the technology is there to do it right,but those who do it are obviously escapees from bellview,or,just not getting the right people.the factories do it everyday,why cant others???? my guess is if its cast right the first time,instead of 357 changes and upgrades it wouldn't cost 4grand for a block,and another 4 grand to get it machined just to work......nuff said.....
Last edited by dakotawilly; 12/07/13 01:00 AM.
SFI 25.5 depends,no leak,even at 213 mph....
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542792
12/07/13 02:02 AM
12/07/13 02:02 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
Adrielp
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
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Cudaman, I'm a diehard like you but your argument lacks weight in the area of resolve. Your argument doesn't solve the design flaws in current Mopar configurations. Its doesn't aid in finding options for Mopar racers that want to advance past 40year old technology. As a person working on designing a new cylinder head, there are many flaws in the wedge design that you simply cannot use when you want to make over 2.5HP/ci. Improving and building upon these flaws is how we advance and sometimes the flaws are such that its more beneficial to start with a clean sheet. I for one go so upset of over not having any options I took upon myself to do my own canted head design and start the legwork for it. That design looks nothing like a Mopar head due to current OEM constraints, you can achieve much more by moving the configuration around and that is the innovation of design. Finding ways to better what was done in the past and having the guts to purpose design something brand new for the mopar faithful. You don't have to walk in the footsteps of the past to advance a design, your learn from what was done and use that to create something new purpose built for use with a mopar product.
I give much props to anyone willing to think outside the box and progress mopar technology. I sure plan to as I'm given the opportunity.
Last edited by Adrielp; 12/07/13 02:05 AM.
Adriel Paradise
Substation Design Engineer III
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1542794
12/07/13 11:32 AM
12/07/13 11:32 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Hmm, if you're looking for higher specific output per cube, and you're fabricating something completely new, I get away from the V-8 configuration all together. Cut the back two cylinders off one block, and the front two off another, make a V-12. An easy 850+ inches and a fewer issues with valve train.
Or something OHC like a McGee. S/F....Ken M
But you have all the weight and you still didnt increase
the HP/CI ratio
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542795
12/07/13 02:26 PM
12/07/13 02:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Some how my point is not getting through. There are very very few parts made by "Mopar" on the engine now. A top fuel engine still resembles a Mopar Hemi, looks like it feels like it but not made by Mopar. There are certain things that define a Mopar,just like Chevys and Fords have theirs. It doesn't look like a chevy or ford does it? Real Mona Lisa fake Mona Lisa still look the same. Heck just make a square box to put it in with the headers sticking out then put it in a square car like NASCAR does and put a decal saying whos manufacture it is today and root for smiling Johnny B. Quick. Make somthing that stands out from the crowd not just blend in. Mopar guys have money they are just smarter with it.
You never answered my question about how a Predator head is like a BBC head, since NO BBC EVER came with a head like that.
And did you root for the Mopar Pro Stocks when they ran the "Eicke" head.
If all Mopar guys had you attitude about building something new and innovative, we would be getting our butts kicked worse than we are. Bottom line, there is NO head that LOOKS like a Mopar head than can remotely compete with the other brands on a heads up level. So I guess that's the way you like it huh........And DON"T say what about Top Fuel. That engine has as much in common with a factory Hemi as my lawn mower engine, which has the spark plug in the middle of the head.
Monte
fist time i saw the predator head i said to myself they put a chevy-oldsmobile "design" (not sure you understand the difference) head on a mopar. haven't watched prostock since Alderman. and if you say the top fuel engine doesn't look like a 426 hemi i might as well be talking to a 5 year old, oh and where do we run the competition heads up other than prostock and don't say the stutter box classes. and with enough attitudes we wouldn't have to put up with the junk made today,they can't make a cast block that's worth a darn, with all the technology today we can't even equal the 1950s casting process. the age of greatness is dead and gone
I don't understand the difference...yeah right...LOL!! Where do we run heads up.........oh, I don't know, how about Pro-Mod and any number of other heads up classes all over the country. Pro-Stock and that technology doesn't mean squat to you and me. Because even if we could afford one, try taking it to your local track and enter a "heads-up" class and you will be on the trailer first round. And while we are on that subject, care to tell me what factory Mopar head our current Pro-Stock head closely resembles. The answer, NONE.
You like Alderman, ok, lets look at that. They started with the B-1, then the PSO, then the TS. So had that development line kept going, do you think the next heads would have LOOKED like a Chrysler head, hell no. It would have been another aftermarket race head, just like is on every other motor out there. Warren Johnson more or less designed the head that became known as the DRCE and virtually EVERY wedge head, for virtually EVERY make, now follows that basic principle. Our own Pro-Stock Hemi is nothing more than a "twisted" wedge chamber with the plug through the middle of it. It is not even CLOSE to a Hemi, but Mopar chose some slick marketing to get the fans to jump on board by calling it such and getting all the "die hards" to accept it.
Monte
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: moparmafia]
#1542797
12/07/13 06:48 PM
12/07/13 06:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
The way i see it is the mopar crowd that is the problem. every time a new product comes out or is even thought of it has to go through the usual bullcrap from the mopar masses. I have ford and chevy friends and never not ONE time have i heard them complain that their new product looks like the last one, all they care about is function of the product. most of the parts on their cars were produced by an aftermarket company and they do not complain. i am surprised a mopar supplier can accomplish anything with all the bs. how does mopar even come out with a newly designed car since it looks nothing like what is already out there on the street. heck it cant be a mopar if it looks totally different. all i heard when the new charger came out is how ugly they are and they shouldnt be called a mopar. i heard it all weekend at the mopar nats that first year they were out. i got so sick of hearing it and i actually like them 4 doors and all. even though now they are accepted by most they had to go through the same bs. i say if you can afford to make anything mopar better or faster than by all means go ahead and do not listen to the whiny mopar stiffs who cannot accept change and just leave them be. I am die hard mopar but i am willing to accept change because its the only way to improve.
 1000%.... a LOT of these guys are still living
in the 60s.. I'll take anything that will help go fast...
hell I have chevy rods in all my stuff... granted
when the Ram truck first came out I didnt care for
it but look at it now... truck of the year 2 times
in a row
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