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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1439911
05/22/13 12:15 PM
05/22/13 12:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
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Made it about 34 miles in the Silver state when "BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP...." happened at 4700 rpm doing about 137.
It sounded like I pospped a spark plug, but it was too loudm it was still firing. It later guessed a broken valve spring on an intake, allowing the valve to drop, hit the piston and get jammed up in the guide, allowing the combustion to backfire through the manifold. Wrong. It is time to retire the Crane Golds. The adjuster was there and set correctly, but was loose.
I run about .640 lift and 400 - 430# open spring pressure on these 1.6's
Sorry about your troubles.
1.5s will last much longer, be much more stable and oil better, less chance of burning up the adjuster. Don't blame the rockers. Blame the adjusters and the ratio,imo.
Nascar is running 2.2 ratio rockers at over 9k rpm. Has nothing to do with rocker ratio and everything to do with cam lobe, proper setup and quality parts. Crane golds are not very good rockers in my opinion, and that's why I think it's a good idea to save up for T&D or Jesel rockers. Again, just my opinion.
NASCAR is is not running edlebrock heads. My 
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1439912
05/22/13 01:07 PM
05/22/13 01:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Made it about 34 miles in the Silver state when "BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP...." happened at 4700 rpm doing about 137.
It sounded like I pospped a spark plug, but it was too loudm it was still firing. It later guessed a broken valve spring on an intake, allowing the valve to drop, hit the piston and get jammed up in the guide, allowing the combustion to backfire through the manifold. Wrong. It is time to retire the Crane Golds. The adjuster was there and set correctly, but was loose.
I run about .640 lift and 400 - 430# open spring pressure on these 1.6's
Sorry about your troubles.
1.5s will last much longer, be much more stable and oil better, less chance of burning up the adjuster. Don't blame the rockers. Blame the adjusters and the ratio,imo.
Nascar is running 2.2 ratio rockers at over 9k rpm. Has nothing to do with rocker ratio and everything to do with cam lobe, proper setup and quality parts. Crane golds are not very good rockers in my opinion, and that's why I think it's a good idea to save up for T&D or Jesel rockers. Again, just my opinion.
NASCAR is is not running edlebrock heads. My
That's not my point. My point is, good rockers and good cam profiles with proper setup will work just fine with high ratio rockers.
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1439913
05/22/13 01:28 PM
05/22/13 01:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Made it about 34 miles in the Silver state when "BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP...." happened at 4700 rpm doing about 137.
It sounded like I pospped a spark plug, but it was too loudm it was still firing. It later guessed a broken valve spring on an intake, allowing the valve to drop, hit the piston and get jammed up in the guide, allowing the combustion to backfire through the manifold. Wrong. It is time to retire the Crane Golds. The adjuster was there and set correctly, but was loose.
I run about .640 lift and 400 - 430# open spring pressure on these 1.6's
Sorry about your troubles.
1.5s will last much longer, be much more stable and oil better, less chance of burning up the adjuster. Don't blame the rockers. Blame the adjusters and the ratio,imo.
Nascar is running 2.2 ratio rockers at over 9k rpm. Has nothing to do with rocker ratio and everything to do with cam lobe, proper setup and quality parts. Crane golds are not very good rockers in my opinion, and that's why I think it's a good idea to save up for T&D or Jesel rockers. Again, just my opinion.
NASCAR is is not running edlebrock heads. My
That's not my point. My point is, good rockers and good cam profiles with proper setup will work just fine with high ratio rockers.
Talk to edlebrock and ask them about running 1.6 rockers on there heads.
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1439914
05/22/13 02:00 PM
05/22/13 02:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Those stainless PRW bushed rockers look like they might work in an endurance app.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1439916
05/22/13 02:14 PM
05/22/13 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,988
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,988
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Those stainless PRW bushed rockers look like they might work in an endurance app.
Yeah, I'm gonna choose a Chinese knock off of a Comp SS rocker to go racing.... NOT!!!!
 x 1000
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1439917
05/22/13 02:16 PM
05/22/13 02:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Talk to edlebrock and ask them about running 1.6 rockers on there heads.
First off, I've run 1.6 rockers on edelbrock heads, second, it doesn't change the point I'm trying to make; GOOD quality rocker arms, set up correctly, with a lobe profile that isn't crazy, will last just fine with higher rocker ratios. If the rocker is designed correctly then, at most, all you'll need to do, and this is a maybe, is massage the pushrod hole for clearance. Now I appreciate your point of view, but you have yet to make a point with any real evidence supporting it that isn't coming from some other source, so while I applaud your efforts, just because you're certain something is true, does not make it so. If I hadn't run into problems like this before I would be keeping my big trap shut, but I have, so I'm not.
I have a set of those PRW rockers in a 1.6 ratio. Adjusters are junk so if you seriously want a set, factor in the price of some good adjusters.
Last edited by dodgeboy11; 05/22/13 02:37 PM.
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1439918
05/22/13 03:17 PM
05/22/13 03:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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So $1000 rockers are the only option? Yeah that's awesome.....where do I sign up?
