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Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: 72Swinger] #1492564 08/30/13 12:43 AM 08/30/13 12:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	T-bar crossmember is 2x1/2x1/4" C-channel that is plated underneath the bends. 7832906-029.JPG (372 downloads) Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: 72Swinger] #1492565 08/30/13 12:44 AM 08/30/13 12:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Rear of it 7832907-028.JPG (519 downloads) Last edited by 72Swinger; 08/30/13 12:45 AM. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: 72Swinger] #1492566 08/30/13 12:46 AM 08/30/13 12:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Underneath 7832908-001.JPG (264 downloads) Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: PHJ426] #1492567 08/30/13 12:47 AM 08/30/13 12:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,525 Eastern shore, New England R roadrunner69s pro stock
roadrunner69s pro stock R Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,525 Eastern shore, New England	I know the Tremec T56's made in Mexico from 1998-2004 are somewhat weak on forks and synchros...at least compared to the T56's that were built in earlier years by Borg-Warner. I don't know if the quality has improved since then. If using one of these I'd insure that all the earlier weak links were taken out on the rebuild. To me, T56's can be a litte rattly with various whines specific to each build. I don't know what quality the factory is putting out on these for new aftermarket builds. Other than for highway cruising at >65 mph the 6th gear (with 3.55 or lower ratio) has limited use. I have 3.42's and 1st through 4th covers about 98% of all my driving. With real stiff rear gears 5th and 6th probably become a lot more handy. I know that having that extra 6th gear slot has lead to occasional missed shifts in either direction. My favorite is going from 3rd to 6th and losing all power. And 6th to 3rd at highway speed to climb a hill can be fun too, though pretty rare. Sometimes I wish 6th weren't there so those 3-4 or 6-5 shifts weren't as "missable."

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: 72Swinger] #1492568 08/30/13 12:51 AM 08/30/13 12:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	18 gauge sheet for tunnel. 7832911-003.JPG (224 downloads) Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: roadrunner69s] #1492569 08/30/13 01:00 AM 08/30/13 01:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Quote: I know the Tremec T56's made in Mexico from 1998-2004 are somewhat weak on forks and synchros...at least compared to the T56's that were built in earlier years by Borg-Warner. I don't know if the quality has improved since then. If using one of these I'd insure that all the earlier weak links were taken out on the rebuild. To me, T56's can be a litte rattly with various whines specific to each build. I don't know what quality the factory is putting out on these for new aftermarket builds. Other than for highway cruising at >65 mph the 6th gear (with 3.55 or lower ratio) has limited use. I have 3.42's and 1st through 4th covers about 98% of all my driving. With real stiff rear gears 5th and 6th probably become a lot more handy. The Magnums are made in South America somewhere to this day. I know the GM T56's used lighter duty parts everywhere possible, like the forks in those were pot metal or aluminum and Vipers always used steel. And I agree quality control at BW was probably head and shoulders above Mexico. Im not here to defend T56's, I only own one. But before I bought mine I did a ton of research and got alot of info from a guy who maintained/built the transmissions for the Woodhouse Viper race effort. The biggest thing he kept making a point of is the clearances and setup is crucial to shift quality and the life of them as a whole. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: 72Swinger] #1492570 08/30/13 09:07 AM 08/30/13 09:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,988 Warren, MI J Jerry master
Jerry master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,988 Warren, MI	ok this is probably a stupid question, but what do you do about carpet after you cut the floor all to bit and stretch to stuff the T56 in? can stock carpet be remolded or do you need something different? Superior Design Concepts 2574 Elliott Dr Troy MI 48083 jerry@sdconcepts.com www.sdconcepts.com Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts www.bcrproducts.com

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: Jerry] #1492571 08/30/13 10:29 AM 08/30/13 10:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia J jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia	Has the richmond 5 spd lost all favor in this discussion? Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: Jerry] #1492572 08/30/13 10:37 AM 08/30/13 10:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Quote: ok this is probably a stupid question, but what do you do about carpet after you cut the floor all to bit and stretch to stuff the T56 in? can stock carpet be remolded or do you need something different? I re-used the carpet that was already in the car. It had to re-mold itself back in the footwells a little but its good to go. My cross member was made like it was for this reason, to keep the tunnel height at a minimum. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: jcc] #1492573 08/30/13 03:57 PM 08/30/13 03:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	Quote: Has the richmond 5 spd lost all favor in this discussion? isn't the richmond a 1:1 5th gear, making it an ideal "race only" transmission? the question here is about the Passion OD trans vs the T56, an OD trans. anyway, I love the T56. I have one in my Dakota and don't have any complaints. Now, for the 3rd generation Dakota, it truely is a "bolt in" transmission, no sheetmetal modification required. that said, I spent $1500 in the transmission off Ebay (used Viper spec T56) the quicktime bell was about $500, and then I got a custom flywheel made that had the tone ring for the factory EFI, cost me about $500. (non EFI motors can use a much cheaper flywheel option) and I have about $250 in my clutch. the hydraulics are a hybrid of the SRT-10 truck hydrualic bearing (yes, slightly different than the viper part) and the stock Dakota master cylinder. it was a pretty simple swap that if I had a factory 5-spd truck and the parts, I could knock it out in a day. If I had to start with an auto truck that needed a hole cut, and pedals added, then I would venture to say that it might take me a day and a half to 2 days. Photobucket sucks

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1492574 08/30/13 04:15 PM 08/30/13 04:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country T TC@HP2 master
TC@HP2 master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country	Quote: Quote: Has the richmond 5 spd lost all favor in this discussion? isn't the richmond a 1:1 5th gear, making it an ideal "race only" transmission? No, not necessarily. It simply allows you to reduce rear end ratios and use "economy" gear sets like 2:94, 3:08, and 3:23, which a lot of guys have kicking around as throw aways.

