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Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: Wedgeman] #1504292
09/20/13 07:51 AM 09/20/13 07:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
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AUSTRALIA
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CLEVO351 Offline OP
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CLEVO351  Offline OP
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I Know Brian @ IMM has built a fair few engines with the indy heads, i know his busy but i hope he chimes in on this thread to see what timing he has found these heads like.
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CLEVO351] #1504293
09/20/13 08:21 AM 09/20/13 08:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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We generally run 38 to 40 on a race engine,just make sure it's getting enough fuel.

[IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: B G Racing] #1504294
09/20/13 07:40 PM 09/20/13 07:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,632
Lubbock,TX
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DavidDean Offline
top fuel
DavidDean  Offline
top fuel
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Lubbock,TX
My 360-1 done by Brian @ IMM liked about 35-36* on race gas at Sunset Race Craft. Made 778 on gas.It has gone 5.69 on methanol. I believe it may want a little less timing on methanol looking at the plugs.
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: DavidDean] #1504295
09/20/13 08:37 PM 09/20/13 08:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,000
Tampa Florida
dc426 Offline
gotta keep'm separated
dc426  Offline
gotta keep'm separated

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Tampa Florida
mine loved 40-42
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: Performance Only] #1504296
09/20/13 11:04 PM 09/20/13 11:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
top fuel
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Delray beach, Florida
There seems to be a pretty common theme to most of the replies here. The OP is asking about timing for a pump gas combo and almost everyone has replied with a racing engine likely running higher octane race gas. Higher octane (maybe too high) needs more timing due to the slower burn.
The engine masters combo is a totally different animal so there's no need to compare that one.

machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: dc426] #1504297
09/20/13 11:14 PM 09/20/13 11:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
top fuel
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Delray beach, Florida
Quote:

mine loved 40-42



Just a little reminder, I was the one that built the original combo you bought from Mike.
That engine was tuned on 104 octane and had 200 psi cranking compression back in 2003. The best power was made with 34 degree's of timing. Raise the octane and it wouldn't make any more power but it would sure need more timing. Food for thought.

machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: W5DART66] #1504298
09/20/13 11:39 PM 09/20/13 11:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50 Offline
pro stock
D-50  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
Quote:

Jet for best MPH then start adding 1* see how it responds.

Don't get hung up on a number as that's all it is.

My deal was way rich for engine masters that's just how you have to run that deal.

But still it still wanted 38-40* on pump gas in a car and this was 10.75to1 flat top.

Guy on moparts has the engine in a D-50 truck and it runs well.




Maybe I should try more timing, I have only been running 35 degrees so far. THANKS Brett.....

1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: Performance Only] #1504299
09/20/13 11:43 PM 09/20/13 11:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
My W-2 engine on 87 octane likes 37*.. with the W-5s
on it and 93 octane it liked 40*(on the dyno).. my
W-9 likes 35* on E-85
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: Performance Only] #1504300
09/21/13 11:28 AM 09/21/13 11:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,040
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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Mt Morris Michigan
not sure I fully understand this, but when I ordered up my last Bullet cam they told me cranking compression was free compression. You go by static and dynamic compression for octane requirements. I have 195-206 cranking compression and run my timing at 36* on 93 octane shell with no issues. I'm now thinking next time out I will try 40* and see how it likes it.
The shell v power 93 is the best pump gas we have here and smells like race fuel when I fire the car up in the garage. If you have it in your area you should give it a try with your pump gas engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U

http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: Performance Only] #1504301
09/21/13 10:02 PM 09/21/13 10:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 28
AUSTRALIA
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CLEVO351 Offline OP
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Quote:

There seems to be a pretty common theme to most of the replies here. The OP is asking about timing for a pump gas combo and almost everyone has replied with a racing engine likely running higher octane race gas. Higher octane (maybe too high) needs more timing due to the slower burn.
The engine masters combo is a totally different animal so there's no need to compare that one.


You are the only one that fully understands why i asked this question.

Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CLEVO351] #1504302
09/22/13 12:10 PM 09/22/13 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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At 11.7 CR arn't you close to needing more octane?I agree with Dan that if your going to run 93 you want to less timing.

[IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: B G Racing] #1504303
09/22/13 08:39 PM 09/22/13 08:39 PM
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CLEVO351 Offline OP
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Quote:

At 11.7 CR arn't you close to needing more octane?I agree with Dan that if your going to run 93 you want to less timing.



We are going to run in the engine on pump gas and then do some testing with E85.
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CLEVO351] #1504304
09/23/13 11:51 AM 09/23/13 11:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
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Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Quote:

At 11.7 CR arn't you close to needing more octane?I agree with Dan that if your going to run 93 you want to less timing.



We are going to run in the engine on pump gas and then do some testing with E85.




Why even mess with pump gas,just go to E-85 since it's completely different.Going to pump gas is only going to lessen the performance.At your CR I would baseline it with 104/110 then change to E-85 knowing you need to make changes to flow 25%/30% more.With 11.7 CR I would treat it to better fuel and timing for max power.
I admit I'am not well versed on E-85 and suggest you consult with guys like AJ Casini or others but at your CR level running pump gas and less timing will drop power.If you were in the 10.0 CR range you may do that but at around 12.0 CR you can possibly hurt something or have a substancial power loss.

[IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: B G Racing] #1504305
09/24/13 11:11 AM 09/24/13 11:11 AM
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CLEVO351 Offline OP
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The owner of the engine has 2 carbys 1 for gasoline and 1 for E85 , he wants a tune up for each fuel, the pump gas is for cruising around and the E85 is for racing. Will also dyno test VP-109, if it was up to me i would have built the engine with 14-1 compression and run it on E85 only. But if that what the customer wants thats what you build .

Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CLEVO351] #1504306
09/24/13 12:49 PM 09/24/13 12:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
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Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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What are the cam specs?

machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: Performance Only] #1504307
09/24/13 01:05 PM 09/24/13 01:05 PM
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CLEVO351 Offline OP
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Flat Tappet Solid in 267 ex 276 at .050 LSA= 110
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CLEVO351] #1504308
09/24/13 08:22 PM 09/24/13 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 702
OZ
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CRIKEY Offline
super gas
CRIKEY  Offline
super gas
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OZ
35°-36° on 98
maybe, 1°-2° more on E85 depends whos E85 you use.
I have never seen it need more then 36° on MS109 but at that static it may.
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CRIKEY] #1504309
09/25/13 12:06 AM 09/25/13 12:06 AM
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CLEVO351 Offline OP
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CLEVO351  Offline OP
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Quote:

35°-36° on 98
maybe, 1°-2° more on E85 depends whos E85 you use.
I have never seen it need more then 36° on MS109 but at that static it may.



Was that on Shell 98 or Caltex,What capacity cid ? Did you Dyno and what power did it make? Thanks.

Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CLEVO351] #1504310
09/25/13 12:32 AM 09/25/13 12:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 702
OZ
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CRIKEY Offline
super gas
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super gas
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OZ
416ci with a hand port
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? [Re: CRIKEY] #1504311
09/25/13 10:32 PM 09/25/13 10:32 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,522
Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
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Wedgeman Offline
pro stock
Wedgeman  Offline
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Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
My 408 at 10.9cr is using pump gas ...606hp at 6300 rpm.....37* advance 553lbs at 5100rpm

I will try more advance this week end
Dan
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