11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?

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A small block would really be easier in the corners, and lighter in the front. Stroke it! I'm running a 340 stroked to a 416 (also 360's are easy to find (360 + 4.0 crank + 30 over bore = 408 cubes)). She'll run in the 11.teens all day (on pump gas!). With a four speed auto trans, and a lockup converter, that's still obtainable. You can cruse the high way easily too. I'm running a 8 3/4 rear end (never had a problem). I'm sure people out there have better suggestions for you, but keep your options open till you decide.
Good luck!

for a 416 SB to run mid 11's in a heavy e-body it'd need a TON of work. I do agree that an 8.75 is fine for mid 11's in an A,B or E body. Mines holding up fine. If you are worried about breaking it just back brace it. That said nothing wrong w/ a 9" either.

If he has the coin...a smallblock Mopar is going to take some serious coin to get it up to the 700 HP ball park ($15-$20K), then reliability/longevity become factors, the stock small block Mopar comes in at 550 lbs, a 383/400 at 620 lbs, and an RB at 670 lbs, not even a concideration...an all aluminum 6.1 Mopar Gen III comes in at 490 lbs and has a base 535HP, an lS1 (427) all aluminum comes in at 450 lbs, or an iron block LS1 at 525 lbs, the all aluminum LS1 is reliable up to 900 HP max, and the iron block LS1 up to 1500 HP reliable...if you look at an engine, as just that, an engine...then the LS1 is the logical choice HP/cost wise like it or not.. IMHO the LS1 mated to a Viper spec'd T56 6spd, and a Ford 9" or Cobra IRS would yield a nicely rounded package for street/strip/course, think of them merely as mechanical components, chosen for performance/cost rather than silly brand loyalty based components which will take more $$$$ to be on an equal basis performance wise.

Crate motors

Gen III Mopar Hemi 6.1
All aluminum 490 lbs
535 HP base $14K
565 HP base $15K
615 HP base $18K

LS1
all aluminum Gen III 450 lbs
Iron block/aluminum head 525 lbs
427 cubes
540 HP base $9K
670HP base $10.5K
690 HP base $12K
900HP base $15K

LS1? really why not sell the cuda and get a Camaro then? He can build a 600hp 440 for way under 9k and he won't have to buy any aftermarket crap or be embarrassed to open the hood.

but you have a Chevrolet hood scoop on your car, whats the difference......

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/28/13 11:20 PM

More and more shops are doing the late Gen 3 Hemi into all kinds of old Mopar cars and trucks, yours would be a perfect choice for one

As far as power and economy you already know that the right foot determines the fuel mileage, right

Do you know the true weight of the 09 Challenger? If so and if it is above 3800 lbs the Cuda should get the same or better mileage than the heavier, less aerodynamic 09

I raced a 1970 Hemi Cuda 4 speed car in the mid 1970s for several years in NHRA stock, it had to weigh 3420 minimum without the driver back then, it had a set fo Crager steel SS wheels and it had to have at least a 1/2 tank of gas to make the minimum weight

I'm almost positive the Gen 3 Hemis are way lighter in weight than the original all iron 426 street Hemi where

Besides, nothing beats the felings of building a car like that yourself instead of buying a new one off the dealer like a lot of other guys do, at least for me it does anyways

Posted By: Dcuda69

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/29/13 12:19 AM

My buddy did a 6.1 and the overdrive in a 65 Coronet. He got it as a take out for far less than 14k. He did a RMS K-frame with TTI exhaust. He has put 25k miles on the car since he finished it

He told me he gets 20+ mpg on the highway and he has had zero issues with it. If more power is what you need I would think a bolt on supercharger and a tune would hook you right up. I've seen him jump on this thing and it's no slouch as it is(all stock)!

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/29/13 12:35 AM

I think if you want EFI, A/C, and overdrive, then look at the 6.1L Gen3. I just got a 6.1 with the 5-speed auto with all the accessories and stock computer for $4,000. Getting the computer reflashed and engine wiring harness does not seem to be a problem, just more $$$. The NAG1 5-speed seems to be harder to get hooked up? A manual trans might be easier and cheaper than the auto trans?
The 6.4 Gen3 seems to still be very expensive, and the 5.7s are avaliable cheap, but don't have the upgraded components of the 6.1.

