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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: derekeh]
#1508853
09/28/13 10:07 AM
09/28/13 10:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
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40+ years of innovation and design may be a bit difficult to incorporate into the old platform. Some improvements will be rather easy, while others may be very, very difficult. And to pull it all together, well.............
If you pull the trigger, keep us posted. Good luck.
Master, again and still
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: bigblock340power]
#1508858
09/28/13 12:47 PM
09/28/13 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
A small block would really be easier in the corners, and lighter in the front. Stroke it! I'm running a 340 stroked to a 416 (also 360's are easy to find (360 + 4.0 crank + 30 over bore = 408 cubes)). She'll run in the 11.teens all day (on pump gas!). With a four speed auto trans, and a lockup converter, that's still obtainable. You can cruse the high way easily too. I'm running a 8 3/4 rear end (never had a problem). I'm sure people out there have better suggestions for you, but keep your options open till you decide.
Good luck! 
for a 416 SB to run mid 11's in a heavy e-body it'd need a TON of work. I do agree that an 8.75 is fine for mid 11's in an A,B or E body. Mines holding up fine. If you are worried about breaking it just back brace it. That said nothing wrong w/ a 9" either.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1508859
09/28/13 02:55 PM
09/28/13 02:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Quote:
A small block would really be easier in the corners, and lighter in the front. Stroke it! I'm running a 340 stroked to a 416 (also 360's are easy to find (360 + 4.0 crank + 30 over bore = 408 cubes)). She'll run in the 11.teens all day (on pump gas!). With a four speed auto trans, and a lockup converter, that's still obtainable. You can cruse the high way easily too. I'm running a 8 3/4 rear end (never had a problem). I'm sure people out there have better suggestions for you, but keep your options open till you decide.
Good luck!
for a 416 SB to run mid 11's in a heavy e-body it'd need a TON of work. I do agree that an 8.75 is fine for mid 11's in an A,B or E body. Mines holding up fine. If you are worried about breaking it just back brace it. That said nothing wrong w/ a 9" either.
If he has the coin...a smallblock Mopar is going to take some serious coin to get it up to the 700 HP ball park ($15-$20K), then reliability/longevity become factors, the stock small block Mopar comes in at 550 lbs, a 383/400 at 620 lbs, and an RB at 670 lbs, not even a concideration...an all aluminum 6.1 Mopar Gen III comes in at 490 lbs and has a base 535HP, an lS1 (427) all aluminum comes in at 450 lbs, or an iron block LS1 at 525 lbs, the all aluminum LS1 is reliable up to 900 HP max, and the iron block LS1 up to 1500 HP reliable...if you look at an engine, as just that, an engine...then the LS1 is the logical choice HP/cost wise like it or not.. IMHO the LS1 mated to a Viper spec'd T56 6spd, and a Ford 9" or Cobra IRS would yield a nicely rounded package for street/strip/course, think of them merely as mechanical components, chosen for performance/cost rather than silly brand loyalty based components which will take more $$$$ to be on an equal basis performance wise.
Crate motors
Gen III Mopar Hemi 6.1
All aluminum 490 lbs
535 HP base $14K
565 HP base $15K
615 HP base $18K
LS1
all aluminum Gen III 450 lbs
Iron block/aluminum head 525 lbs
427 cubes
540 HP base $9K
670HP base $10.5K
690 HP base $12K
900HP base $15K
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1508860
09/28/13 07:06 PM
09/28/13 07:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A small block would really be easier in the corners, and lighter in the front. Stroke it! I'm running a 340 stroked to a 416 (also 360's are easy to find (360 + 4.0 crank + 30 over bore = 408 cubes)). She'll run in the 11.teens all day (on pump gas!). With a four speed auto trans, and a lockup converter, that's still obtainable. You can cruse the high way easily too. I'm running a 8 3/4 rear end (never had a problem). I'm sure people out there have better suggestions for you, but keep your options open till you decide.
Good luck!
for a 416 SB to run mid 11's in a heavy e-body it'd need a TON of work. I do agree that an 8.75 is fine for mid 11's in an A,B or E body. Mines holding up fine. If you are worried about breaking it just back brace it. That said nothing wrong w/ a 9" either.
