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383 starter size problem Updated +update+ #1476882 07/31/13 10:17 AM 07/31/13 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	I bought a 70 runner with an original 383, 4sp set up. Engine already rebuilt and dynoed (I have the paper work) Anyway I get all the wiring etc ready for a start up and the starter hits the flywheel rather than engaging. I take off the inspection cover and sure enough the flywheel is almost rubbing the case of teh starter. So are there different starters for 4 speeds? Tried to measure the flywheel in the car and it looks like 13inch. Maybe 12.5. It has headers and before I remove the starter I need to know. It has to be either wrong starter or maybe even too big of a flywheel (God Forbid!) Thanks for any insight. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476883 07/31/13 10:29 AM 07/31/13 10:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	Wrong flywheel

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: dennismopar73] #1476884 07/31/13 11:35 AM 07/31/13 11:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio	Pull the bell and count the teeth.there are only 2 wheels for a BB except hemi in cars.Either 130 or 143.I doubt a 143 will fit a 130 bell.If reversed the starter wont be near the teeth.Maybe someone used a truck setup.Rocky Chrysler Firepower

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: therocks] #1476885 07/31/13 11:38 AM 07/31/13 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	So I possibly could replace the bell and fix the problem without pulling the clutch and flywheel? 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476886 07/31/13 11:59 AM 07/31/13 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio	Its possible.Pull the bell and count the teeth.If you can turn the engine you can mark the teeth and turn the wheel and count them thru the inspection cover.I doubt a truck flywheel would fit in a car bell.Rocky Chrysler Firepower

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476887 07/31/13 12:36 PM 07/31/13 12:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Do dyno operators use an elec motor attachment to start engines??? If not they would have used a regular starter in the bell. I would pull the starter & see what you see live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: RapidRobert] #1476888 07/31/13 12:50 PM 07/31/13 12:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Do dyno operators use an elec motor attachment to start engines??? If not they would have used a regular starter in the bell. I would pull the starter & see what you see Those were my thoughts exactly, that's why my surprise when the starter did not fit. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476889 07/31/13 02:22 PM 07/31/13 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 5,102 Western Md. skicker "The Champ"
skicker "The Champ" Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 5,102 Western Md.	I have a big block blow proof bell housing that has the positioning holes for both a 130 tooth and a 143 tooth flywheel. Could the starter be bolted in the wrong holes for the size of flywheel? That would be an easy fix if that's the case. ...FAFO...

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: skicker] #1476890 07/31/13 02:49 PM 07/31/13 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	I will for sure be checking that out! If I could be so lucky? thanks 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476891 07/31/13 03:05 PM 07/31/13 03:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: I will for sure be checking that out! If I could be so lucky? thanks On a 11" bell the two widest two holes for the insp cover are 15 3/4" center to center.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476892 07/31/13 04:32 PM 07/31/13 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Do dyno operators use an elec motor attachment to start engines??? If not they would have used a regular starter in the bell. I would pull the starter & see what you see Those were my thoughts exactly, that's why my surprise when the starter did not fit. What is making either of you think that the dyno used that bellhousing and starter to fire the engine? The last 2 dynos I was on , a Superflow and a Stuska , both had their own starter motor, even iff this bell was used as an adapter on the dyno the engine still would have ran. The only Mopar engine that I know of with it's own 4 speed starter motor is the 66-69 Hemi. And I don't see why a 143 tooth wheel would not fit in a 130 tooth bellhousing , the bellhousing flange size is the same for all the bellhousings.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476893 07/31/13 04:34 PM 07/31/13 04:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I will for sure be checking that out! If I could be so lucky? thanks Does the car have a blowproof bell or a stock bell ? and not all bells are made to work with both size flywheels , especially not stock bells.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476894 08/02/13 09:18 AM 08/02/13 09:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476895 08/02/13 09:37 AM 08/02/13 09:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful. 10-1/2" flywheel with a 11" bell?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476896 08/02/13 10:34 AM 08/02/13 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio	11 inch bell and 130 tooth wheel wont work.The starter will be too far from the teeth.You need a 10 1/2 inch bell or 143 wheel.Only thing that fits both is a scattershield.Rocky Chrysler Firepower

