think this may be a problem?

Posted By: mickm

think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 02:58 AM

so i've been chasing an issue since not long after the engine went in, where it is breaking up, more missing really, at anywhere about 4500-5000, and doesn't have the power it should below that.

had issues with the msd box for a while, and while ignition still isn't ruled out, i decided to check my fuel pressure.

i bought a carter pump from mancini that was supposed to be calibrated for the carter/edelbrock carbs, so about 5.5 - 6 psi.

put a gauge inline today, and it almost immediately jumped to 10 psi, which is pegged on the gauge!

and that was barely above idle!

i'll call them tomorrow and see if i have the wrong pump, but i'll have to take of this before i go on.

sigh... well, hopefully it will be this easy!

Posted By: jamesc

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 03:07 AM

can't say if that's your problem but if the gauge is accurate 10# would certainly be suspect of causing problems. even if that isn't the issue it should be corrected.

does the engine run properly above that speed?

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 03:16 AM

actually tried two different gauges.

engine runs fine, but is missing when i lay into it. sometimes it's barely noticeable, and sometimes it if very obvious, usually above 5 k.

did a burn out in front of the house the other day, and the neighbor, a drag racer, said it sounded like it was missing.

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 03:25 AM

just looked on mancini's site. the number on my invoice matches the 5.5 -6 psi pump. and listed right next to it is the strip pump that does 6.9 to 9.5 psi.

hmmmm....

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 04:42 AM

Verify your fuel pressure gauge, if it has to much pressure it shouldn't idle worth a hoot, it should load up and die

All the carbs(more than one

) that I had to much pressure on did

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 02:06 PM

I've had a problem like that. I had the coil mounted on the fender apron, I added a ground from the bracket to the engine and the problem went away.

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 03:59 PM

Quote:

Verify your fuel pressure gauge, if it has to much pressure it shouldn't idle worth a hoot, it should load up and die All the carbs(more than one ) that I had to much pressure on did

that did seem strange, but we used two different gauges, exactly the same reading.

i figured the result of this would be much worse as well, and can't really explain it.

i just made a new line to one of the carbs from the tee, which consists of a rubber hose with another tee in it, and that tee goes to the gauge, which i have taped to the windshield. nothing wrong there?

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 03:59 PM

Quote:

I've had a problem like that. I had the coil mounted on the fender apron, I added a ground from the bracket to the engine and the problem went away.

coil is mounted on the intake manifold. hopefully there is no issue there.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 04:07 PM

Pressure is a by product of flow versus restriction
so instead of getting a lower flowing pump just put
one of the Holley regulators in the line to drop the
pressure to 6-ish... those carbs do use less pressure
than a Holley needle and seat

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 04:28 PM

If you`re stuck on the mechanical pump then just install a regulator.............

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 04:35 PM

Quote:

If you`re stuck on the mechanical pump then just install a regulator.............

that is what i may end up having to do. i have to check the number on the pump to see if it is the right one, and go from there. i talked with mancini and either way i may return and exchange the pump, if it's the race one i don't want it, and if not, it may just be unit that is way off.

i have a stock appearing setup, and was hoping to avoid needing a regulator, which is the reason i paid for this particular pump.

i'm going to temporarily install a regulator and see how it behaves and go from there.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 04:47 PM

Like Mike said, could be a restriction creating the added pressure. I personally wouldn`t ever run a mechanical pump for many reasons but I understand yours.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/18/13 06:41 PM

I can't remember if we have discussed the needles and seat sizes, have we? If so what size are in your carbs. now? If ther smaller than .090 you may want to change thme to .110 or larger

BTW, I have one or two sets of the new Carter .110 left from racing my stocker

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 01:31 AM

Quote:

I can't remember if we have discussed the needles and seat sizes, have we? If so what size are in your carbs. now? If ther smaller than .090 you may want to change thme to .110 or larger BTW, I have one or two sets of the new Carter .110 left from racing my stocker

i have thought about that. there is probably no reason not to on an engine this size.

i'm going to get the regulator in there (hopefully tonight) and take things from there. one step at a time.

but i do need two sets, (nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, saaaay no more)!

Posted By: dagohman

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 03:30 AM

My car was busting up bad under a load, turned out to be a broke rocker arm. It was cracked and still riding on the shaft, the car would actually idle fine, but under a load, it was bad.....Just something to check if you have not already

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 03:57 AM

Another thing to check, if you haven't already, on both the Carter and Eddy carbs. is the float drop and float level

I like to have both at the longest travel,lowest float drop and the highest, without dripping or flooding, float level on those two brand and type carbs.

