HELP! 904 no reverse or third, locked wheels...FIXED!

Posted By: mshred

HELP! 904 no reverse or third, locked wheels...FIXED! - 05/19/13 12:47 AM

Hey guys,

I went to start driving and breaking in my motor today finally when I had some transmission issues. The transmission is a 904 assembled by me, with a tranzact pro brake. The issue I was having was when engaged in reverse, I did not feel the trans shift with my foot on the brake, nor did I have reverse when I gave the car gas to move. I then proceeded to try all forward gears with my foot on the brake and all felt fine. Moving, 1st to 2nd shifted fine, then shifting to 3rd I felt nothing...no change in rpm, no shift feel...then I went to go let off the gas to come to the stop sign on my street and all of a sudden it felt like I engine braked the HELL outta the thing. Scared the crap outta me as the wheels almost locked up, so I put it back in first and drove it back around the corner home.

I am using a non low band apply valve body, and according to the service manual it looks like the most serious issues that are shared between both gears is the rear band (which is adjusted properly according to tranzact instructions for a used band which was 1-3/4 turns, but im going to pull the pan off to re-check), the front drum (which has been assembled by a professional, has the proper clearances, TCS multi return spring, and been air checked by me as well), and the rear/reverse servo. Now I do not have the stock reverse servo, it is a billet reverse servo as sold my mrandyj in the transmission section every month (which is a real nice piece btw). Now if I remember correctly, I installed it with the large spring that goes under the retaining ring, but no spring for the actual servo piston since it is supposed to be solid (although I will not know for sure until I pull the servo out). Here is a link to the part description if it helps
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=7692012&page=0&vc=1

Anyways, I am just about confused as [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] with this thing since it seemed like it all went together properly...What even concerns me more though is not just that I didn't get third or reverse, but that when I let off the gas I was met with unpleasant whiplash from what seemed like the trans locking up in 3rd. My fluid level is good, trans fluid was not burnt or hot, and as I said the other areas of the transmission work well. I did notice when messing with the shift lever on the trans itself by hand that it feels almost like it doesn't engage reverse as well as the other gears, although it does engage (and third does as well). Only other thing I am thinking it might be is a valve body issue, but not sure what could be happening there if it is or how to diagnose if it is.

Anyways, any help you guys might have would be awesome...I was really planning to have this thing ready for the first race of my local series next weekend, but with this and a major job interview on Thursday I need to prepare for, it seems like that won't be happening. I am just about stumped here, and am really hoping it is an easy fix with just the pan off since I had to yank the trans and put it back in 4 days ago to fix a leak at the back of the block, and im not really in the mood to do that all over again if i dont have to.

Thanks fellas
Matthew

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 01:03 AM

1 thing with regards to rev I ran a Tranzact pro brake for years and you do know for rev to work you have to push the trans brake button with shifter in rev or N.

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 01:09 AM

Quote:

1 thing with regards to rev I ran a Tranzact pro brake for years and you do know for rev to work you have to push the trans brake button with shifter in rev or N.

OH my GOSH I am such a newb to auto's and trans brakes that I never even thought of that...I sure hope that it is THAT as my reason for no reverse...You have just taken a load of my back of worries here IF that ends up working.

Now I need to figure out why the hell I had that issue in third gear

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 01:23 AM

I forgot to mention, I am running a blanket that I just thought of might be affecting the shift linkage [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]!

Posted By: Leon441

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 01:45 AM

I think the locking up in third is the shift pattern is reverse. So you actaully put the car back in first. With low band apply it will do some serious engine braking.

Leon

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 06:41 AM

Quote:

I think the locking up in third is the shift pattern is reverse. So you actaully put the car back in first. With low band apply it will do some serious engine braking.

Leon

Hey Leon, not sure im following what you are saying- the valve body is NON low band apply. Also, why would it go back to first if both my trans and shifter are reverse pattern?