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: therocks] #1476897 08/02/13 10:39 AM 08/02/13 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	This is very confusing , he says he has a 130 tooth wheel but the bell is only 13 3/4 , so it's not an 11" bell as that is 15 3/4 , and he says the starter gear is hitting the flywheel . Mike what kind of starter is it, conventional or mini ? There is only so many starters that will physically bolt on there and the hemi direct drive is not one of them, so any one that should bolt on there should work , it's the same basic starter , you could take a starter from a /6 and bolt it on a 440-6pk and it will fit and turn the engine over.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476898 08/02/13 11:24 AM 08/02/13 11:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,224 JERSEY RJS master
RJS master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,224 JERSEY	Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI. Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell? The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: RJS] #1476899 08/02/13 11:55 AM 08/02/13 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI. Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell? The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth Ron there are also cast iron 130 tooth bells prior to 1970, but a 70 should have the alum. one.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476900 08/02/13 01:06 PM 08/02/13 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,224 JERSEY RJS master
RJS master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,224 JERSEY	Quote: Quote: Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI. Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell? The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth Ron there are also cast iron 130 tooth bells prior to 1970, but a 70 should have the alum. one. John your right, I usually don't speak about those little engines (383)just 440's. And I believe the mind is dusty on that part# I through out there, may have been 3250 starter. Ron Last edited by RJS; 08/02/13 01:07 PM.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: RJS] #1476901 08/02/13 02:47 PM 08/02/13 02:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI. Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell? The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth Ron there are also cast iron 130 tooth bells prior to 1970, but a 70 should have the alum. one. John your right, I usually don't speak about those little engines (383)just 440's. And I believe the mind is dusty on that part# I through out there, may have been 3250 starter. Ron The only difference between the starters is their torque rating, the nose of them that bolts to the bell or the auto trans is the same. He still hasn't said what starter he is working with.? Even though one of the mounting holes is bigger than the diameter of the bolt going thru it the starter snout pilots into the bellhousing so there shouldn't be an alignment issue. If he is working with a starter without he pilot snout that could be causing the issue .

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476902 08/02/13 05:12 PM 08/02/13 05:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful. SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: RJS] #1476903 08/02/13 08:35 PM 08/02/13 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI. Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell? The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth Guarantee that part number would not have fit my 64 300, 413, A745 manual trans. It required a direct drive starter. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: Supercuda] #1476904 08/02/13 10:23 PM 08/02/13 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,224 JERSEY RJS master
RJS master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,224 JERSEY	Quote: Quote: Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI. Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell? The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth Guarantee that part number would not have fit my 64 300, 413, A745 manual trans. It required a direct drive starter. I guess I have to be more exact in my replies. Never in a million years would a 64 anything be on my mind. I only think in Muscle Car...

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: RJS] #1476905 08/03/13 12:25 AM 08/03/13 12:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: Quote: Quote: Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI. Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell? The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth Guarantee that part number would not have fit my 64 300, 413, A745 manual trans. It required a direct drive starter. I guess I have to be more exact in my replies. Never in a million years would a 64 anything be on my mind. I only think in Muscle Car... Guess a 64 Max Wedge B body is not a muscle car? take the blinders off. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476906 08/05/13 06:23 PM 08/05/13 06:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: Quote: Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful. SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing. Wondering if you found the problem.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476907 08/05/13 10:49 PM 08/05/13 10:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Quote: Quote: Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful. SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing. Wondering if you found the problem. Ok ..I have been working on these cars for 40 + years and never ran into this. I finally got the starter out after removing just about everything to get the hooker headers out of the way so I could pull the starter. Starter is correct big block starter. Bell housing is alum original style. 15 3/4 from bolt to bolt. Flywheel is 130 teeth ..BUT! The flywheel hits the housing of the starter and the gear from the starter hit the side of the flywheel and cannot in gage! AAAHHHGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! No part number on bell housing, no way to measure the flywheel. Going to the Mopar Nats with measurements to see what I can find out. God I am pissed! 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476908 08/05/13 11:04 PM 08/05/13 11:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful. SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing. Wondering if you found the problem. Ok ..I have been working on these cars for 40 + years and never ran into this. I finally got the starter out after removing just about everything to get the hooker headers out of the way so I could pull the starter. Starter is correct big block starter. Bell housing is alum original style. 15 3/4 from bolt to bolt. Flywheel is 130 teeth ..BUT! The flywheel hits the housing of the starter and the gear from the starter hit the side of the flywheel and cannot in gage! AAAHHHGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! No part number on bell housing, no way to measure the flywheel. Going to the Mopar Nats with measurements to see what I can find out. God I am pissed! Might check with Wayne Brewer at the Nats and see what he thinks. Sounds like you have a 10-1/2" flywheel. I can't understand why it would hit in a 11" bell. Thought maybe he would have responded to this thread by now,maybe too busy getting ready for the Nats. Thanks for the update. Have a safe trip i'm leaving thur morning myself.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476909 08/05/13 11:11 PM 08/05/13 11:11 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	Gotta agree!