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 05:58 AM

well, got the regulator in.

set it at 6 psi, and took it out for a drive. under full throttle it steadily dropped off until it leveled at about 2psi. that was about 5500, and by then it was breaking up. not falling off, but missing and breaking up, the problem i'm going after.

A/F mixture stayed the same, in the low to mid 12's, even when it was at 2psi.

now at first i thought that was a big deal, but since it actually had pressure, that means there was something that was resisting it, namely closed needles and seats. also, if it truly was unable to keep up with the demand, then it would have gone lean once the pump could no longer keep up can supply the engine with the gas it needed.

make sense? am i off base??

we are going to tackle the ignition next. we're going to put a points distributor back in and eliminate the entire ignition system and go from there.

someone mentioned a rocker arm. i just adjusted the valves, so i know that isn't an issue.

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 06:01 AM

Quote:

Another thing to check, if you haven't already, on both the Carter and Eddy carbs. is the float drop and float level I like to have both at the longest travel,lowest float drop and the highest, without dripping or flooding, float level on those two brand and type carbs.

so how far beyond the stock settings do you go? until it does start dripping or flooding?

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 04:44 PM

What fuel line sizes r u running.............? Stock tank?

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 05:27 PM

stock tank, new fuel lines, 3/8" to the pump, 5/16" to the carbs.

now, before anyone jumps all over that as not enough, i'm going by what tim banning does. he uses this setup on all his 572, 750+ HP street bemis, unless the customer asks for something different. it certainly is possible that in my case it isn't enough, and if so i'll figure that out and change it, but there is a proven track record of this combo working, so until i prove it isn't, i'll stick with it.

it looks to me like for whatever reason, the carbs were holding out well against that 10psi most of the time, as it really didn't run differently with the regulator in place.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 05:38 PM

Quote:

stock tank, new fuel lines, 3/8" to the pump, 5/16" to the carbs.

now, before anyone jumps all over that as not enough, i'm going by what tim banning does. he uses this setup on all his 572, 750+ HP street bemis, unless the customer asks for something different. it certainly is possible that in my case it isn't enough, and if so i'll figure that out and change it, but there is a proven track record of this combo working, so until i prove it isn't, i'll stick with it.

it looks to me like for whatever reason, the carbs were holding out well against that 10psi most of the time, as it really didn't run differently with the regulator in place.

Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS..........

You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues...........

Posted By: Sport440

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 06:09 PM

Ive got a Carter Strip pump sitting on the shelf because it wasnt enough pump for my single 800 cfm holly DP 440 509 cam. Thats with 3/8 line front to back and in the tank.

Sometimes it would make it down the track other times it would slow down or just fall flat on its face. 10.8,s was the best i could get it to run When it did make a full, or what Felt like a full pass.

I finally switched to a electric pump and was rewarded with instant 10.40,s and 10.50,s. Your Pump isnt enough IMHO My little 440 has far less fuel needs then your 570.

If you must stick with a mechanical, there is a Better one out there. I forget who makes and sells them at the moment. Robb MC maybe???

Now this is not to say that you still dont have some kind of electrical problem too, you may. But IMO, you have a fuel pump issue also

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 06:13 PM

Quote:

Ive got a Carter Strip pump sitting on the shelf because it wasnt enough pump for my single 800 cfm holly DP 440 509 cam. Thats with 3/8 line front to back and in the tank.

Sometimes it would make it down the track other times it would slow down or just fall flat on its face. 10.8,s was the best i could get it to run When it did make a full, or what Felt like a full pass.

I finally switched to a electric pump and was rewarded with instant 10.40,s and 10.50,s. Your Pump isnt enough IMHO My little 440 has far less fuel needs then your 570.

If you must stick with a mechanical, there is a Batter one out there. I forget who makes and sells them at the moment. Robb MC maybe???

Now this is not to say that you still dont have some kind of electrical too, you may. But IMO, you have a fuel pump issue too

Thankxxxx............someone who gets it........

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 06:54 PM

Quote:

stock tank, new fuel lines, 3/8" to the pump, 5/16" to the carbs.

now, before anyone jumps all over that as not enough, i'm going by what tim banning does. he uses this setup on all his 572, 750+ HP street bemis, unless the customer asks for something different. it certainly is possible that in my case it isn't enough, and if so i'll figure that out and change it, but there is a proven track record of this combo working, so until i prove it isn't, i'll stick with it.

it looks to me like for whatever reason, the carbs were holding out well against that 10psi most of the time, as it really didn't run differently with the regulator in place.

