HELP! 904 no reverse or third, locked wheels...FIXED!
#1438488
05/18/13 08:47 PM
05/18/13 08:47 PM
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mshred
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Hey guys, I went to start driving and breaking in my motor today finally when I had some transmission issues. The transmission is a 904 assembled by me, with a tranzact pro brake. The issue I was having was when engaged in reverse, I did not feel the trans shift with my foot on the brake, nor did I have reverse when I gave the car gas to move. I then proceeded to try all forward gears with my foot on the brake and all felt fine. Moving, 1st to 2nd shifted fine, then shifting to 3rd I felt nothing...no change in rpm, no shift feel...then I went to go let off the gas to come to the stop sign on my street and all of a sudden it felt like I engine braked the HELL outta the thing. Scared the crap outta me as the wheels almost locked up, so I put it back in first and drove it back around the corner home. I am using a non low band apply valve body, and according to the service manual it looks like the most serious issues that are shared between both gears is the rear band (which is adjusted properly according to tranzact instructions for a used band which was 1-3/4 turns, but im going to pull the pan off to re-check), the front drum (which has been assembled by a professional, has the proper clearances, TCS multi return spring, and been air checked by me as well), and the rear/reverse servo. Now I do not have the stock reverse servo, it is a billet reverse servo as sold my mrandyj in the transmission section every month (which is a real nice piece btw). Now if I remember correctly, I installed it with the large spring that goes under the retaining ring, but no spring for the actual servo piston since it is supposed to be solid (although I will not know for sure until I pull the servo out). Here is a link to the part description if it helps https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=7692012&page=0&vc=1Anyways, I am just about confused as [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] with this thing since it seemed like it all went together properly...What even concerns me more though is not just that I didn't get third or reverse, but that when I let off the gas I was met with unpleasant whiplash from what seemed like the trans locking up in 3rd. My fluid level is good, trans fluid was not burnt or hot, and as I said the other areas of the transmission work well. I did notice when messing with the shift lever on the trans itself by hand that it feels almost like it doesn't engage reverse as well as the other gears, although it does engage (and third does as well). Only other thing I am thinking it might be is a valve body issue, but not sure what could be happening there if it is or how to diagnose if it is. Anyways, any help you guys might have would be awesome...I was really planning to have this thing ready for the first race of my local series next weekend, but with this and a major job interview on Thursday I need to prepare for, it seems like that won't be happening. I am just about stumped here, and am really hoping it is an easy fix with just the pan off since I had to yank the trans and put it back in 4 days ago to fix a leak at the back of the block, and im not really in the mood to do that all over again if i dont have to. Thanks fellas Matthew
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: mshred]
#1438489
05/18/13 09:03 PM
05/18/13 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
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1 thing with regards to rev I ran a Tranzact pro brake for years and you do know for rev to work you have to push the trans brake button with shifter in rev or N.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#1438490
05/18/13 09:09 PM
05/18/13 09:09 PM
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Quote:
1 thing with regards to rev I ran a Tranzact pro brake for years and you do know for rev to work you have to push the trans brake button with shifter in rev or N.
OH my GOSH I am such a newb to auto's and trans brakes that I never even thought of that...I sure hope that it is THAT as my reason for no reverse...You have just taken a load of my back of worries here IF that ends up working.
Now I need to figure out why the hell I had that issue in third gear
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: mshred]
#1438492
05/18/13 09:45 PM
05/18/13 09:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Leon441
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I think the locking up in third is the shift pattern is reverse. So you actaully put the car back in first. With low band apply it will do some serious engine braking.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: Leon441]
#1438493
05/19/13 02:41 AM
05/19/13 02:41 AM
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Quote:
I think the locking up in third is the shift pattern is reverse. So you actaully put the car back in first. With low band apply it will do some serious engine braking.
Leon
Hey Leon, not sure im following what you are saying- the valve body is NON low band apply. Also, why would it go back to first if both my trans and shifter are reverse pattern?