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476910 08/06/13 02:30 AM 08/06/13 02:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA	The casting number is on the bellhousing in one of the recessed holes on the aluminum bellhousings , it will read like 2974345 or someything similar. It will also have a code for the date and time it was cast on Write the casting number down and I will tell you which year and application that bellhousing is for Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: Cab_Burge] #1476911 08/06/13 09:06 AM 08/06/13 09:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps. Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE???? 7804272-Photo171.jpg (145 downloads) 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476912 08/06/13 07:42 PM 08/06/13 07:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	as I posted before wrong fly wheel

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476913 08/06/13 09:49 PM 08/06/13 09:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass DAYCLONA I Live Here
DAYCLONA I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass	Quote: I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps. Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE???? Sorry but even Helen Keller knows that flywheel has to come out, is it just me?, or is that flywheel mounted "backwards"?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: DAYCLONA] #1476914 08/06/13 10:28 PM 08/06/13 10:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	Quote: Quote: I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps. Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE???? Sorry but even Helen Keller knows that flywheel has to come out, is it just me?, or is that flywheel mounted "backwards"?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: DAYCLONA] #1476915 08/06/13 10:59 PM 08/06/13 10:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps. Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE???? Sorry but even Helen Keller knows that flywheel has to come out, is it just me?, or is that flywheel mounted "backwards"? Does look like it is in backwards ...

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476916 08/07/13 01:04 AM 08/07/13 01:04 AM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	To tell you the truth I thought from earlier when he poster that picture it looked kind of weird. I too thought it was backwards.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: superbeedave] #1476917 08/07/13 01:17 AM 08/07/13 01:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 869 Keizer, Oregon U.S.A. E elmor353 super stock
elmor353 super stock E Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 869 Keizer, Oregon U.S.A.	That makes several of us. I was looking at the picture and it just didn't look right. If the flywheel is on backwards, how the heck could he bolt on the clutch and pressure plate?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: elmor353] #1476918 08/07/13 02:48 AM 08/07/13 02:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass DAYCLONA I Live Here
DAYCLONA I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass	Quote: That makes several of us. I was looking at the picture and it just didn't look right. If the flywheel is on backwards, how the heck could he bolt on the clutch and pressure plate? The pressure plate holes on flywheels are generally drilled thru and tapped, not blind holes, so in reality you could bolt the pressure plate on the "reverse" side,... here's the McLeod steel Bblk Mopar flywheel, looks to me the ring gear should be towards the engine side.... 7805515-mcleod.jpg (92 downloads)

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476919 08/07/13 03:45 AM 08/07/13 03:45 AM
Joined: May 2013 Posts: 172 IL,USA bdusted440 member
bdusted440 member Joined: May 2013 Posts: 172 IL,USA	Quote: I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps. Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE???? Your fly wheel is on backwards. Ring gear goes toward the engine . Or at least it does on mine. Was curious had to look at mine.LOL

