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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527797
11/06/13 12:20 PM
11/06/13 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 39
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Sweigart1022
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 39
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
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I live in Robesonia. I race the points series at Maple Grove. I have some experience from working on my car and from a few of the guys I race against. I think I missed it somewhere in the thread but what rear suspension are you running? I understand are shocks are more expensive than most of the other brands. I would be more than happy to help you with whatever shocks you get. If your at Maple Grove on a day you see me there I would be more than happy to lend a hand.
Competitive Suspension Solutions
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527799
11/06/13 12:44 PM
11/06/13 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 39
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Sweigart1022
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 39
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
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Trust me from experience with my own caltracs. The rear mono-leaf cal-tracs are opposite of the way a 4 link works. To hit the tire harder you want less rebound. A cal trac car to plant the tire is going into rebound first and the compression is holding the tire to the track. The travel in the front of the car is important as well. I struggled with not enough travel before. Now I pull both wheels off the ground going 1.39 60'.
Competitive Suspension Solutions
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527800
11/06/13 01:30 PM
11/06/13 01:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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My CalTrac & mono-leaf-equipped 440 Challenger was extremely sensitive to both tire pressure and front suspension travel & freedom of movement, in addition to getting the basic rear suspension preload and shock damping settings dialed in. I had to lower my front ride height and cut down my control arm stops to get 5"+ travel from the static ride height. My QA1 R-Series shocks have extremely light rebound damping (as adjusted to the lightest of 12 settings) and a fixed firm compression damping curve. The ET Street Radials were sensitive to 1/2 psi too little pressure allowing them to fold up, then unload: 17.0 too light, 17.5 just right. I'm also going to switch from 8" to 10" rims to help spread out the footprint of the 275/60R15s that I run. Before getting these two things corrected, the car would first hook, then unload the rear tires a few feet out. Drove me freakin' nuts.  After correcting those, the car hooked consistently on a decent track (not "garbage prep").
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: BradH]
#1527801
11/06/13 01:35 PM
11/06/13 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Quote:
... radial friendly valving...
Monte - I've done a lot of motorcycle damper tuning over the years (changing high & low speed compression & rebound valve stacks on motocross bikes) and am curious how you would describe how radial-type settings would differ from bias-ply.
Thanks,
Brad
Anyone willing to clue me into how radial-type damping generally differs from what would be suitable for bias-ply tires?
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527802
11/06/13 01:36 PM
11/06/13 01:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Hopefully you can see it I don't know how to make it larger.
While it is small.........what I do see is nearly a picture perfect graph. There is ZERO tire spin in that graph. If it ever and I repeat EVER spins the tire, there will be a dip in the g-meter, because the car stops accelerating momentarily. That g-meter curve is smooth as glass and doesn't have a bobble in it
Monte
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527805
11/06/13 02:35 PM
11/06/13 02:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
If I click on attachment it opens up full screen.
I'm not saying it is smoking the tires it is just turning them more than it should until it gets up to speed.
Not sure what you think you see in that graph, but it is NOT spinning the tires. I have studied a RacePak graph or two.........LOL!!!
Now while you may think you see some little "stairsteps" in the shaft rpm, that is just the sample rate on the logger. This car has fairly low wheelspeed early and a two magnet shaft collar. With the sample rate high, it shows up as small steps........but.......the g-meter does NOT lie. This graph does NOT show any tire spin
Monte
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527807
11/06/13 04:08 PM
11/06/13 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you 60ft and what is your ET and MPH, weight of car, converter, trans, transbrake, etc?
1.45 60ft 10.05 et 137 mph 3950 lbs 5200 stall foot brake 4.10 gear 325x50x15 ET Street Radial 28 inches tall.
Is that from a pass where it hooks up? Because I'm baffled by how you can pull the same 1.45 60-ft, end up with 11 MPH more than I do (137 vs 126), yet only cut the ET by .5 (10.0 vs 10.5). 
What are your 1/8 mile times & MPH? Mine are in the 6.6s @ 101-102 when the 1/4 mile hits 10.5s @ 126(+/-).
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: BradH]
#1527808
11/06/13 04:17 PM
11/06/13 04:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,703
Mohnton, Pa
DodgeCharger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,703
Mohnton, Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What do you 60ft and what is your ET and MPH, weight of car, converter, trans, transbrake, etc?
1.45 60ft 10.05 et 137 mph 3950 lbs 5200 stall foot brake 4.10 gear 325x50x15 ET Street Radial 28 inches tall.
Is that from a pass where it hooks up? Because I'm baffled by how you can pull the same 1.45 60-ft, end up with 11 MPH more than I do (137 vs 126), yet only cut the ET by .5 (10.0 vs 10.5).
What are your 1/8 mile times & MPH? Mine are in the 6.6s @ 101-102 when the 1/4 mile hits 10.5s @ 126(+/-).
Yes that is a run that is hooked up or so they say. 1/8th mile in that pass was a 6.45 @ 109 mph.
Did you see the video in this link I posted?
1.45 60ft 1/8th 6.40 @ 109.56 mph
Some of the reason for the bad 60ft is a tight converter and 4.10 gears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgQGNFsRvNo&feature=c4-overview&list=UUsk47AoA-3A5hfOX5rFIUXw
Last edited by DodgeCharger; 11/06/13 04:22 PM.