I sure dont like the pressure dropping to 2 psi BUT
your A/F still shows fat... so what have you looked
at in the ignition... test all of it... what are the
plugs telling you

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 07:32 PM

Quote:

I sure dont like the pressure dropping to 2 psi BUT
your A/F still shows fat... so what have you looked
at in the ignition... test all of it... what are the
plugs telling you

plugs are saying fat...

i have looked at everything i can think of in the ignition. i am going to throw a points distributor in it just to rule everything out, and go from there.

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 07:36 PM

Quote:

Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS.......... You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues...........

i hear what you are saying, don't get me wrong. i have an idea of what i want here, and if i need to do something differently to make it run, i will do it. i just want to exhaust all my options before that.

at this point i haven't ruled out mechanical issues.

on to testing the ignition system, and that will be telltale...

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 07:44 PM

No problem and I hear ya and understand that you`re on a different mission so hopefully you figure it out and get what you`re after.......

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 09:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS.......... You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues...........

i hear what you are saying, don't get me wrong. i have an idea of what i want here, and if i need to do something differently to make it run, i will do it. i just want to exhaust all my options before that.

at this point i haven't ruled out mechanical issues.

on to testing the ignition system, and that will be telltale...

You can make a Mopar miss at the upper RPM by having it to rich, what plug Numbers are you running and a what gap? I would try leaning the carbs down one jet size on all eight jets

BTW, which intake and jetting are you running in your carbs? If your running a stock unmodifed Mopar inline street Hemi intake manifold is the rear carb. paasenger side rear jet a Carter jet # 362 or 365(.062 or .065 hole size)If not try that

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 09:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I sure dont like the pressure dropping to 2 psi BUT
your A/F still shows fat... so what have you looked
at in the ignition... test all of it... what are the
plugs telling you

plugs are saying fat...

i have looked at everything i can think of in the ignition. i am going to throw a points distributor in it just to rule everything out, and go from there.

Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 09:49 PM

Quote:

Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating

no, and i have been a little suspicious of that. the heads are stage V heads with beehive springs. how do i check for float?

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 09:51 PM

Quote:

You can make a Mopar miss at the upper RPM by having it to rich, what plug Numbers are you running and a what gap? I would try leaning the carbs down one jet size on all eight jets BTW, which intake and jetting are you running in your carbs? If your running a stock unmodifed Mopar inline street Hemi intake manifold is the rear carb. paasenger side rear jet a Carter jet # 362 or 365(.062 or .065 hole size)If not try that

i'm running a stage V intake with 2 edelbrock 650 carbs. it is running mid to low 12's A/F on full throttle, so yes, rich, but not that rich. i don't remember the jets offhand, will have to look it up.

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 09:52 PM

Quote:

No problem and I hear ya and understand that you`re on a different mission so hopefully you figure it out and get what you`re after.......

thanks, appreciate it. i'll get there somehow!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 09:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating

no, and i have been a little suspicious of that. the heads are stage V heads with beehive springs. how do i check for float?

Check the spring pressure... I dont know if your springs
could hold the valve even when new... but if they
lost 10# from new specs I would be looking for better
springs..... JMO

Posted By: cudasteve68

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 10:10 PM

I had one of them carter pumps on my street car. It to had 3/8" line. I had same issues. I just put an old Holley Blue Pump in the rear & used the carter pump as my regulator. I wired the pump into my map light switch. Do not forget to turn it on at the track. It really sucks when the car falls on its face half threw first gear.

Attached picture 7858553-71DART.jpg

Posted By: cudasteve68

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 10:10 PM

I had one of them carter pumps on my street car. It to had 3/8" line. I had same issues. I just put an old Holley Blue Pump in the rear & used the carter pump as my regulator. I wired the pump into my map light switch. Do not forget to turn it on at the track.
The dart only had a little 360 & ran 12.0s

Attached picture 7858554-71DART.jpg

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 10:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Sounds like you`re stuck on this because of what someone else does and IF it works that`s fine but if it doesn`t then you have problems. STREET HEMIS.......... You mean "non raced" poser hemis? Don`t have much to say except if it was my deal I`d put a real(elec.)pump w/some volume and some big azz fuel lines and let that thing eat..........that`s just me heck my 360 liked 1/2" lines and a bigger pump and it only went high 11`s. Hope u figre it out cos I think I already did unless you have some mechanical issues...........

i hear what you are saying, don't get me wrong. i have an idea of what i want here, and if i need to do something differently to make it run, i will do it. i just want to exhaust all my options before that.

at this point i haven't ruled out mechanical issues.

on to testing the ignition system, and that will be telltale...

