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think this may be a problem?
#1503486
09/17/13 10:58 PM
09/17/13 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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so i've been chasing an issue since not long after the engine went in, where it is breaking up, more missing really, at anywhere about 4500-5000, and doesn't have the power it should below that. had issues with the msd box for a while, and while ignition still isn't ruled out, i decided to check my fuel pressure. i bought a carter pump from mancini that was supposed to be calibrated for the carter/edelbrock carbs, so about 5.5 - 6 psi. put a gauge inline today, and it almost immediately jumped to 10 psi, which is pegged on the gauge!  and that was barely above idle! i'll call them tomorrow and see if i have the wrong pump, but i'll have to take of this before i go on. sigh... well, hopefully it will be this easy!
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1503491
09/18/13 10:06 AM
09/18/13 10:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,630
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,630
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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I've had a problem like that. I had the coil mounted on the fender apron, I added a ground from the bracket to the engine and the problem went away.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1503492
09/18/13 11:59 AM
09/18/13 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
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California
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Quote:
Verify your fuel pressure gauge, if it has to much pressure it shouldn't idle worth a hoot, it should load up and die   All the carbs(more than one  ) that I had to much pressure on did
that did seem strange, but we used two different gauges, exactly the same reading.
i figured the result of this would be much worse as well, and can't really explain it.
i just made a new line to one of the carbs from the tee, which consists of a rubber hose with another tee in it, and that tee goes to the gauge, which i have taped to the windshield. nothing wrong there?
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1503493
09/18/13 11:59 AM
09/18/13 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Quote:
I've had a problem like that. I had the coil mounted on the fender apron, I added a ground from the bracket to the engine and the problem went away.
coil is mounted on the intake manifold. hopefully there is no issue there.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503494
09/18/13 12:07 PM
09/18/13 12:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Pressure is a by product of flow versus restriction so instead of getting a lower flowing pump just put one of the Holley regulators in the line to drop the pressure to 6-ish... those carbs do use less pressure than a Holley needle and seat 
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503496
09/18/13 12:35 PM
09/18/13 12:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Quote:
If you`re stuck on the mechanical pump then just install a regulator............. 
that is what i may end up having to do. i have to check the number on the pump to see if it is the right one, and go from there. i talked with mancini and either way i may return and exchange the pump, if it's the race one i don't want it, and if not, it may just be unit that is way off.
i have a stock appearing setup, and was hoping to avoid needing a regulator, which is the reason i paid for this particular pump.
i'm going to temporarily install a regulator and see how it behaves and go from there.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1503499
09/18/13 09:31 PM
09/18/13 09:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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Quote:
I can't remember if we have discussed the needles and seat sizes, have we? If so what size are in your carbs. now? If ther smaller than .090 you may want to change thme to .110 or larger BTW, I have one or two sets of the new Carter .110 left from racing my stocker  
i have thought about that. there is probably no reason not to on an engine this size.
i'm going to get the regulator in there (hopefully tonight) and take things from there. one step at a time.
but i do need two sets, (nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, saaaay no more)!
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1503502
09/19/13 01:58 AM
09/19/13 01:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
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well, got the regulator in.
set it at 6 psi, and took it out for a drive. under full throttle it steadily dropped off until it leveled at about 2psi. that was about 5500, and by then it was breaking up. not falling off, but missing and breaking up, the problem i'm going after.
A/F mixture stayed the same, in the low to mid 12's, even when it was at 2psi.
now at first i thought that was a big deal, but since it actually had pressure, that means there was something that was resisting it, namely closed needles and seats. also, if it truly was unable to keep up with the demand, then it would have gone lean once the pump could no longer keep up can supply the engine with the gas it needed.
make sense? am i off base??
we are going to tackle the ignition next. we're going to put a points distributor back in and eliminate the entire ignition system and go from there.
someone mentioned a rocker arm. i just adjusted the valves, so i know that isn't an issue.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1503503
09/19/13 02:01 AM
09/19/13 02:01 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Quote:
Another thing to check, if you haven't already, on both the Carter and Eddy carbs. is the float drop and float level  I like to have both at the longest travel,lowest float drop and the highest, without dripping or flooding, float level on those two brand and type carbs. 
so how far beyond the stock settings do you go? until it does start dripping or flooding?
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503504
09/19/13 12:44 PM
09/19/13 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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What fuel line sizes r u running.............? Stock tank?