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: bdusted440] #1476920 08/07/13 08:54 AM 08/07/13 08:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	OMG!!!!!! What an idiot! Well that settles that. Thanks for your help guys. Even with it in backwards it still has to be the wrong size. I know what I will be buying at the Nats! 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476921 08/07/13 12:14 PM 08/07/13 12:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: OMG!!!!!! What an idiot! Well that settles that. Thanks for your help guys. Even with it in backwards it still has to be the wrong size. I know what I will be buying at the Nats! Can't tell from the pic but would it hit the starter housing if the flywheel was turned around? If I had time I think I would pull the trans and check. If you have a 130 tooth F wheel and a 11" bell I don't see how it would. If this was the case you'd need a 11" flywheel anyway. Just make SURE what you have before you buy another flywheel.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476922 08/07/13 12:33 PM 08/07/13 12:33 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	Pull it tonight, If it is on backwards switch it around. Get a couple knowledgable guys to help you. Maybe, just maybe it is on backwards and you switch it around then we all can have a good laugh at the Nats. If not you can take flywheel with you to the Nats. and compare before buying a new one. And if you tell us were you will be we all can get a good look at. You've got ten hours or 48 hours or so and the clock is ticking! Lol!!

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476923 08/07/13 01:45 PM 08/07/13 01:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: OMG!!!!!! What an idiot! Well that settles that. Thanks for your help guys. Even with it in backwards it still has to be the wrong size. I know what I will be buying at the Nats! No it shouldn't be the wrong size if it's a 130 tooth wheel and the original 513 bell. The pilot hole will not be blocked with the wheel in correctly. If you feel like you have to buy a new flywheel get a billet wheel.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: superbeedave] #1476924 08/07/13 04:44 PM 08/07/13 04:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Pull it tonight, If it is on backwards switch it around. Get a couple knowledgable guys to help you. Maybe, just maybe it is on backwards and you switch it around then we all can have a good laugh at the Nats. If not you can take flywheel with you to the Nats. and compare before buying a new one. And if you tell us were you will be we all can get a good look at. You've got ten hours or 48 hours or so and the clock is ticking! Lol!! I can do it, just hate doing it in the car lying on my back. I have built many National show winners from the bottom up. I just always assemble everything on the k-member and then drop the car on top. I hate pulling this all back out from underneath. Not enough spare time to pull it before we leave at 6:00 in the morning for the Nats. But thanks for the encouragement. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476925 08/14/13 09:20 PM 08/14/13 09:20 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	MoparMike69, Did you ever get this issue taken care of? Just curious!

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: superbeedave] #1476926 08/15/13 02:05 PM 08/15/13 02:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: MoparMike69, Did you ever get this issue taken care of? Just curious!

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476927 08/16/13 09:00 AM 08/16/13 09:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch. I hope to be able to move on after this week end! I will update. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476928 08/16/13 10:39 AM 08/16/13 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch. I hope to be able to move on after this week end! I will update. If that is the case them what may have happened is that someone swapped the flywheel ring gear and put it on wrong ??? I just had one flipped because of some ground teeth , heat it up and it falls off , heat it up and slip it on ???

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476929 08/17/13 12:25 AM 08/17/13 12:25 AM
Joined: May 2013 Posts: 172 IL,USA bdusted440 member
bdusted440 member Joined: May 2013 Posts: 172 IL,USA	Quote: Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch. I hope to be able to move on after this week end! I will update. As long as the pressure plate holes go all the way threw yes ya can.ive seen some really hokey stuff done.like leaving bolts out of the flex plate because they don't all line up .because it was backward. Where theirs a will their is a way to coble it up. currently own 1976 duster deluxe 1974 gold duster 1993 Dakota sport 2000 caravan 2002 Durango 1970 v code superbee