If he has the coin...a smallblock Mopar is going to take some serious coin to get it up to the 700 HP ball park ($15-$20K), then reliability/longevity become factors, the stock small block Mopar comes in at 550 lbs, a 383/400 at 620 lbs, and an RB at 670 lbs, not even a concideration...an all aluminum 6.1 Mopar Gen III comes in at 490 lbs and has a base 535HP, an lS1 (427) all aluminum comes in at 450 lbs, or an iron block LS1 at 525 lbs, the all aluminum LS1 is reliable up to 900 HP max, and the iron block LS1 up to 1500 HP reliable...if you look at an engine, as just that, an engine...then the LS1 is the logical choice HP/cost wise like it or not.. IMHO the LS1 mated to a Viper spec'd T56 6spd, and a Ford 9" or Cobra IRS would yield a nicely rounded package for street/strip/course, think of them merely as mechanical components, chosen for performance/cost rather than silly brand loyalty based components which will take more $$$$ to be on an equal basis performance wise.
Crate motors
Gen III Mopar Hemi 6.1
All aluminum 490 lbs
535 HP base $14K
565 HP base $15K
615 HP base $18K
LS1
all aluminum Gen III 450 lbs
Iron block/aluminum head 525 lbs
427 cubes
540 HP base $9K
670HP base $10.5K
690 HP base $12K
900HP base $15K
LS1? really why not sell the cuda and get a Camaro then? He can build a 600hp 440 for way under 9k and he won't have to buy any aftermarket crap or be embarrassed to open the hood. 
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: derekeh]
#1508863
09/28/13 08:35 PM
09/28/13 08:35 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I think if you want EFI, A/C, and overdrive, then look at the 6.1L Gen3. I just got a 6.1 with the 5-speed auto with all the accessories and stock computer for $4,000. Getting the computer reflashed and engine wiring harness does not seem to be a problem, just more $$$. The NAG1 5-speed seems to be harder to get hooked up? A manual trans might be easier and cheaper than the auto trans?
The 6.4 Gen3 seems to still be very expensive, and the 5.7s are avaliable cheap, but don't have the upgraded components of the 6.1.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1508864
09/29/13 09:56 AM
09/29/13 09:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
derekeh
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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Im mostly mopar but I do like all brands to an extent. However I wouldnt even dream of swapping a gm or ford engine into my cuda.
I do like the lighter weight of the 6.1 and it should definitely help in handling. However, while I definitely want better handling than stock, Im not looking to get the best handling possible out of my cuda. I do plan on swapping out my k-frame to help with weight, handling, and more room. Out of the 3 engine choices (big block, small block and gen 3 hemi), which would be the most reliable and economical in making this car capable of, lets say.... low 11s. Mind you I want efi, a/c, and possibly a supercharger (if needed for my goal). The reason I want economy is I drive my cars a lot. Im just not into a trailer queen or street rod that is barely streetable. The cuda will be a weekend ride and occassionally a road trip ride. Maybe this will help clarify what Im wanting lol.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: derekeh]
#1508867
09/29/13 02:11 PM
09/29/13 02:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
-
RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
-
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Quote:
However I wouldnt even dream of swapping a gm or ford engine into my cuda.
Thank-God...
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: derekeh]
#1508870
11/02/13 10:54 AM
11/02/13 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
So what kind of power can these engines handle? That may be a deciding factor as well. Big block, small block and the 6.1 hemi. ?
As much as your wallet can afford. Really an 11 second street car isn't that hard and it doesn't have to be expensive. I wouldn't go dumping a ton of money into a Gen III hemi and EFI just to run 11's.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1508871
11/02/13 12:26 PM
11/02/13 12:26 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I find it unfathomable that somebody could type with a straight face about putting GM and Ford components into a 70 Cuda. There might be a slight money advantage to doing so, but if you are that tight with the build of your car, you either need to get into a GM or 5.0 mustang, lower your expectations of fuel economy or get ready to be completely emabrassed to show your car to anybody with taste.
I think brand loyalty to vintage mopar muscle cars is what this forum is all about and a few of you guys need to remember that before making ludacris suggestions.
Anyways, I would suggest a gen 3 hemi swap with a kenne bell blower and tremec 6 speed behind it with a Dana 60 behind that. Is it cheap? No. Would it be way cooler than GM and Ford crap on your vintage mopar? Please....... of course.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1508874
11/02/13 04:55 PM
11/02/13 04:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A small block would really be easier in the corners, and lighter in the front. Stroke it! I'm running a 340 stroked to a 416 (also 360's are easy to find (360 + 4.0 crank + 30 over bore = 408 cubes)). She'll run in the 11.teens all day (on pump gas!). With a four speed auto trans, and a lockup converter, that's still obtainable. You can cruse the high way easily too. I'm running a 8 3/4 rear end (never had a problem). I'm sure people out there have better suggestions for you, but keep your options open till you decide.