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503505
09/19/13 01:27 PM
09/19/13 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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stock tank, new fuel lines, 3/8" to the pump, 5/16" to the carbs.
now, before anyone jumps all over that as not enough, i'm going by what tim banning does. he uses this setup on all his 572, 750+ HP street bemis, unless the customer asks for something different. it certainly is possible that in my case it isn't enough, and if so i'll figure that out and change it, but there is a proven track record of this combo working, so until i prove it isn't, i'll stick with it.
it looks to me like for whatever reason, the carbs were holding out well against that 10psi most of the time, as it really didn't run differently with the regulator in place.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503506
09/19/13 01:38 PM
09/19/13 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Quote:
stock tank, new fuel lines, 3/8" to the pump, 5/16" to the carbs.
now, before anyone jumps all over that as not enough, i'm going by what tim banning does. he uses this setup on all his 572, 750+ HP street bemis, unless the customer asks for something different. it certainly is possible that in my case it isn't enough, and if so i'll figure that out and change it, but there is a proven track record of this combo working, so until i prove it isn't, i'll stick with it.
it looks to me like for whatever reason, the carbs were holding out well against that 10psi most of the time, as it really didn't run differently with the regulator in place.
Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS.......... You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues........... 
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503507
09/19/13 02:09 PM
09/19/13 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Ive got a Carter Strip pump sitting on the shelf because it wasnt enough pump for my single 800 cfm holly DP 440 509 cam. Thats with 3/8 line front to back and in the tank. Sometimes it would make it down the track other times it would slow down or just fall flat on its face. 10.8,s was the best i could get it to run When it did make a full, or what Felt like a full pass. I finally switched to a electric pump and was rewarded with instant 10.40,s and 10.50,s. Your Pump isnt enough IMHO My little 440 has far less fuel needs then your 570. If you must stick with a mechanical, there is a Better one out there. I forget who makes and sells them at the moment. Robb MC maybe??? Now this is not to say that you still dont have some kind of electrical problem too, you may. But IMO, you have a fuel pump issue also
Last edited by Sport440; 09/19/13 02:15 PM.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503509
09/19/13 02:54 PM
09/19/13 02:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
stock tank, new fuel lines, 3/8" to the pump, 5/16" to the carbs.
now, before anyone jumps all over that as not enough, i'm going by what tim banning does. he uses this setup on all his 572, 750+ HP street bemis, unless the customer asks for something different. it certainly is possible that in my case it isn't enough, and if so i'll figure that out and change it, but there is a proven track record of this combo working, so until i prove it isn't, i'll stick with it.
it looks to me like for whatever reason, the carbs were holding out well against that 10psi most of the time, as it really didn't run differently with the regulator in place.
I sure dont like the pressure dropping to 2 psi BUT
your A/F still shows fat... so what have you looked
at in the ignition... test all of it... what are the
plugs telling you
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503511
09/19/13 03:36 PM
09/19/13 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS.......... You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues...........
i hear what you are saying, don't get me wrong. i have an idea of what i want here, and if i need to do something differently to make it run, i will do it. i just want to exhaust all my options before that.
at this point i haven't ruled out mechanical issues.
on to testing the ignition system, and that will be telltale...
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503513
09/19/13 05:22 PM
09/19/13 05:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS.......... You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues...........
i hear what you are saying, don't get me wrong. i have an idea of what i want here, and if i need to do something differently to make it run, i will do it. i just want to exhaust all my options before that.
at this point i haven't ruled out mechanical issues.
on to testing the ignition system, and that will be telltale...
You can make a Mopar miss at the upper RPM by having it to rich, what plug Numbers are you running and a what gap? I would try leaning the carbs down one jet size on all eight jets BTW, which intake and jetting are you running in your carbs? If your running a stock unmodifed Mopar inline street Hemi intake manifold is the rear carb. paasenger side rear jet a Carter jet # 362 or 365(.062 or .065 hole size)If not try that
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503514
09/19/13 05:39 PM
09/19/13 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I sure dont like the pressure dropping to 2 psi BUT
your A/F still shows fat... so what have you looked
at in the ignition... test all of it... what are the
plugs telling you
plugs are saying fat...
i have looked at everything i can think of in the ignition. i am going to throw a points distributor in it just to rule everything out, and go from there.
Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1503515
09/19/13 05:49 PM
09/19/13 05:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Quote:
Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating
no, and i have been a little suspicious of that. the heads are stage V heads with beehive springs. how do i check for float?