Posted By: derekeh

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/29/13 01:56 PM

Im mostly mopar but I do like all brands to an extent. However I wouldnt even dream of swapping a gm or ford engine into my cuda.
I do like the lighter weight of the 6.1 and it should definitely help in handling. However, while I definitely want better handling than stock, Im not looking to get the best handling possible out of my cuda. I do plan on swapping out my k-frame to help with weight, handling, and more room. Out of the 3 engine choices (big block, small block and gen 3 hemi), which would be the most reliable and economical in making this car capable of, lets say.... low 11s. Mind you I want efi, a/c, and possibly a supercharger (if needed for my goal). The reason I want economy is I drive my cars a lot. Im just not into a trailer queen or street rod that is barely streetable. The cuda will be a weekend ride and occassionally a road trip ride. Maybe this will help clarify what Im wanting lol.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/29/13 02:04 PM

You can get an aftermarket a/c unit that bolts right into your factory stuff. If you want all of just boost it and be done. A 500hp BB with boost becomes a 700hp BB real quick.

Posted By: terzmo

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/29/13 05:46 PM

my friends hemi(472) runs pump gas...10 to 1 compression and ran 11.13 through a full exhaust in a street 70 charger...full interior,etc

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/29/13 06:11 PM

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However I wouldnt even dream of swapping a gm or ford engine into my cuda.

Thank-God...

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 09/29/13 08:58 PM

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However I wouldnt even dream of swapping a gm or ford engine into my cuda.

Thank-God...

Me too, my 1940 Ford has a 351 Windsor motor with a AOD trany, all my Dodges and Plymouths have Mopar motors and my 1951 Chevy deluge coup will have a Gen 1 350 stroker 383 C.i. with a 700R4 in it, maybe with a Ford 8 inch rear end because I have it out of the 1940 Ford

Posted By: derekeh

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 02:34 PM

So what kind of power can these engines handle? That may be a deciding factor as well. Big block, small block and the 6.1 hemi. ?

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 02:54 PM

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So what kind of power can these engines handle? That may be a deciding factor as well. Big block, small block and the 6.1 hemi. ?

As much as your wallet can afford. Really an 11 second street car isn't that hard and it doesn't have to be expensive. I wouldn't go dumping a ton of money into a Gen III hemi and EFI just to run 11's.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 04:26 PM

I find it unfathomable that somebody could type with a straight face about putting GM and Ford components into a 70 Cuda. There might be a slight money advantage to doing so, but if you are that tight with the build of your car, you either need to get into a GM or 5.0 mustang, lower your expectations of fuel economy or get ready to be completely emabrassed to show your car to anybody with taste.

I think brand loyalty to vintage mopar muscle cars is what this forum is all about and a few of you guys need to remember that before making ludacris suggestions.

Anyways, I would suggest a gen 3 hemi swap with a kenne bell blower and tremec 6 speed behind it with a Dana 60 behind that. Is it cheap? No. Would it be way cooler than GM and Ford crap on your vintage mopar? Please....... of course.

Attached picture 7909230-darnell.jpg

Posted By: pinkduster

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 04:51 PM

LS1, [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] please man. What kind of "Mopar" fan would even suggest it?

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 08:32 PM

"gen 3 hemi swap with a kenne bell blower and tremec 6 speed"
not cheap is an understatment. I'm guessing the blower alone is like 6k. He could build a 10 second BB for that alone.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 10:14 PM

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"gen 3 hemi swap with a kenne bell blower and tremec 6 speed"
not cheap is an understatment. I'm guessing the blower alone is like 6k. He could build a 10 second BB for that alone.

It doesnt have to have a blower at all, I just know that if I built a car that way, I would want one. Yes, it would be pricey with that blower. Yes, a BB would be cheaper and nothing wrong with doing it that way, but he did say he wanted some decent type of fuel economy. Ain't gonna happen with a carb'd 900 lb BB.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 10:20 PM

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"gen 3 hemi swap with a kenne bell blower and tremec 6 speed"
not cheap is an understatment. I'm guessing the blower alone is like 6k. He could build a 10 second BB for that alone.

It doesnt have to have a blower at all, I just know that if I built a car that way, I would want one. Yes, it would be pricey with that blower. Yes, a BB would be cheaper and nothing wrong with doing it that way, but he did say he wanted some decent type of fuel economy. Ain't gonna happen with a carb'd 900 lb BB.

6-pack and a 4 speed and right gear will get him well over 15mpg (probably 20 w/ the new OD 833) I get about 15 hwy at 60mph and that's with 3.91's and an auto.

"but you have a Chevrolet hood scoop on your car, whats the difference......"

because I still have a mopar engine and I needed the clearance, IMO there's no GOOD hood scoop for a 68-70 Charger, so I went with what flowed best w/ the body lines. Gonna jam up a 'cuda guy for a shaker? I mean Furd had them 1st.

