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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1519578
02/12/14 06:58 PM
02/12/14 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
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Quote:
Perhaps I'm not describing it correctly, but with my Firm Feel stage 3 box occasionally, not every time, you will turn the steering wheel one inch and get nothing, then two inches, nothing, then as you turn the third inch you get 3 inches of input all at once. It ain't tires or a lack of stiffness in the car, it's the steering box. Since it doesn't do it every time, it can make the car a handful in quick transitions. I'm going Borgeson....
I somewhat recognize this behaviour, but are you really sure that comes from the steeringbox only?
I would think this has more to do with a wheel alignment or maybe a more likely worn idler arm bushing.
One car of mine sometimes shows this behaviour aswell, but I know the wheels aren't aligned properly, along with an old stock powersteering box.
Is the numbness only felt when turning the steeringwheel either to the left, or the right at that time?
If it's only happening at one direction, the linkage could just be busy taking up all the slack in the system first before the actual wheelmovement is happening.
You might be able to test this stationary by checking toe-settings while slightly turning the steeringwheel alternatly left and right, and compare both possible toe-setting differences.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1519584
02/16/14 06:14 PM
02/16/14 06:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
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Quote:
I wonder when the first C-body will pop up with a Borgbox under the hood... 
Maybe Feets will be looking to improve the steering in his Imperial in time?
Isn't an Imperial different than a C body?
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1519585
02/16/14 06:47 PM
02/16/14 06:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
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Quote:
Quote:
I have the Firm Feel stage 3 on my 69 Barracuda, and it's good, except for the fact there is still some just off center numbness. For Autocrossing it's not ideal. I'm putting the Borgeson in my 67 Valiant because if it's anything like the newer Cherokee it came out of, it will be better...
Cars that are not reinforced in critical areas will exhibit the "off center numbness" regardless of whose steering box is in the car. The bigger the front tires - the more numbness you will experience under load.
I got the FF Stage 2 box and their sector support kit and I definitely have a gap of about 15 degrees on the steering from center left or right before the wheels start to move. I wonder if it is worse because of my steamroller tires? I must say it still feels a lot better than my steering from before!
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: moparpollack]
#1519587
02/16/14 08:35 PM
02/16/14 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
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Quote:
Isn't an Imperial different than a C body?
A lot of things are different on those cars but I don't think or see why they would have designed a different steeringbox for such a low production car line. But I'll probably be proven wrong... 
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: RylisPro]
#1519588
02/16/14 10:21 PM
02/16/14 10:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
Cars that are not reinforced in critical areas will exhibit the "off center numbness" regardless of whose steering box is in the car. The bigger the front tires - the more numbness you will experience under load.
I got the FF Stage 2 box and their sector support kit and I definitely have a gap of about 15 degrees on the steering from center left or right before the wheels start to move. I wonder if it is worse because of my steamroller tires? I must say it still feels a lot better than my steering from before!
I have a reinforced K member in the Charger, a FF #3 box, 275-40-18 front tires and there is a degree of looseness from 11:00 to 1:00 no matter the adjustment on the top of the steering chuck. This is what I have heard elsewhere. I don't blame the Firm Feel guys. I think that it is due to the actual design of the steering unit itself. It is because of this that I am curious about the Borgeson unit.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1519589
02/17/14 12:54 AM
02/17/14 12:54 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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By making small mesh adjustments, I haven't had a Firm Feel rebuilt box that is any different from the Borgeson units. Any slop in the steering is induced by deflection in tires, components or alignments that cause steering center to be off.
FWIW, we have cars with both boxes, we sell neither, so we are about as unbiased as you can get. I just want you guys to have fast cars. If the Firm Feel guys say your box is toast, or you are converting to power form manual, then I would say that Bergman or Borgeson is the way to go. If you car is already a power car, save some coin and rebuilt and adjust what you have. And remember, the mesh is a fine tuning to a larger adjustment.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1519592
02/18/14 06:42 PM
02/18/14 06:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
BergmanAutoCraft
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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Quote:
By making small mesh adjustments, I haven't had a Firm Feel rebuilt box that is any different from the Borgeson units. Any slop in the steering is induced by deflection in tires, components or alignments that cause steering center to be off.
FWIW, we have cars with both boxes, we sell neither, so we are about as unbiased as you can get. I just want you guys to have fast cars. If the Firm Feel guys say your box is toast, or you are converting to power form manual, then I would say that Bergman or Borgeson is the way to go. If you car is already a power car, save some coin and rebuilt and adjust what you have. And remember, the mesh is a fine tuning to a larger adjustment.
Sorry Dan, I have to disagree here...Cannot fight technology on this one....
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: komninon]
#1519593
02/20/14 02:44 AM
02/20/14 02:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
we have ordered the borgeson box from bergman auto carft ,their coupler and hose kit. i took out my firmfeel III box with fast ratio pitman arm. hopefully we have it instaled soon , i will let you know if it is worth the money.
The way this winter is going your going to be test driving your car in May for that report....unless you want to drive it in this salty soupy mess out there.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: komninon]
#1519595
02/20/14 01:24 PM
02/20/14 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Washington State
cudaragtop
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Washington State
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Quote:
we have ordered the borgeson box from bergman auto carft ,their coupler and hose kit. i took out my firmfeel III box with fast ratio pitman arm. hopefully we have it instaled soon , i will let you know if it is worth the money.
Will you be trying the fast ratio arms with the Borg box? I'm interested in what the drivability is like with that combination.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: cudaragtop]
#1519596
02/20/14 05:09 PM
02/20/14 05:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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I'm also interested to hear about the Borg'sn box WITH the fast-ratio longer arms (pitman and idler).... for steering response.
I initially also suspect the inside front tires will hit the frame rail more easily.
Aside from the newer technology of the Borg'sn box, in my opinion, the biggest advantage is the lighter weight of it as compared to a factory older ps box.... continuos reduced weight = faster lap times in every respect (accel, decel, cornering).
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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It will be good/helpful to hear what you find. I have to admit , I'm getting curious now....Just trying to wade through what is hype and what is fact? I have a fairly new FF stage 3 box so I'm in no hurry yet? 
