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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: tee-john]
#1468569
07/15/13 11:14 PM
07/15/13 11:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,861
Gloucester,VA STOP MOVING HERE
RangerDan440
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,861
Gloucester,VA STOP MOVING HERE
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there was a great 10 page thread on electric fans VS clutch fans but I cant find it. good info here though Ive tried both electric puller and pusher fans on my 68 Coronet and would up staying with the OE 7 blade clutch fan. Cools better than the electrics, it didn't kill my battery and any power loss is negligible.
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: tee-john]
#1468573
07/16/13 08:07 AM
07/16/13 08:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
Thanks guys, that gives me enough info to stay with a clutch type fan. Now all I need is a shroud that will fit.
The shroud is what will make a huge difference in the effectiveness of any cooling solution so get one that covers the entire radiator tightly. This is what will force the air through the radiator and not allow it to circumvent it. 
Nothing wrong with a mechanical fan but I am not sure why everyone here has so many issues with electric fans. If you spend the money to get a good set and install them correctly, no reason hey won't cool just fine. There was a thread on this and they found around an average 20hp loss (@ higher RPM) with a mechanical fan vs. electric. Not huge but I wouldn't say negligible either. However, making sure the charging system is up to the task is critical or you are creating new problems.
FWIW I have dual 11" pullers on my Summit aluminum radiator and it keeps my 499 stroker cool (< 195*) on a 95* day, in traffic, with A/C on.
I am not trying to change your mind here but this "electric fans won't cool enough" is bogus. If that was the case, then modern day cars would still be running mechanical fans. 
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: tee-john]
#1468574
07/16/13 08:25 AM
07/16/13 08:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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I use a factory 7 blade "213" clutch fan on both my cars with a shroud. It stays cool in 115 degree heat in Vegas and there's enough air being sucked through it to keep my R134 AC working at idle. I have tried a electric fan on forktruck here at work and it could not keep up with the old mechanical fan and would allow my forklift to overheat. I've read too many threads here on electric fans that don't work well enough without using a huge one with a controller and a large alternator and heavy wiring. 
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: tee-john]
#1468575
07/16/13 03:49 PM
07/16/13 03:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
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Incredible so many guys fall for the electric fans.. Thinking they are a fix for cooling issues.. Chrysler overdesigned their OE cooling systems... Unless someone is running a 700HP race motor on the street, lives in the desert and does alot of stop/go it should work fine provided the engine cooling passages and radiator are kleer.. Also alot of the reported cooling issues are due to improper setups for timing and/or fuel.. Just my $0.02.. 
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1468576
07/16/13 04:21 PM
07/16/13 04:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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If an electric fan is used for primary cooling it needs to be substantial. If it doesn't pull at least 30 amps it isn't going to do the job.
Forget all those cheesy AutoZone 20 amp fans and their more expensive relatives sold by more reputable stores.
If a fan is going to hard work it is going to pull hard current.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: Sinitro]
#1468577
07/16/13 04:35 PM
07/16/13 04:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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Quote:
Incredible so many guys fall for the electric fans..
Thinking they are a fix for cooling issues..
Chrysler overdesigned their OE cooling systems...
Unless someone is running a 700HP race motor on the street, lives in the desert and does alot of stop/go it should work fine provided the engine cooling passages and radiator are kleer..
Also alot of the reported cooling issues are due to improper setups for timing and/or fuel..
Absolutely spot-on...
Been in 95+ numerous times...Rolling and in traffic...
3-core 26" rad, A/C fan(with viscous), shroud, A/C water pump...
Never gone beyond 180...
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1468578
07/16/13 08:46 PM
07/16/13 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,899
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,899
Athens, Greece
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I have a 4-core radiator and still use the 7-blade Viscous clutch. I have a 160º thermostat....I have often wondered about removing the viscous fan and replacing it but I stay with the mechanical simply because it wont ever fail unless you lose a belt. I did install a 14" SPAL pusher fan on the front of the radiator and hooked up to a on/off switch. I havent run her HARD this summer but she is doing well so far in 95º weather
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: cjskotni]
#1468579
07/16/13 09:13 PM
07/16/13 09:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks guys, that gives me enough info to stay with a clutch type fan. Now all I need is a shroud that will fit.