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527809
11/06/13 04:58 PM
11/06/13 04:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 210
Elverson, Pa
Joe Grippo
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 210
Elverson, Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you 60ft and what is your ET and MPH, weight of car, converter, trans, transbrake, etc?
1.45 60ft 10.05 et 137 mph 3950 lbs 5200 stall foot brake 4.10 gear 325x50x15 ET Street Radial 28 inches tall.
Allen, what is your launch RPM?
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527810
11/06/13 05:11 PM
11/06/13 05:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
When a car leaves the line the tires always spin a little faster than the car is moving. I've seen slow motion video. I am just looking to minimize this.
No sir, NOT true on a car with a drag radial. Like I have already said, a drag radial is hooked or its not, there is no in between. Slick cars always tend to blacktrack a little to make wheelspeed. You DON"T want to dead hook a slick. It needs to spin a little. A drag radial is a whole nother animal.
Now I am not sure if the above observation is of your car on radials, or just other cars in general.......but I can tell you, that between the video you posted of your car and the graph you posted above, the car was DEAD HOOKED on those two passes. Now what it did on others I have no idea, but in these two instances, you had ZERO tire spin.
It seems you may be trying to somewhat fix a problem you don't have. If the car knocks the tire off, obviously it spun........but if you just think it is turning the tires a little because your 60ft is not where you think it should be, you are mistaken.
I tune LOTS of drag radial cars, both extremely fast and not so much and have watched hundreds of passes and seen hundreds of graphs. One thing I can tell you, is that tuning a radial car and a slick car, takes two different mindsets. And the data and results you see will be different
Monte
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1527812
11/06/13 05:20 PM
11/06/13 05:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,703
Mohnton, Pa
DodgeCharger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,703
Mohnton, Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
When a car leaves the line the tires always spin a little faster than the car is moving. I've seen slow motion video. I am just looking to minimize this.
No sir, NOT true on a car with a drag radial. Like I have already said, a drag radial is hooked or its not, there is no in between. Slick cars always tend to blacktrack a little to make wheelspeed. You DON"T want to dead hook a slick. It needs to spin a little. A drag radial is a whole nother animal.
Now I am not sure if the above observation is of your car on radials, or just other cars in general.......but I can tell you, that between the video you posted of your car and the graph you posted above, the car was DEAD HOOKED on those two passes. Now what it did on others I have no idea, but in these two instances, you had ZERO tire spin.
It seems you may be trying to somewhat fix a problem you don't have. If the car knocks the tire off, obviously it spun........but if you just think it is turning the tires a little because your 60ft is not where you think it should be, you are mistaken.
I tune LOTS of drag radial cars, both extremely fast and not so much and have watched hundreds of passes and seen hundreds of graphs. One thing I can tell you, is that tuning a radial car and a slick car, takes two different mindsets. And the data and results you see will be different
Monte
Can you explain why the car would pick up ET by adding weight if it is not spinning?
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527813
11/06/13 05:42 PM
11/06/13 05:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When a car leaves the line the tires always spin a little faster than the car is moving. I've seen slow motion video. I am just looking to minimize this.
No sir, NOT true on a car with a drag radial. Like I have already said, a drag radial is hooked or its not, there is no in between. Slick cars always tend to blacktrack a little to make wheelspeed. You DON"T want to dead hook a slick. It needs to spin a little. A drag radial is a whole nother animal.
Now I am not sure if the above observation is of your car on radials, or just other cars in general.......but I can tell you, that between the video you posted of your car and the graph you posted above, the car was DEAD HOOKED on those two passes. Now what it did on others I have no idea, but in these two instances, you had ZERO tire spin.
It seems you may be trying to somewhat fix a problem you don't have. If the car knocks the tire off, obviously it spun........but if you just think it is turning the tires a little because your 60ft is not where you think it should be, you are mistaken.
I tune LOTS of drag radial cars, both extremely fast and not so much and have watched hundreds of passes and seen hundreds of graphs. One thing I can tell you, is that tuning a radial car and a slick car, takes two different mindsets. And the data and results you see will be different
Monte
Can you explain why the car would pick up ET by adding weight if it is not spinning?
Your shift points were higher or lower, the launch rpm was higher or lower. Your conv flashed a little higher with the added weight. There are lots of variables. Your car is not spinning off the line.
Last edited by 1967DartGT; 11/06/13 05:43 PM.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: What are the best double adjustable rear shocks ?
[Re: DodgeCharger]
#1527814
11/06/13 07:24 PM
11/06/13 07:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,006
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,006
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
Quote:
The front end also needs a progressive stop for travel limit.
The factory travel limiters are designed this way. Using any form of travel limiter that stops the travel suddenly will transfer that sudden move to the back of the car, unloading it like Monte said.
What are you using for a progressive stop?
I have a thick plastic coated steel cable looped around the chassis tube. An Eye bolt hooked to that goes through the upper A arm and uses old bayonet rubber shock bushings and retainers. Between the stiffness of the cable and the give in the rubber, it works for me. The more travel you have, the softer the stop will need to be, IMHO.
Last edited by gregsdart; 11/06/13 07:26 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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