engine noise, going to shoot my car.
#1482913
08/11/13 04:51 PM
08/11/13 04:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 21 Fresno, CA
CMFast
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 21
Fresno, CA
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Hi everyone. I went out yesterday to fire up my 451 for the first time in 6 years and I've got a noise coming from what sounds like the roller rockers or the lifters. The Engine background. I built the engine in 2001, after 2 kids, a near divorce, poor machine work on the block, and a few job changes, I'm FINALLY going to get it running again. it's a 400 block 440 crank 451. Crane cams hyd roller lifter 224/230 .509/.530 lift. crane gold roller rockers, 9.5 comp. Ported 906 heads, 2.14 valves. 2" TTI headers. Nothing crazy, I wanted a nice street motor. Ran it about 10 minutes yesterday, just setting the timing, adjusting the carb, checking for leaks. After about 5 min I heard a " tick" in the motor. Shut it down and let it sit a few minutes. It wasn't noticeable at idle, but once you revved it up, it got louder. Fired it back up, no tick. Ran the engine some more, adjusting the carb and revving the motor up to 3000 and back down slowly. Then took the engine up to 5000rpm slowly and back down. RAN GREAT! Sounded AWESOME. did some snap tests, made some carb adjustments. Ran it up to 5500rpm faster this time. Sounded great, no miss, no back fire, just angry big block. Let it idle, checked the timing again, 32 degrees at 2000 rpm. when I did this I heard the " tick" again. Shut down the engine, let it cool off a bit. Fired it up again, and at idle, no "tick". At 1500rpm, "tick" doesn't sound like the bottom end, sounds like valve train. Also noticed at this time oil pressure dropped from over 60 at idle, to 30 psi at idle. At 1500rpm oil pressure is 80psi. Let the engine cool, remove the drivers side valve cover. Tried to readjust the #1 intake bolt, the nut was stuck to it. Removed the rocker adjusting bolt and nut from the rocker. put the nut in a vice and turned the bolt out, which pulled the threads. NOW, I ran this engine about 10 years ago, and had the same problem with these CRANE GOLD rockers. I had 2 break while driving down the road, luckily the lifters stayed in place. Crane said this was a race engine and they wouldn't warranty the parts. So I bought all new nuts and adjusting bolts from them. Clowns. Now, it seems I'm having the same problem. Checked all the rockers on this side, and found #7 intake the same way. Could this be the cause of my "ticking" sound? This drives me nuts. Does anyone like these Crane GOLD rockers? Did Crane EVER fix this problem? Should I just junk these rockers and get some comp magnum steel rockers?
I am this close to just selling the damn car and saying the hell with it. I bought a jeep a few years ago and I'm so burnt out on this car I barely care anymore. The only reason I'm working on it is to get it the hell out of my garage and get my jeep in to work on it. Everyone tells me not to sell it, but I'm tired of this crap. Maybe once I drive it, I'll change my mind, but this engine is cursed i guess.
So what rockers do you guys run on the street? This isn't a drag motor. If anyone has any advice, at all, let me hear it. I need a reason to keep this car. Thanks.
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Re: engine noise, going to shoot my car.
[Re: CMFast]
#1482915
08/11/13 06:34 PM
08/11/13 06:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'd definitely take a break for a week. I'm assuming the preload was adequate before so it would be now. It'd be time consuming but I'd take apart/clean/reassemble each lifter as you know not mixing up the common pieces & see what you DO have for preload. EDIT Maybe with a stethoscope you can ID exactly WHICH one or ones are acting up
Last edited by RapidRobert; 08/11/13 06:37 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: engine noise, going to shoot my car.
[Re: CMFast]
#1482920
08/12/13 08:39 PM
08/12/13 08:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Holler how it turns out. We're pullin for ya . Hopefully Mr Murphy will leave you alone for awhile
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: engine noise, going to shoot my car.
[Re: CMFast]
#1482923
08/13/13 06:19 PM
08/13/13 06:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578 sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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Quote:
getting ready to order all new rocker arm adjusting screws. Only $50 from Summit. I will never buy Crane products again, after this. talked to a machinist today. He said if the preload on the lifters isn't enough they will make some noise. After checking my adjustments, not all of them were loaded. Get new parts, run it again, hope for best.
i believe Crane had a bad batch of rockerarm adjusting screws years ago..
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Re: engine noise, going to shoot my car.