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439920
05/22/13 04:04 PM
05/22/13 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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JMO... but I had a HIGH reving BB years ago... the springs on the shaft will never control the side movement... the adjuster is off center so the push rod is pushing on a angle moving the rocker over... if that action is fast enough it will develop a larger lash... if the PR pops off of the adjuster it tends to drop in close to the shaft... all you need is a single gouge in the rocker to create the stress area and break(since the PR is still working the rocker BUT at a MUCH higher rocker rate)... the alum spacers control the side loading(a hard shim they sell on both sides of the spacer will reduce wear) The burnt oil is a AFTER FACT... the PR dented the rocker and increased the friction on the shaft.... if the other rockers dont have the burnt oil look you would know its a after fact 
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1439921
05/22/13 04:24 PM
05/22/13 04:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,988
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,988
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
So $1000 rockers are the only option? Yeah that's awesome.....where do I sign up?
All depends on the application , first off there are many GOOD rockers that aren't cheap chinese junk that are under $1000 dollars.
In the application that the OP is running , high RPM for an extended period of time, a cheap chinese junk rocker is not an option unless he wants something similar to this ... or worse because the CCJ rockers usually cause a valve to drop .... happening ...
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: JohnRR]
#1439922
05/22/13 05:04 PM
05/22/13 05:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Im running the Crane Golds myself with a hydraulic cam. Im gonna be in the market for something reliable with a .600 ish lift solid roller for the same type of conditions. I can definitely see where a solid spacer would be necessary when spring loads get up there as well as rpm. So Harland Sharps= $700 or Comp Ultra Pro Magnums= $700 are basically what you guys would trust in these conditions?
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1439924
05/22/13 05:29 PM
05/22/13 05:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Im running the Crane Golds myself with a hydraulic cam. Im gonna be in the market for something reliable with a .600 ish lift solid roller for the same type of conditions. I can definitely see where a solid spacer would be necessary when spring loads get up there as well as rpm. So Harland Sharps= $700 or Comp Ultra Pro Magnums= $700 are basically what you guys would trust in these conditions?
I have no experience with either of these rockers on a mopar, and only Comp Pro Magnums, which seized on the shaft so I'm biased towards T&D because when I've had the opportunity to use them, they're relatively painless and I never had to worry about burned PR's or anything like I did with so many of the others. I like to offer advice that will give the best results in my experience even if it initially costs more.
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1439925
05/22/13 05:30 PM
05/22/13 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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It is a bit of a mystery still... There are no indications on the rocker that the pushrod jammed into the body and dented it. It is possible, however, that the adjuster had loosened some and increased the lash, causing a hammering effect that induced metal to metal contact resulting in heat and ultimately metal failure in the form of stretching and fracturing. It appears to have stretched and torn at the pushrod squirter hole from the edge inward, distorting the bore, causing more heat, then ultimately did a full fracture at the highestload point at the inward side of the bottom of the shaft bore. ...maybe the fracture happened before the tear, would makle more sense. I still am inclined to think loose adjuster was the root.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439926
05/22/13 06:14 PM
05/22/13 06:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,169
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,169
PA.
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The first thing I noticed when you started this post and looking at the picture was the lack of threads from the adjuster out past the rocker. That is why I went to there instructions to see what the recommended. There was no info on that so it may not be an issue. T&D and some others want 2-3 threads beyond the body to help direct the oil to the push-rod cup to assist cooling. In a drag racing app it may not be as much of an issue. One reason I asked about how old the heads were is because Edelbock heads have a few issues. Tight guides and one of our members noticed that the oiling hole in the head bolt is not drill properly. the hole is drilled but it stops as soon as the bit breaks thru. When I checked a brand new set I had sitting here the hole was opened about 50%. Must be drilled on a CNC and being the hole is angled it should be set to drill about an 1/8 inch deeper.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439927
05/22/13 06:49 PM
05/22/13 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
It is a bit of a mystery still... There are no indications on the rocker that the pushrod jammed into the body and dented it. It is possible, however, that the adjuster had loosened some and increased the lash, causing a hammering effect that induced metal to metal contact resulting in heat and ultimately metal failure in the form of stretching and fracturing. It appears to have stretched and torn at the pushrod squirter hole from the edge inward, distorting the bore, causing more heat, then ultimately did a full fracture at the highestload point at the inward side of the bottom of the shaft bore. ...maybe the fracture happened before the tear, would makle more sense. I still am inclined to think loose adjuster was the root.
You can also think of it this way... move the PR in
close... what kind of load is applied to the shaft
and/or rocker... the load goes way up... so if it has
1000psi on it(just a number) is the surface of the rocker
good enough to take that no... NO... thats when rollers
work better.... are any other rockers burnt
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1439928
05/22/13 06:58 PM
05/22/13 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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All other rockers look good, no slop, no signs of heat.
I'm looking at getting a set of H-S's and not looking back. My question is is it worth the nominal hit in power to drop down to 1.5's... The cam was ground with 1.6's in mind. It is also not a fast ramp design.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: DNF'd at the Silver State Classic
[Re: 67Charger]
#1439930
05/22/13 07:35 PM
05/22/13 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
All other rockers look good, no slop, no signs of heat.
I'm looking at getting a set of H-S's and not looking back. My question is is it worth the nominal hit in power to drop down to 1.5's... The cam was ground with 1.6's in mind. It is also not a fast ramp design.
If you have 1.6 now I'd stay with them... just make
sure the springs are good
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I bought a set of single shaft T&D and they varied a little on the ratios at the retainers, I saw around .030 differences in lift at the retainers on both the T&D and H.S. 