You can make a Mopar miss at the upper RPM by having it to rich, what plug Numbers are you running and a what gap? I would try leaning the carbs down one jet size on all eight jets BTW, which intake and jetting are you running in your carbs? If your running a stock unmodifed Mopar inline street Hemi intake manifold is the rear carb. paasenger side rear jet a Carter jet # 362 or 365(.062 or .065 hole size)If not try that

I don't think the fuel pump is the problem. Even at 2# you have enough fuel to keep the bowls full on the street. Drive it until it get's really hot and I bet you don't have 10# of fuel pressure without a regulator. I'm saying the pump is good without a regulator because it won't be putting out 10# when it's hot.

What kind plug wires you running? This is a hemi? right? You sure the plugs are fresh and good?

Got to run really good plug wires on a hemi, especially with a hot MSD ignition. They like to arc through the boots on a hemi. Tune up needs to be "on" at high RPMs and it put's heavy load on the ignition. I think that's where your problem lies.

Just as long as your sure the lash is right. or pre load. 2 different things.

And I don't think your valves are floating at 4500 rpms or even 5000 rpms. I think that's when you said it starts breaking up.

Posted By: tubtar

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/19/13 11:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Since it always seems to be at one point even with
changes... have you checked the valve springs for
floating

no, and i have been a little suspicious of that. the heads are stage V heads with beehive springs. how do i check for float?

Check the spring pressure... I dont know if your springs
could hold the valve even when new... but if they
lost 10# from new specs I would be looking for better
springs..... JMO

Big valve + small spring = crazy ignition like symptoms.
I thought mine sounded like it was bumping off a chip and looked at everything ignition........then chased fuel system problems that didn't exist.
I'd look here before I started throwing money at it.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 12:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I sure dont like the pressure dropping to 2 psi BUT
your A/F still shows fat... so what have you looked
at in the ignition... test all of it... what are the
plugs telling you

plugs are saying fat...

i have looked at everything i can think of in the ignition. i am going to throw a points distributor in it just to rule everything out, and go from there.

Im not really sure you can trust the readings on the A/F or the plugs with the engine misfireing like that.

Its one thing to be lean and showing hot at the plugs. But if it gets lean enough for a misfire ,or very poor misfire on some cylinders, now we have some raw or nearly raw fuel being tossed into the exhaust with the other burning cylinders maybe giving the A/F a false fat reading.

On the plugs, a lean mixture will be white hot, but if that mixture gets lean enough for a poor half burn it can look black and fat too.

I wouldnt trust any of those readings with a multible misfire scenario.

I think your Pump is marginal at best, but I wouldnt rule it out as not being a problem.

Nor would I rule out the springs with valve float or just a actual misfire.

Misfire = raw fuel

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 12:38 AM

Quote:

I don't think the fuel pump is the problem. Even at 2# you have enough fuel to keep the bowls full on the street. Drive it until it get's really hot and I bet you don't have 10# of fuel pressure without a regulator. I'm saying the pump is good without a regulator because it won't be putting out 10# when it's hot.

What kind plug wires you running? This is a hemi? right? You sure the plugs are fresh and good?

Got to run really good plug wires on a hemi, especially with a hot MSD ignition. They like to arc through the boots on a hemi. Tune up needs to be "on" at high RPMs and it put's heavy load on the ignition. I think that's where your problem lies. Just as long as your sure the lash is right. or pre load. 2 different things.

And I don't think your valves are floating at 4500 rpms or even 5000 rpms. I think that's when you said it starts breaking up.

never thought about waiting to check the pressure hot. i'll look at that.

it did seem very, very strange to me that if the pump really was putting out 10 psi, then it wasn't flooding all the time, as sensitive as the edelbrocks are to fuel pressure.

i'm running the firecore wires. they have worked very well for me in the past, i'm assuming they are doing their job.

plugs have been in there since i fired the engine up, about 1200 miles ago... worth a shot.

NGK BPES6, i believe.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 12:44 AM

What compression...........that #6 is awfully hot.........

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 12:58 AM

Quote:

What compression...........that #6 is awfully hot.........