[Re: CMFast]
#1482925
08/22/13 09:04 PM
08/22/13 09:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 21 Fresno, CA
CMFast
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 21
Fresno, CA
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Well I got the new adjusting screws and nuts for the roller rockers. Went and adjusted the pre-load on all the lifters again. This is where I have a question. I've adjusted thousands of valves on diesel engines for years. I know how to get valve lash and how to use a feeler gauge. But, these hyd. roller lifters are new to me. On some of the lifters, the plunger in the lifter would move down as I tightened the screw on the rocker. I got the slack out of the pushrod and spun it with my finger until I felt resistance. Then I would give the screw another 1/2 turn. On SOME of the lifters the cup would move down, and on some of the lifters when I tried to go that 1/2 extra of a turn, it would compress the valve spring. This was after the car has been sitting for 2 days with out running. So I tried it like this. Put it back together, fired it up, and tick, tick, tick. I let it warm up, tick is still there. You can't hear it at idle, but at 1200rpm it's there. When you rev it up, you can't hear it over the exhaust, but it doesn't run rough. It runs smooth. With the engine warm at idle I have 30 psi oil pressure, BUT, now I've noticed that the oil pressure needle jumps rapidly. 30-35 psi, the needle bounces at an idle. I'm pretty sure this isn't normal. It moves about as fast as the lifter does at idle. So out of frustration, I tried to blow up the engine. I ran the snot out of it. The MSD is set for 6000 rpm MAX and I never hit the rev limiter, but I'd say it was over 5000rpm. I stood on the side, grabbed the carb and tried to kill it. It never missed a beat. 5000rpm to idle, no problem. Idle to 5000 rpm, no problem. 2000 to 5000+ rpm, no problem. 1200+ rpm, tick, tick, tick. What the hell? A new set of these lifters are $700 bucks and I'm tempted to try it, but they're $700. Should they collapse easily when I'm adjusting the rockers? Can I just get some solid roller lifters for this and be done with it? I don't mind adjusting valves with a feeler gauge, this hyd lifter adjusting is B.S...
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Re: engine noise, going to shoot my car.
[Re: radar]
#1482928
08/22/13 11:25 PM
08/22/13 11:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 21 Fresno, CA
CMFast
OP
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 21
Fresno, CA
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ok, at this point, insult me all you want. Like I said, I work on diesel engines that don't have hydro lifters. So IF I get the rocker to zero lash, and turn it down 1/2 turn more, even though it opens the valve, it's OK? They're Crane Gold Rockers and they say to run them 1/2 to 1 full turn past ZERO lash. So opening the valve a little to get that 1/2 turn isn't going to hurt? Am I reading this right? The cam isn't crazy, it's 224/230 @ .050 and .509/.528. I can't believe I'm having this much trouble adjusting the rockers.
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Re: engine noise, going to shoot my car.
[Re: CMFast]
#1482931
08/26/13 11:13 AM
08/26/13 11:13 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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setting the lash on hydraulic cams is extremly tricky many have tried and failed. A friend of mine tried and tried (would not let me help) and eventually gave up and bought stock rockers and pushrods?? The problem is as you turn the motor over some lifters will pump down others not and all to varying degrees. And the feel for 0 lash is extremly delicate before you add pre load. lots have ended up with .200 and more pre load others not enough and many a big mix of too much and not enough. Some say back off adjustment till lightly hold pressure toward rocker spinning push rod very lightly as you adjust down till you fell very light drag on lifter, Take in mind this is a very light drag as all you have is the pressure of the light spring holding lifter plunger up as it will most likely be pumped down some by now. Other way is again holding pressure toward rocker moving up and down till you can feel that light presser of the lifter spring. then in both cases 1 to 1.25 turns for the pree load maybe an extra .25 turn for aluminum heads. BUT i like to pull the intake and gasket so I can see what each lifter is doing. Then you cam hold pushrod towards rocker as you back it off and you can see plunger come up to retainer clip. the back till plunger just moves then 1 to 1 1/4 turn of pre load and do next. The visual way is the best way for 90% of us. hope this helps a bit! then if there is some light ticking you know you have them all set even and you can go around and give it 1/4 turn more pre load at a time till it quiets down. Course roads lifters will always tick a bit other fast bleed lifters out there may as well.
Last edited by Dodgem; 08/26/13 11:34 AM.
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