Posted By: ahy

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 10:58 PM

I had somewhat similar goals when I built my Challenger except the goal was handling more than 1/4 mile. I started with chassis stiffening - torque boxes and welded connectors then beefed up just about every part of the stock style suspension. 13" front discs and 17" wheels with sticky speed rated tires finish off the rolling part.

The powertrain starts with a low deck Ed headed 496 with FAST XFI, 5 speed Keisler TKO600 and 8.75/3.23 rear. The TKO has the more moderate .82 OD so 5'th is a top speed gear. The steeper .64 ratio would work better for cruising.

It all works very well together. After sorting out, it is reliable as well. I just made a 4300 mile trip from IL to CA and back in a week. Mileage was just over 14 MPG. The longer OD would probably get it over 15 and maybe 16. A six speed would be best of both worlds.

I guess engine HP is around 550. Better heads like Victors would get it over 600 without a crazy cam. Much more than that and the stock wedge block can get iffy.

If I did it again now, I would consider the Gen III Hemi. The block can take a lot of power (more than a stock wedge) and heads flow well. It could likely meet your performance goals NA. Also a 6 speed.

If I did it with a wedge, and could afford it, I would look for an aluminum block.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/02/13 11:39 PM

IMHO, the most cost effective way to get high HP with good street matter is with CUBIC INCHES.

Start thinking 400" plus small blocks and 470" plus big blocks.

Posted By: 1972CudaV21

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/03/13 01:51 AM

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IMHO, the most cost effective way to get high HP with good street matter is with CUBIC INCHES.

Start thinking 400" plus small blocks and 470" plus big blocks.

Pretty cost effective as well!

Posted By: PHJ426

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/03/13 02:57 AM

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If you have the coin, then a supercharged Gen 3 and a T56 6spd and Ford 9 inch rear would make for a nice combo...if you want, and HP is your only concern, with no regard to brand loyality, then an LS1, T56 6spd, Ford 9 inch rear or IRS...If corner carving is in the cards

Mike has a valid point. If your going to be utilizing a new generation fuel injected engine you can't really beat the aftermarket support the LS or Coyote engines get with wiring harnesses efi engine controls needed to install these engines into a chassis that was not originally designed for these engines. I did see a mega squirt harness and computer for the 6.1 Hemi engine but nothing from Mopar to my knowledge.

The idea of taking a third gen Hemi and running an old school carb and distributor on it eludes me but hey I'm only one person and maybe the rest of the world is into carbs and dizzy's on new engines?

The Coyote engine is also a good value and takes some weight off the nose of these cars. They need a retrofit serpentine belt kit to run a power steering belt as Ford is now using electric for the power assist on the rack in the new cars. I think its offered by Vintage Air and a few others.

Think of this a Coyote Engine inside a Road Runner..............that would take an easy 250# off the nose of a Mopar powered by a RB Six Pack.

Back on topic my 508 Six pack, 4.25" stroked with 727 9.5" convertor and 2.94 gears and 26" tall tires was knocking out 18+ mpg cruising the highway. Even with 2.94's the car screams that convertor works in that heavy car and slip is less than 2% at 55 mph.

Posted By: ahy

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/04/13 03:06 AM

EFI... whether adapted to an old school wedge or a Gen III hemi is the way to go with this project. Coast to coast capability means it runs well at 0 altitude in the desert or at a cold 10,000 ft. It also means that various gas blends don't bother it. An aftermarket EFI controller is pretty much required either way I believe.

Posted By: moper

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/04/13 06:20 PM

If you want t ohave it all for the least - a typical 505" Rb with a FAST EFI and some sort of modern trans would be chaepest. It won't get the milage of a Gen III but it will look "right" and if it couldn't get high teens mileage wise I'd be surprised. The new hemis are cool but they take a lot to get in place - and nothing's cheap stuff. I'd rather have a car that's worth more than I just put into when I'm done, and a high hp gen 3 swap will be close to break even at best. The last pull out 6.1 I had any interaction in was $6500 byt itself and makes 345hp to the tire with a carb and cam swap. That's not enough steam to put a heavy E body (saddled with options and stuff) to mid 11s. Especially not with the driver shifting it and street rubber.

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/04/13 07:08 PM

ET is about the chassis.

If you want to run low 11's with a 13 second chassis, you'll need more hp to get there.

Reality, a solid 520-550 hp in that car, assuming 3800-3900#, should be capable of pushing it to a low 11 sec slip which is not hard for a SB stroker or 440.

Pick your poison!

Posted By: redmist

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/04/13 11:52 PM

Just over $2000 to convert my 440 to full sequential fuel, and spark using Megasquirt, and the junkyard.