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: bdusted440] #1476930 08/17/13 12:24 PM 08/17/13 12:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote), Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !! still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: dennismopar73] #1476931 08/17/13 05:03 PM 08/17/13 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ?????? 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476932 08/17/13 06:35 PM 08/17/13 06:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ?????? Was the flywheel on backward?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476933 08/17/13 09:19 PM 08/17/13 09:19 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	Quote: Quote: Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ?????? Was the flywheel on backward? Bueller! Bueller! We're waiting! Gotta be something wrong.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476934 08/17/13 10:48 PM 08/17/13 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Quote: Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ?????? Was the flywheel on backward? No 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476935 08/17/13 10:58 PM 08/17/13 10:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: Quote: Quote: Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ?????? Was the flywheel on backward? No Keep us posted.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476936 08/18/13 12:43 PM 08/18/13 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,163 NORTHERN VA T THESHAKERPROJECT super stock
THESHAKERPROJECT super stock T Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,163 NORTHERN VA	I also had this problem on a SixPack motor I built where the starter hit the ring gear and it turned out to be the flywheel made by Mcleoud . The ring gear was a bit closer to the starter and the gears would not mesh. I used a OEM flywheel and no more problem. My problem was compounded by a bit out of spec TIR. Check the TIR (runout)of you bell to see if it within spec .There is also a lil play in most starters where you can pull it back away from the flywheel just a tad when you tighten it to the bell.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: THESHAKERPROJECT] #1476937 08/18/13 06:21 PM 08/18/13 06:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Could not find any numbers on the flywheel. As stated earlier bell housing # 2892513 and date code of 05102. Bell housing also had penta star so it is original. I am going to check run out on bell and from there I guess replace the flywheel then bolt in the starter before putting the clutch and transmission in. This one really has me baffled and thank for all the help so far. Gonna call Brewers in the morning. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476938 08/19/13 10:07 AM 08/19/13 10:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ?????? Are you asking if that one is a 130 tooth or you have confirmed it is by counting the teeth now that it is out ? I have looked at pictures of original flywheels and it's hard to tell if that ring gear is in the right place or not. I have a bunch of flywheels at home but I keep forgetting to drag one out, I'll look tonight if no one comes up with a picture and measurement.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476939 08/19/13 11:01 AM 08/19/13 11:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Quote: Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ?????? Are you asking if that one is a 130 tooth or you have confirmed it is by counting the teeth now that it is out ? I have looked at pictures of original flywheels and it's hard to tell if that ring gear is in the right place or not. I have a bunch of flywheels at home but I keep forgetting to drag one out, I'll look tonight if no one comes up with a picture and measurement. No it IS a 130 tooth. Heres a pic from the side of the flywheel 7819506-Photo182(1).jpg (112 downloads) 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476940 08/19/13 11:03 AM 08/19/13 11:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Surface 7819508-Photo181.jpg (80 downloads) 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: dennismopar73] #1476941 08/19/13 12:09 PM 08/19/13 12:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,285 Ohio 6 64dodge572 master
64dodge572 master 6 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,285 Ohio	Quote: (quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote), Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !! still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well! Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done. Brewers Performance Inc. 4-speed transmission and parts specialists PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259 FAX 937-947-4419 www.brewersperformance.com

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: 64dodge572] #1476942 08/19/13 12:42 PM 08/19/13 12:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Quote: (quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote), Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !! still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well! Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done. Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side. 7819603-Photo180.jpg (77 downloads) 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476943 08/19/13 03:01 PM 08/19/13 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: (quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote), Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !! still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well! Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done. Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side. One could bolt the clutch on that side , it wouldn't work well but it would bolt one ... Picture of the starter ? It looks like the ring gear is in the right p[lace ... photo is a little too close up of the side ... Do you know if that is the original bellhousing to that engine ? I'm going to have to scare the spiders out from under my dart and get a snails eye view of what the 130 tooth wheel looks like mounted up in there .... One of the bolt holes on the starter is larger than it needs to be but with the starter snout in the pilot of the bellhousing there really isn't any adjustment so the only thing that may cause this is you have some oddball starter that looks correct or the TIR is HUGE between the bell and the engine.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476944 08/19/13 03:24 PM 08/19/13 03:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Mike how thick is your flywheel measured at the outer edge? Not where it bolts to the crank. I just measured a 130 tooth one I have out of a 64 383 and it measured 1-3/8".

