Moparts
INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ?
Posted By: CLEVO351
INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 03:43 PM
How much timing does the Indy 360-1 head like with flat top and .040 quench 11.7 to 1 comp on 95 octane, what are your expirences on the dyno.? Do they like projected or regular spark plugs?
Timing will depend on other factors you haven't mentioned, but typically we find they like about 33 degree's total. I use NGK non-projected tips in a heat range compatible with the application. I'd start out with a -7 plug on a street car.
Posted By: W5DART66
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 04:28 PM
Best power on pump gas on my engine masters Indy 360-2 was 42*
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 04:33 PM
Quote:
Timing will depend on other factors you haven't mentioned, but typically we find they like about 33 degree's total. I use NGK non-projected tips in a heat range compatible with the application. I'd start out with a -7 plug on a street car.
What other info would you like ?
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 04:36 PM
on my stock stroke motor it likes 38-40* at the track
Posted By: Ian
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 04:51 PM
Quote:
Timing will depend on other factors you haven't mentioned, but typically we find they like about 33 degree's total. I use NGK non-projected tips in a heat range compatible with the application. I'd start out with a -7 plug on a street car.
same as I run 
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 05:01 PM
Mine loved timing 42* here
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 05:09 PM
I have a 408 11.3 comp with dish pistons and have run it at 35-36*. If i'm reading the plug right it could use alittle more timing.
It really makes me wonder why some of you guys need so much timing. What is so different about your combo with the same identical head that requires it? My guess is it's a Band-Aid to cover up other issues you may not be aware of.
Now, before you chastising me, I've put many Indy heads on small block combo's and I've never had to run more than 35 degrees to make the best power.
as far as reading your plug for timing, perhaps you're just running the wrong plug.
Okay, flame away now.
Posted By: KOS
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 06:22 PM
mine likes 40.......Ryan J made another 75hp on the dyno going from 32-33 to 40ish.i pickup 3 tenths at the track from mid 30s to 40!!!! He told me was the combustion chamber design that liked lots of timming.
Posted By: W5DART66
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 06:31 PM
Quote:
It really makes me wonder why some of you guys need so much timing. What is so different about your combo with the same identical head that requires it? My guess is it's a Band-Aid to cover up other issues you may not be aware of.
Now, before you chastising me, I've put many Indy heads on small block combo's and I've never had to run more than 35 degrees to make the best power.
as far as reading your plug for timing, perhaps you're just running the wrong plug.
Are the engines pump gas?
Okay, flame away now.
Posted By: KOS
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 06:40 PM
13.1compression
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/19/13 06:53 PM
maybe I do have the wrong plug, but this plug(ngk 5671a-7) has stayed the cleanest and looked the best out of the other dozen plugs i'v tried. does a flat top piston generally require different timing than a dish piston? I have a friend that has a 440 small block with chapman w7 heads and has found that 38* works best for him with 11.8 comp.
Posted By: WHITEDART
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 12:02 AM
the 2 sets of 360-1 I had on the dyno made the most at 35 with a flat top piston
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 12:09 AM
how many dyno's have been down the track?
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 12:52 AM
I have built SBF, BBF,SBC most of these engines made best power from 26deg to 30deg of timing,the small blocks made 800hp & the Big block Fords 1050 Hp all tuned on an SF901
engine dyno. Looking at the Indy chamber, im suprised at the amount of timing some of you are running.
Posted By: W5DART66
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 12:52 AM
Jet for best MPH then start adding 1* see how it responds.
Don't get hung up on a number as that's all it is.
My deal was way rich for engine masters that's just how you have to run that deal.
But still it still wanted 38-40* on pump gas in a car and this was 10.75to1 flat top.
Guy on moparts has the engine in a D-50 truck and it runs well.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 01:35 AM
Little different animal, but I put W5 heads on a 11.8 flat top shortblock and they ran best at 40. Turn it back to 36 and it would kill exactly a tenth in back to back passes.
Throw same heads on a 13.3 dome shortblock and ran best at 32
Posted By: KOS
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 01:40 AM
we built my combo to run 9.7s first few times i had it to the track with the timming at 35-36 after tunning the carb and suspension the best it would run was in the 9.9s.i spoke with Ryan first thing he asked is where i had the timming when i told him he said go back kick it up to 40-42 so i did and the car instantly went from 9.9s into the 9.7s with a best of a 9.64.then he told me the story about a dyno session where they where dissapointed of the power a certain indy headed combo made until he tried playing with the timming and picked up 75hp with a 5degree increase which i kinda believe after how much i picked up at the track.
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 01:53 AM
My 408 loved a lot of timing, best was at 37*, but from what I see here, I sould have tried to 38-40 on the dyno....
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 11:51 AM
I Know Brian @ IMM has built a fair few engines with the indy heads, i know his busy but i hope he chimes in on this thread to see what timing he has found these heads like.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 12:21 PM
We generally run 38 to 40 on a race engine,just make sure it's getting enough fuel.