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: mshred]
#1438494
05/19/13 07:34 AM
05/19/13 07:34 AM
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jp15
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I had my first trans-brake VB Rev, band adj.@ 1 1/2 turns and it locked up solid when I let off the gas at the end of the 1/4....., not fun. might want to set that at 3 1/2 or 4. just my experience . Jim
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: jp15]
#1438495
05/19/13 10:13 AM
05/19/13 10:13 AM
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Quote:
I had my first trans-brake VB Rev, band adj.@ 1 1/2 turns and it locked up solid when I let off the gas at the end of the 1/4....., not fun. might want to set that at 3 1/2 or 4. just my experience . Jim
Hey Jim, this is actually refreshing to hear... I have been searching 904 rear band adjustments, and it looks like 904's want 3-1/4, even according to Griner's instructions as well. My tranzact instructions said 1-3/4, but didn't specify for 904 or 727. I also spoke with Randy who sold me my accumalator, and he is thinking that is the problem as well.
However, for any trans experts in here- could an overly tight band adjustment be affecting my ability to get into 3rd, or atleast feel it shift into 3rd?
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: rickraw]
#1438498
05/19/13 11:48 AM
05/19/13 11:48 AM
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Quote:
1 3/4 is the correct adjustment for a 904. joe told me u will hardly feel the 2-3 shift jack stands. how much line pressure do u have? i set mine to 180#. works perfect.
I never tested it up on jack stands to be honest...foot on brake, put it in first, then second, then third...then drove it slowly...first to second you could feel, 2nd to third I didn't feel ANYTHING and then it locked up and scared the crap outta me...Do you feel your 2-3 shift while moving?
I have the stock line pressure it came with...he told me that its all it needs to be, which I believe is 155psi???
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: rickraw]
#1438500
05/19/13 11:57 AM
05/19/13 11:57 AM
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my 2-3 shift is firm(doesn't bang). is ur detent correct?
I am 99% sure my detent is correct
Why did you add line pressure if Joe insists what he sets it with is enough? I asked him that more than once actually, and he insisted it didn't need to be touched
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: rickraw]
#1438502
05/19/13 12:11 PM
05/19/13 12:11 PM
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Quote:
i tried different settings & 180# give me the best shifts.
Before you adjusted your line pressure, were you able to feel the 2-3 shift in your trans? Not that I am doubting you, but if Joe says it is fine, and my 1-2 shift is fine, I am truly thinking it is something else going on, especially if my wheels are locking up...that to me does not sound like it could be affected by line pressure.
I also find it interesting that Griner and Tranzact brakes are supposed to be very similar to eachother since Joe used to be over at Griner, yet one company calls for 1-3/4 rear band adjustment (tranzact), and the other for 3-1/4 (griner)
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: mshred]
#1438504
05/19/13 12:26 PM
05/19/13 12:26 PM
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dusturbd340W5
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if the rear band was holding all the time it would bind up hard as soon as it hits 2nd gear you would never make it to 3rd,and I have seen the rear band set any where from 1 1/2 to 3/12 and would work fine
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#1438505
05/19/13 12:28 PM
05/19/13 12:28 PM
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Quote:
if the rear band was holding all the time it would bind up hard as soon as it hits 2nd gear you would never make it to 3rd,and I have seen the rear band set any where from 1 1/2 to 3/12 and would work fine
My current rear band setting is 1-3/4, so do you think that loosening it up would even help any at all??
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Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd
[Re: rickraw]
#1438506
05/19/13 12:29 PM
05/19/13 12:29 PM
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Quote:
on jackstands, i could barely feel the 2-3 shift as joe stated. i would give him a call. i would try another vb as a test. if it works fine, there could pressure leakage in ur new one.
I just emailed Joe, will try calling him but doubt he is in the shop on a Sunday. I was thinking of throwin in the stock valve body just to see if it works ok, and then I would know its a valve body issue...but it seems a band adjustment is just as easy, and like jp15 said in his experience it helped his situation with locking up the wheels...I guess at this point it is just trouble shooting from here.
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