Good luck!
for a 416 SB to run mid 11's in a heavy e-body it'd need a TON of work. I do agree that an 8.75 is fine for mid 11's in an A,B or E body. Mines holding up fine. If you are worried about breaking it just back brace it. That said nothing wrong w/ a 9" either.
If he has the coin...a smallblock Mopar is going to take some serious coin to get it up to the 700 HP ball park ($15-$20K), then reliability/longevity become factors, the stock small block Mopar comes in at 550 lbs, a 383/400 at 620 lbs, and an RB at 670 lbs, not even a concideration...an all aluminum 6.1 Mopar Gen III comes in at 490 lbs and has a base 535HP, an lS1 (427) all aluminum comes in at 450 lbs, or an iron block LS1 at 525 lbs, the all aluminum LS1 is reliable up to 900 HP max, and the iron block LS1 up to 1500 HP reliable...if you look at an engine, as just that, an engine...then the LS1 is the logical choice HP/cost wise like it or not.. IMHO the LS1 mated to a Viper spec'd T56 6spd, and a Ford 9" or Cobra IRS would yield a nicely rounded package for street/strip/course, think of them merely as mechanical components, chosen for performance/cost rather than silly brand loyalty based components which will take more $$$$ to be on an equal basis performance wise.
Crate motors
Gen III Mopar Hemi 6.1
All aluminum 490 lbs
535 HP base $14K
565 HP base $15K
615 HP base $18K
LS1
all aluminum Gen III 450 lbs
Iron block/aluminum head 525 lbs
427 cubes
540 HP base $9K
670HP base $10.5K
690 HP base $12K
900HP base $15K
LS1? really why not sell the cuda and get a Camaro then? He can build a 600hp 440 for way under 9k and he won't have to buy any aftermarket crap or be embarrassed to open the hood.
but you have a Chevrolet hood scoop on your car, whats the difference...... 
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1508875
11/02/13 06:14 PM
11/02/13 06:14 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
"gen 3 hemi swap with a kenne bell blower and tremec 6 speed"
not cheap is an understatment. I'm guessing the blower alone is like 6k. He could build a 10 second BB for that alone.
It doesnt have to have a blower at all, I just know that if I built a car that way, I would want one. Yes, it would be pricey with that blower. Yes, a BB would be cheaper and nothing wrong with doing it that way, but he did say he wanted some decent type of fuel economy. Ain't gonna happen with a carb'd 900 lb BB.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: ]
#1508876
11/02/13 06:20 PM
11/02/13 06:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
"gen 3 hemi swap with a kenne bell blower and tremec 6 speed"
not cheap is an understatment. I'm guessing the blower alone is like 6k. He could build a 10 second BB for that alone.
It doesnt have to have a blower at all, I just know that if I built a car that way, I would want one. Yes, it would be pricey with that blower. Yes, a BB would be cheaper and nothing wrong with doing it that way, but he did say he wanted some decent type of fuel economy. Ain't gonna happen with a carb'd 900 lb BB.
6-pack and a 4 speed and right gear will get him well over 15mpg (probably 20 w/ the new OD 833) I get about 15 hwy at 60mph and that's with 3.91's and an auto.
"but you have a Chevrolet hood scoop on your car, whats the difference......"
because I still have a mopar engine and I needed the clearance, IMO there's no GOOD hood scoop for a 68-70 Charger, so I went with what flowed best w/ the body lines. Gonna jam up a 'cuda guy for a shaker? I mean Furd had them 1st.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1508879
11/02/13 09:51 PM
11/02/13 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267
Connecticut
1972CudaV21
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267
Connecticut
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Quote:
IMHO, the most cost effective way to get high HP with good street matter is with CUBIC INCHES.
Start thinking 400" plus small blocks and 470" plus big blocks.
Pretty cost effective as well!
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1508880
11/02/13 10:57 PM
11/02/13 10:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
If you have the coin, then a supercharged Gen 3 and a T56 6spd and Ford 9 inch rear would make for a nice combo...if you want, and HP is your only concern, with no regard to brand loyality, then an LS1, T56 6spd, Ford 9 inch rear or IRS...If corner carving is in the cards
Mike has a valid point. If your going to be utilizing a new generation fuel injected engine you can't really beat the aftermarket support the LS or Coyote engines get with wiring harnesses efi engine controls needed to install these engines into a chassis that was not originally designed for these engines. I did see a mega squirt harness and computer for the 6.1 Hemi engine but nothing from Mopar to my knowledge.
The idea of taking a third gen Hemi and running an old school carb and distributor on it eludes me but hey I'm only one person and maybe the rest of the world is into carbs and dizzy's on new engines?