I love it....

I just put 60lb/hr injectors out of a 2013 Ford GT500 in it, that I found on rockauto for only $24 a piece!

Engine makes 513/542 on the carb, I have yet to dyno it in the car with the EFI. It's MUCH more powerful now than it was with the carb! And it starts with the twist of a key.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/05/13 12:35 AM

That is very cool!

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/05/13 01:43 AM

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Just over $2000 to convert my 440 to full sequential fuel, and spark using Megasquirt, and the junkyard.

I love it....

I just put 60lb/hr injectors out of a 2013 Ford GT500 in it, that I found on rockauto for only $24 a piece!

Engine makes 513/542 on the carb, I have yet to dyno it in the car with the EFI. It's MUCH more powerful now than it was with the carb! And it starts with the twist of a key.

then your carb wasn't tuned right. Nice set-up I'll say.

Posted By: redmist

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/05/13 06:30 AM

Correct, the carb was never tuned right, because the weather, and altitude changes in life... I don't worry about the simple stuff like how our environment changes, I have modern stuff that does it for me.

Carbs are great on race motors, but for a car that gets driven a lot, it's a losing battle, or a constant compromise.

I have seen the light. Never again will a carb function on a vehicle I own. It's not worth the headache.

There is nothing a carb can do better than my EFI setup, except percolate fuel.

Also keep in mind, that I can control timing now in a linear curve in any RPM, and any load range. That alone is a power builder.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/05/13 01:18 PM

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Correct, the carb was never tuned right, because the weather, and altitude changes in life... I don't worry about the simple stuff like how our environment changes, I have modern stuff that does it for me.

Carbs are great on race motors, but for a car that gets driven a lot, it's a losing battle, or a constant compromise.

I have seen the light. Never again will a carb function on a vehicle I own. It's not worth the headache.

There is nothing a carb can do better than my EFI setup, except percolate fuel.

Also keep in mind, that I can control timing now in a linear curve in any RPM, and any load range. That alone is a power builder.

now all you need is a little boost.

Posted By: 300by500

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/05/13 01:25 PM

Keep it Mopar. A 5.7 Gen3 with a supercharger has great HP numbers - nearly identical to a 6.1 with a supercharger. Best bang for the buck, IMHO.

Posted By: derekeh

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/06/13 12:33 PM

Honestly I'm more interested in a small block or gen 3 hemi.... Although that efi big block looks sweet! So its down to a small block or 5.7/6.1 that is fuel injected and most likely supercharged.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/06/13 01:58 PM

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Honestly I'm more interested in a small block or gen 3 hemi.... Although that efi big block looks sweet! So its down to a small block or 5.7/6.1 that is fuel injected and most likely supercharged.

it would be hard to get a N/A sb into the 11's in an e-body...w/o some expensive parts. So boost would be t he way to go. If you have any fab skills you can buy a SBC or SBF s/c kit and modify it. Or you can open your wallet and pay out the ash for a pre-made mopar kit.

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/06/13 02:32 PM

I like the small block in our E-body. Lots and lots of room to work on it, and kind of different from the big block/Hemi most expect to see when we pop the hood.
Might want to weigh that 'Cuda and see what you're dealing with. Our Challenger is only 3,340 pounds, and that's with an all metal body, full interior, small block and 727. It weighs almost exactly the same as my Duster. Kinda sucks really...you'd think with an A-body I'd have a huge weight advantage.

Posted By: derekeh

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/28/13 02:23 PM

What kind of power can a small block handle? I have a 1970 340 standard bore and a 1977 360 .040 over both ready to be used if either one of them can handle boost ok. If not I may buy a new block if I go the wedge route. Just not sure what they can handle.

Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/29/13 01:22 AM

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Kinda sucks really...you'd think with an A-body I'd have a huge weight advantage.

EASY Dustergirl!....The opposition AND some fellow
Big Block Mopar racers often

foul about the 340 Duster having an unfair advantage!!
Oh well...

Let them KEEP seeing your taillights!

Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: 11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners? - 11/29/13 01:31 AM

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What kind of power can a small block handle? I have a 1970 340 standard bore and a 1977 360 .040 over both ready to be used if either one of them can handle boost ok. If not I may buy a new block if I go the wedge route. Just not sure what they can handle.

A simple, BUT EFFECTIVE stroker setup on a 340/360 motor (yeiding in the 420-426) cube range should be streetable
enough to drive every day BUT run the 11-11.5 bracket in a 3500+ weight package w/4.10's. Carb, compression and converter stall depending.

11 second 1970 cuda with good street manners?