Posted By: jp15

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 11:34 AM

I had my first trans-brake VB Rev, band adj.@ 1 1/2 turns and it locked up solid when I let off the gas at the end of the 1/4....., not fun. might want to set that at 3 1/2 or 4.
just my experience

.
Jim

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 02:13 PM

Quote:

I had my first trans-brake VB Rev, band adj.@ 1 1/2 turns and it locked up solid when I let off the gas at the end of the 1/4....., not fun. might want to set that at 3 1/2 or 4.
just my experience .
Jim

Hey Jim, this is actually refreshing to hear... I have been searching 904 rear band adjustments, and it looks like 904's want 3-1/4, even according to Griner's instructions as well. My tranzact instructions said 1-3/4, but didn't specify for 904 or 727. I also spoke with Randy who sold me my accumalator, and he is thinking that is the problem as well.

However, for any trans experts in here- could an overly tight band adjustment be affecting my ability to get into 3rd, or atleast feel it shift into 3rd?

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 03:40 PM

Well I have been doing some searching on here and it seems like others have had issues with tranzact valve bodies locking up in 3rd gear or not even going in and locking up...I sure hope its not a vb issue

Again, if anyone has any experience with this, please chime in....I am going to go out and try to adjust the band, but I am not going to lie I am a little scared to shift it into 3rd now after what happened yesterday.

Posted By: rickraw

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 03:45 PM

1 3/4 is the correct adjustment for a 904. joe told me u will hardly feel the 2-3 shift jack stands. how much line pressure do u have? i set mine to 180#. works perfect.

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 03:48 PM

Quote:

1 3/4 is the correct adjustment for a 904. joe told me u will hardly feel the 2-3 shift jack stands. how much line pressure do u have? i set mine to 180#. works perfect.

I never tested it up on jack stands to be honest...foot on brake, put it in first, then second, then third...then drove it slowly...first to second you could feel, 2nd to third I didn't feel ANYTHING and then it locked up and scared the crap outta me...Do you feel your 2-3 shift while moving?

I have the stock line pressure it came with...he told me that its all it needs to be, which I believe is 155psi???

Posted By: rickraw

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 03:53 PM

my 2-3 shift is firm(doesn't bang). is ur detent correct?

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 03:57 PM

Quote:

my 2-3 shift is firm(doesn't bang). is ur detent correct?

I am 99% sure my detent is correct

Why did you add line pressure if Joe insists what he sets it with is enough? I asked him that more than once actually, and he insisted it didn't need to be touched

Posted By: rickraw

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 04:02 PM

i tried different settings & 180# give me the best shifts.

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 04:11 PM

Quote:

i tried different settings & 180# give me the best shifts.

Before you adjusted your line pressure, were you able to feel the 2-3 shift in your trans? Not that I am doubting you, but if Joe says it is fine, and my 1-2 shift is fine, I am truly thinking it is something else going on, especially if my wheels are locking up...that to me does not sound like it could be affected by line pressure.

I also find it interesting that Griner and Tranzact brakes are supposed to be very similar to eachother since Joe used to be over at Griner, yet one company calls for 1-3/4 rear band adjustment (tranzact), and the other for 3-1/4 (griner)

Posted By: rickraw

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 04:25 PM

on jackstands, i could barely feel the 2-3 shift as joe stated. i would give him a call. i would try another vb as a test. if it works fine, there could pressure leakage in ur new one.

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 04:26 PM

if the rear band was holding all the time it would bind up hard as soon as it hits 2nd gear you would never make it to 3rd,and I have seen the rear band set any where from 1 1/2 to 3/12 and would work fine

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 04:28 PM

Quote:

if the rear band was holding all the time it would bind up hard as soon as it hits 2nd gear you would never make it to 3rd,and I have seen the rear band set any where from 1 1/2 to 3/12 and would work fine

My current rear band setting is 1-3/4, so do you think that loosening it up would even help any at all??

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 04:29 PM

Quote:

on jackstands, i could barely feel the 2-3 shift as joe stated. i would give him a call. i would try another vb as a test. if it works fine, there could pressure leakage in ur new one.

I just emailed Joe, will try calling him but doubt he is in the shop on a Sunday. I was thinking of throwin in the stock valve body just to see if it works ok, and then I would know its a valve body issue...but it seems a band adjustment is just as easy, and like jp15 said in his experience it helped his situation with locking up the wheels...I guess at this point it is just trouble shooting from here.

Posted By: Leon441

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 06:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think the locking up in third is the shift pattern is reverse. So you actaully put the car back in first. With low band apply it will do some serious engine braking.