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1503516
09/19/13 05:51 PM
09/19/13 05:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Quote:
You can make a Mopar miss at the upper RPM by having it to rich, what plug Numbers are you running and a what gap? I would try leaning the carbs down one jet size on all eight jets BTW, which intake and jetting are you running in your carbs? If your running a stock unmodifed Mopar inline street Hemi intake manifold is the rear carb. paasenger side rear jet a Carter jet # 362 or 365(.062 or .065 hole size)If not try that
i'm running a stage V intake with 2 edelbrock 650 carbs. it is running mid to low 12's A/F on full throttle, so yes, rich, but not that rich. i don't remember the jets offhand, will have to look it up.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503517
09/19/13 05:52 PM
09/19/13 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
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Quote:
No problem and I hear ya and understand that you`re on a different mission so hopefully you figure it out and get what you`re after.......
thanks, appreciate it. i'll get there somehow!
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503518
09/19/13 05:55 PM
09/19/13 05:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating
no, and i have been a little suspicious of that. the heads are stage V heads with beehive springs. how do i check for float?
Check the spring pressure... I dont know if your springs
could hold the valve even when new... but if they
lost 10# from new specs I would be looking for better
springs..... JMO
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1503521
09/19/13 06:30 PM
09/19/13 06:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS.......... You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues...........
i hear what you are saying, don't get me wrong. i have an idea of what i want here, and if i need to do something differently to make it run, i will do it. i just want to exhaust all my options before that.
at this point i haven't ruled out mechanical issues.
on to testing the ignition system, and that will be telltale...
You can make a Mopar miss at the upper RPM by having it to rich, what plug Numbers are you running and a what gap? I would try leaning the carbs down one jet size on all eight jets BTW, which intake and jetting are you running in your carbs? If your running a stock unmodifed Mopar inline street Hemi intake manifold is the rear carb. paasenger side rear jet a Carter jet # 362 or 365(.062 or .065 hole size)If not try that
I don't think the fuel pump is the problem. Even at 2# you have enough fuel to keep the bowls full on the street. Drive it until it get's really hot and I bet you don't have 10# of fuel pressure without a regulator. I'm saying the pump is good without a regulator because it won't be putting out 10# when it's hot.
What kind plug wires you running? This is a hemi? right? You sure the plugs are fresh and good?
Got to run really good plug wires on a hemi, especially with a hot MSD ignition. They like to arc through the boots on a hemi. Tune up needs to be "on" at high RPMs and it put's heavy load on the ignition. I think that's where your problem lies. Just as long as your sure the lash is right. or pre load. 2 different things.
And I don't think your valves are floating at 4500 rpms or even 5000 rpms. I think that's when you said it starts breaking up.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1503522
09/19/13 07:07 PM
09/19/13 07:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating
no, and i have been a little suspicious of that. the heads are stage V heads with beehive springs. how do i check for float?
Check the spring pressure... I dont know if your springs
could hold the valve even when new... but if they
lost 10# from new specs I would be looking for better
springs..... JMO
Big valve + small spring = crazy ignition like symptoms.
I thought mine sounded like it was bumping off a chip and looked at everything ignition........then chased fuel system problems that didn't exist.
I'd look here before I started throwing money at it.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503523
09/19/13 08:14 PM
09/19/13 08:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I sure dont like the pressure dropping to 2 psi BUT
your A/F still shows fat... so what have you looked
at in the ignition... test all of it... what are the
plugs telling you
plugs are saying fat...
i have looked at everything i can think of in the ignition. i am going to throw a points distributor in it just to rule everything out, and go from there.
Im not really sure you can trust the readings on the A/F or the plugs with the engine misfireing like that.
Its one thing to be lean and showing hot at the plugs. But if it gets lean enough for a misfire ,or very poor misfire on some cylinders, now we have some raw or nearly raw fuel being tossed into the exhaust with the other burning cylinders maybe giving the A/F a false fat reading.
On the plugs, a lean mixture will be white hot, but if that mixture gets lean enough for a poor half burn it can look black and fat too.
I wouldnt trust any of those readings with a multible misfire scenario.
I think your Pump is marginal at best, but I wouldnt rule it out as not being a problem.
Nor would I rule out the springs with valve float or just a actual misfire.
Misfire = raw fuel
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1503524
09/19/13 08:38 PM
09/19/13 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
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Quote:
I don't think the fuel pump is the problem. Even at 2# you have enough fuel to keep the bowls full on the street. Drive it until it get's really hot and I bet you don't have 10# of fuel pressure without a regulator. I'm saying the pump is good without a regulator because it won't be putting out 10# when it's hot.
What kind plug wires you running? This is a hemi? right? You sure the plugs are fresh and good?