Posted By: DavidDean
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/20/13 11:40 PM
My 360-1 done by Brian @ IMM liked about 35-36* on race gas at Sunset Race Craft. Made 778 on gas.It has gone 5.69 on methanol. I believe it may want a little less timing on methanol looking at the plugs.
Posted By: dc426
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/21/13 12:37 AM
mine loved 40-42
There seems to be a pretty common theme to most of the replies here. The OP is asking about timing for a pump gas combo and almost everyone has replied with a racing engine likely running higher octane race gas. Higher octane (maybe too high) needs more timing due to the slower burn.
The engine masters combo is a totally different animal so there's no need to compare that one.
Quote:
mine loved 40-42
Just a little reminder, I was the one that built the original combo you bought from Mike.
That engine was tuned on 104 octane and had 200 psi cranking compression back in 2003. The best power was made with 34 degree's of timing. Raise the octane and it wouldn't make any more power but it would sure need more timing. Food for thought.
Posted By: D-50
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/21/13 03:39 AM
Quote:
Jet for best MPH then start adding 1* see how it responds.
Don't get hung up on a number as that's all it is.
My deal was way rich for engine masters that's just how you have to run that deal.
But still it still wanted 38-40* on pump gas in a car and this was 10.75to1 flat top.
Guy on moparts has the engine in a D-50 truck and it runs well.
Maybe I should try more timing, I have only been running 35 degrees so far. THANKS Brett.....
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/21/13 03:43 AM
My W-2 engine on 87 octane likes 37*.. with the W-5s
on it and 93 octane it liked 40*(on the dyno).. my
W-9 likes 35* on E-85
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/21/13 03:28 PM
not sure I fully understand this, but when I ordered up my last Bullet cam they told me cranking compression was free compression. You go by static and dynamic compression for octane requirements. I have 195-206 cranking compression and run my timing at 36* on 93 octane shell with no issues. I'm now thinking next time out I will try 40* and see how it likes it.
The shell v power 93 is the best pump gas we have here and smells like race fuel when I fire the car up in the garage. If you have it in your area you should give it a try with your pump gas engine.
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/22/13 02:02 AM
Quote:
There seems to be a pretty common theme to most of the replies here. The OP is asking about timing for a pump gas combo and almost everyone has replied with a racing engine likely running higher octane race gas. Higher octane (maybe too high) needs more timing due to the slower burn.
The engine masters combo is a totally different animal so there's no need to compare that one.
You are the only one that fully understands why i asked this question.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/22/13 04:10 PM
At 11.7 CR arn't you close to needing more octane?I agree with Dan that if your going to run 93 you want to less timing.
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/23/13 12:39 AM
Quote:
At 11.7 CR arn't you close to needing more octane?I agree with Dan that if your going to run 93 you want to less timing.
We are going to run in the engine on pump gas and then do some testing with E85.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/23/13 03:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
At 11.7 CR arn't you close to needing more octane?I agree with Dan that if your going to run 93 you want to less timing.
We are going to run in the engine on pump gas and then do some testing with E85.
Why even mess with pump gas,just go to E-85 since it's completely different.Going to pump gas is only going to lessen the performance.At your CR I would baseline it with 104/110 then change to E-85 knowing you need to make changes to flow 25%/30% more.With 11.7 CR I would treat it to better fuel and timing for max power.
I admit I'am not well versed on E-85 and suggest you consult with guys like AJ Casini or others but at your CR level running pump gas and less timing will drop power.If you were in the 10.0 CR range you may do that but at around 12.0 CR you can possibly hurt something or have a substancial power loss.
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/24/13 03:11 PM
The owner of the engine has 2 carbys 1 for gasoline and 1 for E85 , he wants a tune up for each fuel, the pump gas is for cruising around and the E85 is for racing. Will also dyno test VP-109, if it was up to me i would have built the engine with 14-1 compression and run it on E85 only. But if that what the customer wants thats what you build .
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/24/13 05:05 PM
Flat Tappet Solid in 267 ex 276 at .050 LSA= 110
Posted By: CRIKEY
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/25/13 12:22 AM
35°-36° on 98
maybe, 1°-2° more on E85 depends whos E85 you use.
I have never seen it need more then 36° on MS109 but at that static it may.
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/25/13 04:06 AM
Quote:
35°-36° on 98
maybe, 1°-2° more on E85 depends whos E85 you use.
I have never seen it need more then 36° on MS109 but at that static it may.
Was that on Shell 98 or Caltex,What capacity cid ? Did you Dyno and what power did it make? Thanks. 
Posted By: CRIKEY
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/25/13 04:32 AM
416ci with a hand port
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/26/13 02:32 AM
My 408 at 10.9cr is using pump gas ...606hp at 6300 rpm.....37* advance 553lbs at 5100rpm
I will try more advance this week end
Dan
Posted By: CLEVO351
Re: INDY 360-1 SPARK ADVANCE ? - 09/28/13 02:49 AM
Quote:
My 360-1 done by Brian @ IMM liked about 35-36* on race gas at Sunset Race Craft. Made 778 on gas.It has gone 5.69 on methanol. I believe it may want a little less timing on methanol looking at the plugs.
What compression ratio did this engine have?