Leon

Hey Leon, not sure im following what you are saying- the valve body is NON low band apply. Also, why would it go back to first if both my trans and shifter are reverse pattern?

A reverse manual vb just swaps 1st and 3rd in the valve body. In theory the same shifter could shift the gears just not with any speed or precision. What makes a shifter reverse pattern is the stops allow you to go from first to second and stop then when you pull the shifter again you go to third. Just to remind you what you probably already know. stock pattern P/R/N/D/2/1. D being third if manual valve body. A reverse patter Tranzact P/R-N/R-N/1/2/3. I marked the reverse and neutral position R-N because the only difference is if you have the botton pushed.

Which Tranzact VB do you have?

I ran several Pro Brakes over the years with zero issues. Never heard of one locking in third. In fact it had to best shift into third of any of the VB's I tried. But, anything mechanical could have a problem.

Leon

Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/19/13 07:05 PM

the rear band adjustment for the 904 depends on the rear band...double wrap which is in v8 904 calls for the 4 turns...the /6 rear band is the one that calls for 2 turns..it is a different band.

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/20/13 02:00 PM

hey guys, I have some good news, got it all sorted out (thankfully).

In the instructions for my trans brake it says to adjust the rear band to 72inch/lbs and back off 1-3/4 turns...well, everyone else says to do it 3-1/4 turns, including the factory service manual. I had already drained the fluid and thought what the heck, mine as well try it and see if it helps, and sure enough it did....I have the wide double wrap flex band (I think thats what they are called) for my rear band, so im guessing with the original adjustment it was way too tight and not releasing properly.

Reverse was an easy fix- the fuse that I had for the button on my shifter for the transbrake and linelock blew...replaced that, and I was good to go....was a DOH moment, but damn it felt good to know that it was just simple stuff to fix.

As for the car- HOLY HELL does it pull like a freight train with the 408 and the 5500 stall A1 8" converter in it...I loved the stick, but its a blast to be in third gear and just give it a little and have the tires break loose. Can't wait to see how it does at the track

Thanks for all the help guys!

Posted By: MattW

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/21/13 07:02 PM

Good news Matthew. Did you get your temp. Under control?

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/21/13 09:11 PM

Quote:

Good news Matthew. Did you get your temp. Under control?

Hey Matt, I have only driven the car once since testing it out around the block...Within a half an hour drive I lost a fan belt (luckily I had a replacement and tools in the trunk to change it), and then proceeded to run out of gas (which I thought was a bad fuel pump, but ended up being no gas left from a sticking sending unit)....However, I did drive it around, let it idle, and gave it a good handful of blasts, and my water temp stays around 180 just as it used to, trans temps are under 180, and oil temp was just around 200.

Next week I am planning on doing some more driving with it, possibly even some highway miles, so that will be the true test of how much heat this thing will create...but so far, so good.

Posted By: 72chrgrally

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/21/13 10:37 PM

That's great news Matt. Let me know if you are coming out my way this summer.

Steve

Posted By: 383man

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/22/13 03:27 AM

Glad to hear you got it fixed.

I know with my 493 I love the torque it has when nailing it in third gear on the highway. At 50 to 60 mph I dont need no down shifting as it goes like a rocket just leaving it in third and stepping on the gas. Do you have any et predictions for the new combo ? Ron

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/22/13 03:33 AM

Quote:

That's great news Matt. Let me know if you are coming out my way this summer.

Steve

Will do Steve...it is a bit of a long haul, and I don't usually drive this thing far, but there are a couple other guys from the hammer who keep telling me to come out there, so I just might have to make the trip one time

Posted By: mshred

Re: HELP! 904 no reverse or third, wheels locking up in 3rd - 05/22/13 03:35 AM

Quote:

Glad to hear you got it fixed. I know with my 493 I love the torque it has when nailing it in third gear on the highway. At 50 to 60 mph I dont need no down shifting as it goes like a rocket just leaving it in third and stepping on the gas. Do you have any et predictions for the new combo ? Ron

Hey Ron, yea the torque is AWESOME! I just love it! I built the combo with hopes to run the 10.90 index class at my local track (first race is this weekend, so I will see how she does, although it will probably be off since it really has not been tuned at all yet). If it goes high 10's on the motor on pump gas I will be happy.

Can't wait to launch this thing off the trans brake and see what it does