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BB oil pump failure
#1457440
06/24/13 09:25 AM
06/24/13 09:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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Took the 72 beater for a little run. Mostly stock 440. Was already rebuilt when I found it in a truck. Seem to have either a high pressure or high volume pump. Got on it. WOT. Caught a nice scratch in 2nd. Hit 3rd and then let up. Valve train started rattle and look at the gauge, no oil pressure.  Shut her down and ended up getting the trailer and towing it home. Drive gear and shaft are fine. Tried priming the pump, nothing. Changed out the pump, oil and filter. Primed right up. All seems to be good. No metal in oil. Never got over 180*.  So what makes a pump fail? Took it apart and looks fine. Thinking that the by-pass valve let go?
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: dOrk !]
#1457442
06/24/13 10:33 AM
06/24/13 10:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,071
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,071
Niles , Ohio
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Ive had a few go bad.Seems they just quit or the relief gets stuck.Ive only had one in 40 years that the rotors in the pump were bad.Ive also seen and heard Fram filters dropping the pressure to Zip.That and if the pickup wasnt cleaned it could be partly plugged and not sucking up enough oil on accel.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1457445
06/24/13 12:03 PM
06/24/13 12:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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I only run Wix filters. Maybe had 500 miles on it. I did try the filter on another motor and the pressure was fine. When I got the motor it was running good. Took it down to the long block. Very clean inside. Changed to a car pan and pickup. Again very clean inside. I drove it about 50 miles this weekend. No problems.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: moparmarks]
#1457446
06/24/13 12:10 PM
06/24/13 12:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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Heres the pump. Has some scaring but don't think that would cause an instant loss of pressure. Maybe a gradual loss. Shaft is tight in the rotor.
It had 60psi at idle before this.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: moparmarks]
#1457447
06/24/13 12:21 PM
06/24/13 12:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Yes the rotors look fine. That is a strange case, I woulda sworn it was the filter & Wix does have a good rep
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1457449
06/24/13 12:28 PM
06/24/13 12:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
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In the last 5 years I have had two bad wix filters on big blocks. They may be good filters but they aren't perfect.
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: moparmarks]
#1457450
06/24/13 12:30 PM
06/24/13 12:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Heres the pump. Has some scaring but don't think that would cause an instant loss of pressure. Maybe a gradual loss. Shaft is tight in the rotor.
It had 60psi at idle before this.
How are you checking the shaft on the rotor fit by hand ? Same goes for the drive.
Put one end in a vice and vise grips tight on the shaft ...
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: Silver70]
#1457451
06/24/13 12:32 PM
06/24/13 12:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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Quote:
In the last 5 years I have had two bad wix filters on big blocks. They may be good filters but they aren't perfect.
Had one for my CTD that they forgot the cut the threads on other than that I've had real good luck with Wix.
I'm thinking it had to be the by-pass. Don't think it starved the mains.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: JohnRR]
#1457452
06/24/13 12:36 PM
06/24/13 12:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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Quote:
Quote:
Heres the pump. Has some scaring but don't think that would cause an instant loss of pressure. Maybe a gradual loss. Shaft is tight in the rotor.
It had 60psi at idle before this.
How are you checking the shaft on the rotor fit by hand ? Same goes for the drive.
Put one end in a vice and vise grips tight on the shaft ...
Yep used a vise and vise grips. 
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: dogdays]
#1457455
06/24/13 05:44 PM
06/24/13 05:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Pressure relief valve stuck open.
It's a positive displacement pump. That pump is simplicity itself. If the rotor turns, it pumps. If the inlet is clogged, it pumps nothing. If the outlet is plugged, it pumps until something gives.
If the shaft is spinning in the rotor, you'll see something. Either it'll weld itself back on (friction welding) or it will make the hole bigger.
Pressure relief valve stuck open means pump pumps, oil goes right back into crankcase. Engine sees no pressure. Judging from the appearance of the pump, that's what happened.
R.
 I had the check valve on my race motor start sticking Friday(new motor, dyno time only and several runs 1/8 mile on it, it had above 160 lbs presure on the 200 lb gauge ) when running the motor, I took the check valve out, it came out easily with the pump still on the motor, and cleaned it up. I didn't see any debris or scratches on it or in the Milidon dual line pump cover so I put it back on and started it up, I had cut the bypass spring down on this one already  , the bypass would open at 80 lbs just like I wanted and had set it up on the dyno No more problems all weekend   BTW, I am running the remote mounted HP6 type big Wix brand racing oil filter on this motor also 
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/24/13 09:38 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: BB oil pump failure
[Re: buildanother]
#1457459
06/24/13 11:32 PM
06/24/13 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
If that happened, the car would not run or at least start backfiring and all that, no? 
Why would it? The shaft spinning the oil pump is spun by the gear which is spun by the cam and kept from coming up by the distributor. You could drop just a gear in there with no oil pump shaft and the engine would run ... not for very long though
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