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476945 08/19/13 04:52 PM 08/19/13 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: (quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote), Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !! still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well! Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done. Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side. One could bolt the clutch on that side , it wouldn't work well but it would bolt one ... Picture of the starter ? It looks like the ring gear is in the right p[lace ... photo is a little too close up of the side ... Do you know if that is the original bellhousing to that engine ? I'm going to have to scare the spiders out from under my dart and get a snails eye view of what the 130 tooth wheel looks like mounted up in there .... One of the bolt holes on the starter is larger than it needs to be but with the starter snout in the pilot of the bellhousing there really isn't any adjustment so the only thing that may cause this is you have some oddball starter that looks correct or the TIR is HUGE between the bell and the engine. Don't know if it is an original flywheel. I am going to take the starter and compare to another even though the casting number is correct the gear may be too big? 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476946 08/19/13 07:19 PM 08/19/13 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Only found one picture of an original 130 tooth wheel and it has a casting number on it with a 22 prefix , You usually see a casting number on original wheels . It looks like the ring gear is on correct as it goes against a step. the only 10.5 original wheel I own is bolted in between and engine and trans and I won't be pulling it apart anytime soon. Did you buy another flywheel at the nats ?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476947 08/20/13 09:00 AM 08/20/13 09:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	After talking with Wayne Brewer and measuring the diameter of the flywheel he thinks it should be good. Does make sense when it is the correct diameter. Compared the starter to another one that has been working in another engine. SAME. So it has to be a problem with the bell housing position. Maybe no dowel pins or maybe offsets. Will pull it tonight. After all this I went ahead and took the transmission in to have it gone through. Eventhough the seller told me it was rebuilt it was leaking out of the bottom shift lever. Really can't trust anything at this point. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476948 08/20/13 09:49 AM 08/20/13 09:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: After talking with Wayne Brewer and measuring the diameter of the flywheel he thinks it should be good. Does make sense when it is the correct diameter. Compared the starter to another one that has been working in another engine. SAME. So it has to be a problem with the bell housing position. Maybe no dowel pins or maybe offsets. Will pull it tonight. After all this I went ahead and took the transmission in to have it gone through. Eventhough the seller told me it was rebuilt it was leaking out of the bottom shift lever. Really can't trust anything at this point.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476949 08/20/13 03:18 PM 08/20/13 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,360 PA 7 70HemiGTX top fuel
70HemiGTX top fuel 7 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,360 PA

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: 70HemiGTX] #1476950 08/20/13 05:56 PM 08/20/13 05:56 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	Quote: Hey man, Don't hog all the Dude! I need a Is this a double feature?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476951 08/20/13 08:09 PM 08/20/13 08:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio	Even if you pulled the dowels no way would the bell be off that much.The bolts would never line up.If I get to the other garage I have 2 flywheels there that are 130s.I also have the OE bell for a 130 wheel.Rocky Chrysler Firepower

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: therocks] #1476952 08/20/13 08:50 PM 08/20/13 08:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476953 08/21/13 08:48 AM 08/21/13 08:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has. No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476954 08/21/13 09:10 AM 08/21/13 09:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: Quote: Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has. No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel. [/quote OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell. I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476955 08/21/13 11:33 AM 08/21/13 11:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has. No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel. OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell. I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here. That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476956 08/21/13 12:03 PM 08/21/13 12:03 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	This is driving me