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: TC@HP2] #1492575 08/30/13 07:07 PM 08/30/13 07:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,043 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,043 Oregon	I have a Doug Nash 4+1 in my '65 Coronet. I was probably one of the first guys to do a 5 speed swap into a Mopar. I put the Doug Nash in my car about 30 years ago. I don't recall the serial number on the trans put it was an early one. It was more work than I could handle at the time but it was fairly simple for a local street rod guy. He moved the shifter box in the tunnel and made some mods to the crossmember. The linkage had to be custom built and there were a few other odds and ends.

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: AndyF] #1492576 09/09/13 04:55 PM 09/09/13 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,545 Seattle, WA 3 375inStroke Special needs person
375inStroke Special needs person 3 Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,545 Seattle, WA	New A-855 AVAILABLE SOON! When?

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: 375inStroke] #1492577 09/09/13 05:35 PM 09/09/13 05:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 10,645 Houston, Tx A AlexP I Live Here
AlexP I Live Here A Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 10,645 Houston, Tx	The biggest advantage for the T56 is the fact that it exists. My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin! 1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: AlexP] #1492578 09/09/13 07:16 PM 09/09/13 07:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 126 mass K kotacars member
kotacars member K Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 126 mass	Quote: The biggest advantage for the T56 is the fact that it exists. price I got a 2005 viper t56 6spd with 3,000 miles on it I know because I took it out of the car for 1,700 dollars then I put it behind my 600 hp small block now I have miles of smiles lol

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: PHJ426] #1492579 09/09/13 08:48 PM 09/09/13 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,836 Detroit boy in Saugerties, NY BrianShaughnessy master
BrianShaughnessy master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,836 Detroit boy in Saugerties, NY	I put a T56 in my old 89 Firebird after taking out a T5... so much happier. It was from a 95 TA / 2.66 1st, .5 6th. 3.70 gears in the car... it's awesome. If anything tho a .62 6th gear would be better. .5 is just too much. The TKO600 made me so much happier than rowing the 833 in the Charger... the only perceivable problem is the big drop from 4th to 5th with the .64 5th and 3.73 gears. Somewhere between 45 to 50 mph I start thinking about upshifting but I really need to wait till 55ish. If you got the guts I'd do the T56... I sorta wish I did myself. If you got a friend with a T56 equipped car I'd recommend taking one for a ride just to try it out. Black Betty: '69 Charger RT: 440 6 pack, TKO600 5 speed, 3.73 Dana. Sinnamon: '69 Charger RT: 440, 727, 4.30 8.75. High School Sweetheart. El Grande: '98 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited.

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: BrianShaughnessy] #1492580 09/09/13 09:21 PM 09/09/13 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Quote: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? None that I can see, that's comparing apples to oranges IMO. The Passon is a bolt in 5 speed with ZERO hacking required to install it (The Passon is all alone in this niche, there is no competition) plus the Passon uses the stock bell housing, clutch, drive shaft, shifter location, etc. For an original car I don't see that there are any other good choices.

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1492581 09/09/13 10:05 PM 09/09/13 10:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States P PHJ426 OP master
PHJ426 OP master P Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States	If a car has a 5 speed installed does that make it "not original"? I do understand your point on the cutting the floor and trans/torsion bar mount cross member. There has to be a point where an all original car is 100% original things like Detroit Air in the spare and so on. My question should have probably been more specific like is it really necessary to have 6 speeds instead of 5 in a car that gets driven on the street to get to the track or high speed driving event .......not for a concourse show car.

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: PHJ426] #1492582 09/09/13 10:49 PM 09/09/13 10:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal RylisPro top fuel
RylisPro top fuel Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,432 NorCal	Quote: My question should have probably been more specific like is it really necessary to have 6 speeds instead of 5 in a car that gets driven on the street to get to the track or high speed driving event .......not for a concourse show car. No, it is not NEEDED to have a 6 speed but I had one installed because I have always WANTED one in my car. My other car is a 6 speed and I would not have been happy with any less gears. I saved up my money for a long time and went ahead with the install before I got to spend it on anything else. Believe me I was on the fence about the install but I figured you only live once and said screw it what do I got to lose?! I did notice that my gas mileage went up though! 73 `Cuda Instagram: @rylispro YouTube: RylisPro www.rylispro.com 925-214-9192

Re: Advantages of T56 over Passion 5 speed? [Re: PHJ426] #1492583 09/09/13 10:53 PM 09/09/13 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Quote: If a car has a 5 speed installed does that make it "not original"? I do understand your point on the cutting the floor and trans/torsion bar mount cross member. You just answered your own question. Quote: There has to be a point where an all original car is 100% original things like Detroit Air in the spare and so on. Not sure what your question is on that one? Quote: My question should have probably been more specific like is it really necessary to have 6 speeds instead of 5 in a car that gets driven on the street to get to the track or high speed driving event .......not for a concourse show car. In my experience a 6 speed won't offer much real world advantage over 5 speed for a driver or occasional track car. What I like about the Passon 5 speed is simply this; If someone has a stock car with a body that hasn't been modified in any way and who wants to install a transmission which will allow the car to be more fun to drive he can do so with no worries about originality, and that's because it's a simple bolt in to swap back the stock original without worrying about body work on the floors and tunnel. The rarer and more desirable the car, the more this matters to some.

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