The shroud is what will make a huge difference in the effectiveness of any cooling solution so get one that covers the entire radiator tightly. This is what will force the air through the radiator and not allow it to circumvent it.
Nothing wrong with a mechanical fan but I am not sure why everyone here has so many issues with electric fans. If you spend the money to get a good set and install them correctly, no reason hey won't cool just fine. There was a thread on this and they found around an average 20hp loss (@ higher RPM) with a mechanical fan vs. electric. Not huge but I wouldn't say negligible either. However, making sure the charging system is up to the task is critical or you are creating new problems.
FWIW I have dual 11" pullers on my Summit aluminum radiator and it keeps my 499 stroker cool (< 195*) on a 95* day, in traffic, with A/C on.
I am not trying to change your mind here but this "electric fans won't cool enough" is bogus. If that was the case, then modern day cars would still be running mechanical fans.
LOLOLOLOL but but your not staying with the herd, cull and send him off to slaughter LOL. So true.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: Supercuda]
#1468581
07/16/13 09:56 PM
07/16/13 09:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
The use of electric fans in modern vehicles has nothing to do with cooling. If you wish to use an example to support your position make sure it's relevant.
I never said the use of electric fans has anything to do with cooling better than mechanical fans. I stated that they CAN cool an engine just fine (despite what some here may say)or they wouldn't be used in modern cars. Please read carefully before you put your foot in your mouth. 
The article they had referenced on a thread here a few months ago had a 440 dyno'd with the OE type mechanical fan setup and then using electric fans. At higher RPM's, it was about an 18-22 hp difference at the rear wheels so I would argue that it is not a negligible difference between the two in terms of parasitic loss.
My fans pull 20 amps (measured with clamp gauges) and are rated at 2700 CFM. I only run them with a stat (195 degree on 175 off)...no controller per se. Idling in traffic, they can come on for a minute and you can watch the temp needle drop and they will eventually pull it down enough to shut off.
I'm not bashing mechanical fan setups here at all. I think the OE setup works great for raw cooling. I wanted the advantages of a cleaner looking engine compartment and the extra HP freed up. When I first got my Charger, the OEM fan was in bad shape, shroud broken, etc so I had to re-do the entire cooling system anyway...I went electric.
I just wanted to point out that a well thought out (and not cheap) electric fan setup can cool just fine. 
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: justinp61]
#1468586
07/17/13 08:04 AM
07/17/13 08:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
It looks like only 7 hp between the best thermal clutch fan and the electric. I'll stay with my tried and true MP fan kit.
That wasn't the article I was referring to. The test in the linked article was done with a SBC.
I can't find it now of course but I want to say it was Mopar Action or Muscle that did a similar test on a warmed up 440 in a Challenger (I think). They had a chart of the hp/tq numbers which showed the loss increased as the RPM's rose which makes sense. IIRC by 5000 RPM the loss was right at ~20 HP at the rear wheels with a clutch fan vs. an electric.
That being said, if you have a fully working mechanical setup, I wouldn't jump to electric just for the gains but it is a plus IMHO.
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Re: Clutch fan VS electric fan
[Re: forphorty]
#1468587
07/17/13 08:45 AM
07/17/13 08:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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4th post in this older post has Chrysler and GM values for the horsepower of clutch fans, alternators, etc https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=6599970It is worth remembering that the lower horsepower consumed by an electric fan at full throttle can not last more than a minute or so, beause the engine will overheat. The clutch fan is designed for continuous cooling at full power output, such as pulling a heavy trailer up a 6% grade in Death Valley in 100 degree heat, which is the traditional fan capacity road testing site for vehicles sold in North America.
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