Got to run really good plug wires on a hemi, especially with a hot MSD ignition. They like to arc through the boots on a hemi. Tune up needs to be "on" at high RPMs and it put's heavy load on the ignition. I think that's where your problem lies. Just as long as your sure the lash is right. or pre load. 2 different things.
And I don't think your valves are floating at 4500 rpms or even 5000 rpms. I think that's when you said it starts breaking up.
never thought about waiting to check the pressure hot. i'll look at that.
it did seem very, very strange to me that if the pump really was putting out 10 psi, then it wasn't flooding all the time, as sensitive as the edelbrocks are to fuel pressure.
i'm running the firecore wires. they have worked very well for me in the past, i'm assuming they are doing their job.
plugs have been in there since i fired the engine up, about 1200 miles ago... worth a shot.
NGK BPES6, i believe.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503526
09/19/13 08:58 PM
09/19/13 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
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Quote:
What compression...........that #6 is awfully hot.........
10.25 - 10.4:1, depending on the calculator used. aluminum heads.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503528
09/20/13 02:04 AM
09/20/13 02:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
I`d run a #7 myself...............my sig et was w/a #7 and showed a bit of peppering at 12.1.1 compression w/alum. heads.......
can't hurt. new plugs would help eliminate one issue. i'll give it a try.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503530
09/20/13 01:51 PM
09/20/13 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
I hope you figure it out cos this stuff can drive you crazy...........
yea, it does. in reality is's a relatively mild build, just a lot of cubic inches. i did it that way hoping to just be able to drive it with usual maintenance. but, here we go. sigh...
today we are going to put a points distributor in and eliminate the whole current ignition system and go from there.
i'll post the results.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503531
09/20/13 01:56 PM
09/20/13 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Cool...............good luck. Where abouts in Cally r u?
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1503532
09/20/13 02:50 PM
09/20/13 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Cool...............good luck. Where abouts in Cally r u?
bay area, mountain view. 80 miles from the nearest track  better than some have it i know, but it makes for a long day...
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503534
09/20/13 08:31 PM
09/20/13 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope you figure it out cos this stuff can drive you crazy...........
yea, it does. in reality is's a relatively mild build, just a lot of cubic inches. i did it that way hoping to just be able to drive it with usual maintenance. but, here we go. sigh...
today we are going to put a points distributor in and eliminate the whole current ignition system and go from there.
i'll post the results.
Any results yet>
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: Sport440]
#1503535
09/21/13 12:11 AM
09/21/13 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I hope you figure it out cos this stuff can drive you crazy...........
yea, it does. in reality is's a relatively mild build, just a lot of cubic inches. i did it that way hoping to just be able to drive it with usual maintenance. but, here we go. sigh...
today we are going to put a points distributor in and eliminate the whole current ignition system and go from there.
i'll post the results.
Any results yet>
no, didn't get a chance to get it in.
how do i wire a temporary ballast resistor? i only need this in long enough to get the points distributor in and drive the car for a few minutes. if the problem persists, i need to look elsewhere, but if it is gone, i know it is in the current ignition.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503537
09/21/13 12:41 AM
09/21/13 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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For a test you dont need one. You could use the one you have by disconnecting the electronic ignition feed with a 12 volt positive feed. But I would just feed a direct 12 volt positive to the coil for max performance for the test. The stock ignition setup sends full voltage to the coil on the start up position and then sends reduced voltage to the coil on run position through the ballast for Extended point life. Since your just doing a short test, no ballast resister is needed. Your simple test can be as easy as removing the electronic coil feed and replacing it with a hot positive feed jumper with the "test" points distributer. No need to rewire everything Simply put, with a point distributer all you need is 12 volts pos to the pos side of the coil and run the neg. side of the coil to the distributer that will ground it out when the points contact.
Last edited by Sport440; 09/21/13 12:50 AM.
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Re: think this may be a problem?
[Re: mickm]
#1503540
09/22/13 10:59 PM
09/22/13 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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ok. $20 napa coil, 40 year old accel dual point distributor, and it ran like the proverbial raped ape! feathered into it, hit 6k in first gear and the tires broke loose! ran it through 1st and 2nd a few times, was so happy to have the engine back again! damn that was fun!   put the msd coil back on and it stumbled and fell all over the place. tried it through the ballast resistor and straight 12v, and it was even worse. why it wasn't acting that bad with the msd, i don't know, but at least for the moment, that looks like it. so going to order a new coil and see what happens... will post again... so why do we run electoric ignition and these msd boxes?
Last edited by mickm; 09/22/13 11:00 PM.
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