10.25 - 10.4:1, depending on the calculator used. aluminum heads.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 01:01 AM

I`d run a #7 myself...............my sig et was w/a #7 and showed a bit of peppering at 12.1.1 compression w/alum. heads.......

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 06:04 AM

Quote:

I`d run a #7 myself...............my sig et was w/a #7 and showed a bit of peppering at 12.1.1 compression w/alum. heads.......

can't hurt. new plugs would help eliminate one issue. i'll give it a try.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 04:59 PM

I hope you figure it out cos this stuff can drive you crazy...........

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 05:51 PM

Quote:

I hope you figure it out cos this stuff can drive you crazy...........

yea, it does. in reality is's a relatively mild build, just a lot of cubic inches. i did it that way hoping to just be able to drive it with usual maintenance. but, here we go. sigh...

today we are going to put a points distributor in and eliminate the whole current ignition system and go from there.

i'll post the results.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 05:56 PM

Cool...............good luck. Where abouts in Cally r u?

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/20/13 06:50 PM

Quote:

Cool...............good luck. Where abouts in Cally r u?

bay area, mountain view. 80 miles from the nearest track

better than some have it i know, but it makes for a long day...

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/21/13 12:05 AM

Gotcha...............every track is miles from me and I don`t have a truck and trailer so I rely on others which sucks so I don`t race much anymore and that`s fine w/me cos driving on the street beats racing any day...........

Posted By: Sport440

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/21/13 12:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I hope you figure it out cos this stuff can drive you crazy...........

yea, it does. in reality is's a relatively mild build, just a lot of cubic inches. i did it that way hoping to just be able to drive it with usual maintenance. but, here we go. sigh...

today we are going to put a points distributor in and eliminate the whole current ignition system and go from there.

i'll post the results.

Any results yet>

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/21/13 04:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I hope you figure it out cos this stuff can drive you crazy...........

yea, it does. in reality is's a relatively mild build, just a lot of cubic inches. i did it that way hoping to just be able to drive it with usual maintenance. but, here we go. sigh...

today we are going to put a points distributor in and eliminate the whole current ignition system and go from there.

i'll post the results.

Any results yet>

no, didn't get a chance to get it in.

how do i wire a temporary ballast resistor? i only need this in long enough to get the points distributor in and drive the car for a few minutes. if the problem persists, i need to look elsewhere, but if it is gone, i know it is in the current ignition.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/21/13 04:34 AM

how do i wire a temporary ballast resistor? i only need this in long enough to get the points distributor in and drive the car for a few minutes. if the problem persists, i need to look elsewhere, but if it is gone, i know it is in the current ignition.

Here is a simple wiring diagram
EDIT
For a points dist you only have the one wire out of
the dist .. that goes to the - coil... the rest in
the diagram are the same

Posted By: Sport440

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/21/13 04:41 AM

For a test you dont need one. You could use the one you have by disconnecting the electronic ignition feed with a 12 volt positive feed.

But I would just feed a direct 12 volt positive to the coil for max performance for the test.

The stock ignition setup sends full voltage to the coil on the start up position and then sends reduced voltage to the coil on run position through the ballast for Extended point life. Since your just doing a short test, no ballast resister is needed.

Your simple test can be as easy as removing the electronic coil feed and replacing it with a hot positive feed jumper with the "test" points distributer. No need to rewire everything

Simply put, with a point distributer all you need is 12 volts pos to the pos side of the coil and run the neg. side of the coil to the distributer that will ground it out when the points contact.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/21/13 03:31 PM

How are you reading the plugs?

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/21/13 10:16 PM

got the old accell dual point distrubutor with a stock coil put back in. fired it up, and set the timing.

and...

it rained. first rain of the season came about an hour before we finished up. don't think today is the day to take the car out and see if it's breaking up above 5500 rpm.

will keep you posted...

Posted By: mickm

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/23/13 02:59 AM

ok. $20 napa coil, 40 year old accel dual point distributor, and it ran like the proverbial raped ape! feathered into it, hit 6k in first gear and the tires broke loose! ran it through 1st and 2nd a few times, was so happy to have the engine back again! damn that was fun!

put the msd coil back on and it stumbled and fell all over the place. tried it through the ballast resistor and straight 12v, and it was even worse. why it wasn't acting that bad with the msd, i don't know, but at least for the moment, that looks like it.

so going to order a new coil and see what happens... will post again...

so why do we run electoric ignition and these msd boxes?

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: think this may be a problem? - 09/23/13 03:08 AM

Well, that's good news, glad you found it.

Sheldon