The Coyote engine is also a good value and takes some weight off the nose of these cars. They need a retrofit serpentine belt kit to run a power steering belt as Ford is now using electric for the power assist on the rack in the new cars. I think its offered by Vintage Air and a few others.
Think of this a Coyote Engine inside a Road Runner..............that would take an easy 250# off the nose of a Mopar powered by a RB Six Pack.
Back on topic my 508 Six pack, 4.25" stroked with 727 9.5" convertor and 2.94 gears and 26" tall tires was knocking out 18+ mpg cruising the highway. Even with 2.94's the car screams that convertor works in that heavy car and slip is less than 2% at 55 mph.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: ahy]
#1508882
11/04/13 02:20 PM
11/04/13 02:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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If you want t ohave it all for the least - a typical 505" Rb with a FAST EFI and some sort of modern trans would be chaepest. It won't get the milage of a Gen III but it will look "right" and if it couldn't get high teens mileage wise I'd be surprised. The new hemis are cool but they take a lot to get in place - and nothing's cheap stuff. I'd rather have a car that's worth more than I just put into when I'm done, and a high hp gen 3 swap will be close to break even at best. The last pull out 6.1 I had any interaction in was $6500 byt itself and makes 345hp to the tire with a carb and cam swap. That's not enough steam to put a heavy E body (saddled with options and stuff) to mid 11s. Especially not with the driver shifting it and street rubber.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: RobX4406]
#1508884
11/04/13 07:52 PM
11/04/13 07:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
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Just over $2000 to convert my 440 to full sequential fuel, and spark using Megasquirt, and the junkyard. I love it.... I just put 60lb/hr injectors out of a 2013 Ford GT500 in it, that I found on rockauto for only $24 a piece! Engine makes 513/542 on the carb, I have yet to dyno it in the car with the EFI. It's MUCH more powerful now than it was with the carb! And it starts with the twist of a key. 
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: redmist]
#1508886
11/04/13 09:43 PM
11/04/13 09:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Just over $2000 to convert my 440 to full sequential fuel, and spark using Megasquirt, and the junkyard.
I love it....
I just put 60lb/hr injectors out of a 2013 Ford GT500 in it, that I found on rockauto for only $24 a piece!
Engine makes 513/542 on the carb, I have yet to dyno it in the car with the EFI. It's MUCH more powerful now than it was with the carb! And it starts with the twist of a key.
then your carb wasn't tuned right. Nice set-up I'll say.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1508887
11/05/13 02:30 AM
11/05/13 02:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
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Correct, the carb was never tuned right, because the weather, and altitude changes in life... I don't worry about the simple stuff like how our environment changes, I have modern stuff that does it for me.  Carbs are great on race motors, but for a car that gets driven a lot, it's a losing battle, or a constant compromise. I have seen the light. Never again will a carb function on a vehicle I own. It's not worth the headache. There is nothing a carb can do better than my EFI setup, except percolate fuel.  Also keep in mind, that I can control timing now in a linear curve in any RPM, and any load range. That alone is a power builder.
Last edited by redmist; 11/05/13 02:32 AM.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: redmist]
#1508888
11/05/13 09:18 AM
11/05/13 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Correct, the carb was never tuned right, because the weather, and altitude changes in life... I don't worry about the simple stuff like how our environment changes, I have modern stuff that does it for me.
Carbs are great on race motors, but for a car that gets driven a lot, it's a losing battle, or a constant compromise.
I have seen the light. Never again will a carb function on a vehicle I own. It's not worth the headache.
There is nothing a carb can do better than my EFI setup, except percolate fuel.
Also keep in mind, that I can control timing now in a linear curve in any RPM, and any load range. That alone is a power builder.
now all you need is a little boost.
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Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?
[Re: derekeh]
#1508891
11/06/13 09:58 AM
11/06/13 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Honestly I'm more interested in a small block or gen 3 hemi.... Although that efi big block looks sweet! So its down to a small block or 5.7/6.1 that is fuel injected and most likely supercharged.
it would be hard to get a N/A sb into the 11's in an e-body...w/o some expensive parts. So boost would be t he way to go. If you have any fab skills you can buy a SBC or SBF s/c kit and modify it. Or you can open your wallet and pay out the ash for a pre-made mopar kit.
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Do you know the true weight of the 09 Challenger? If so and if it is above 3800 lbs the Cuda should get the same or better mileage than the heavier, less aerodynamic 09 
foul about the 340 Duster having an unfair advantage!!