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476957 08/21/13 01:46 PM 08/21/13 01:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has. No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel. OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell. I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here. That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel. It may very well be wrong but I have a 10-1/2" cast iron bell and a 130 tooth flywheel out of a 64 B Body.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476958 08/21/13 03:00 PM 08/21/13 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has. No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel. OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell. I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here. That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel. It may very well be wrong but I have a 10-1/2" cast iron bell and a 130 tooth flywheel out of a 64 B Body. Yes but that doesn't answer the issue that is the subject of this thread. The specific bellhousing used in a 1970 RR with big blocks AND hemis is the alum. 513 bell, which the OP confirmed is what he has, it takes a 130 tooth wheel ONLY. The 130 tooth wheel accepts the 10.5" pattern pressure plate, there is a scalloped version of the 10.5 pattern plate that accepts a 10.95" clutch disc.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476959 08/21/13 04:07 PM 08/21/13 04:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel. Yes but that doesn't answer the issue that is the subject of this thread. The specific bellhousing used in a 1970 RR with big blocks AND hemis is the alum. 513 bell, which the OP confirmed is what he has, it takes a 130 tooth wheel ONLY. The 130 tooth wheel accepts the 10.5" pattern pressure plate, there is a scalloped version of the 10.5 pattern plate that accepts a 10.95" clutch disc. I admit that I don't know the answer to Mikes problem I was just pointing out that the 513 is not the only bell out there that uses a 130 tooth flywheel.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: superbeedave] #1476960 08/21/13 08:20 PM 08/21/13 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,664 Newfoundland M mopar_man master
mopar_man master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,664 Newfoundland	Isn't the pre 1960 flywheel larger but still has 130 teeth to match the coarser bendix drive of the old direct drive starter ?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: mopar_man] #1476961 08/21/13 11:02 PM 08/21/13 11:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Isn't the pre 1960 flywheel larger but still has 130 teeth to match the coarser bendix drive of the old direct drive starter ?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476962 08/22/13 03:20 PM 08/22/13 03:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476963 08/22/13 06:30 PM 08/22/13 06:30 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: superbeedave] #1476964 08/23/13 05:42 PM 08/23/13 05:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476965 08/26/13 10:24 AM 08/26/13 10:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	Any progress?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: pushbutton] #1476966 08/26/13 08:10 PM 08/26/13 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Sorry to leave everyone hanging but I have been on a 5 day raft trip shooting the rapids in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. No internet , phones, or electricity. AWESOME trip! Anyway back in the Hotel in Vegas. Pulled transmission and took it into the shop the last day I was in town. Really have no idea where to go now. Pulled the 513 bell and there were dowels in place. So Starter stock and matches other original starter. Flywheel, 130 tooth, 13 1/4 diameter. Bell housing, 513, alum. What the #$%!. Guess I am going to replace the bell since the two bottom trans mounting holes were stripped and I had to heli coil it. Then going to try to borrow from someone in the club another flywheel and test fit it with the starter. Not sure what else to do? 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476967 08/26/13 09:26 PM 08/26/13 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Guess I am going to replace the bell since the two bottom trans mounting holes were stripped and I had to heli coil it. Nothing wrong with helicoils if installed properly , but if you want to waste money getting another bell you are definitely going to have to dial it in so you may as well get some practice doing the one you have. The 13.25 number , flywheel itself or does that include the starter ring gear teeth ?

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476968 08/27/13 12:01 PM 08/27/13 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Tip of tooth to tip of tooth 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: MOPARMIKE69] #1476969 08/27/13 01:11 PM 08/27/13 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Tip of tooth to tip of tooth If I can remember I'll dig out a 130 tooth wheel tonight and measure it.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476970 08/29/13 12:14 AM 08/29/13 12:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Mike I have a Mcleod billet 6 bolt steel wheel , it measures roughly 13 5/16 across the teeth. I have yet to install it on anything so I can only ASSuME it's correct.

Re: 383 starter size problem [Re: JohnRR] #1476971 09/03/13 09:55 AM 09/03/13 09:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN M MOPARMIKE69 OP master
MOPARMIKE69 OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,632 Nashville, TN	Final results: Club member has 70 dodge super bee 383 car with 4 speed. All original parts. Took flywheel, bell housing and starter to his house. Flywheel exact match. Bell housing - exact match, even the same date code. Starter - exact match So what gives??????? Dowel pins. Both looked like off sets. Pulled them, put in stock straight ones. Got out the dial indicator. It is well within tolerance. Bolted up the flywheel and put the bell on. Starter fits! BUT! there isn't an imput shaft bushing in the crank! Ordered one. Transmission was "rebuilt" BUT none of the seals were replaced. So had it completely gone through by a local Mopar knowledgable shop. So thanks to all who helped on this thread and special thanks to Wayne Brewer. 69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert

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