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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: gdonovan]
#1437015
05/15/13 08:20 PM
05/15/13 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: OzHemi]
#1437018
05/15/13 09:09 PM
05/15/13 09:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,412
northeast ohio
hulmule
pro stock
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ask Scott Harms see what he thinks. Probally has same carbs
1969 Dodge Coronet R/T Convertible
1979 LiL Red x2
2012 Yellow Jacket
2006 mega cab
1977 Trailduster
1979 Trailduster
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: OzHemi]
#1437019
05/16/13 06:32 AM
05/16/13 06:32 AM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Maybe just look around at swap meets, etc for a better couple if you don't want to go to the expense of new? 
.
I'm working under time constraints so waiting for a GOOD pair to show up at a swap meet isn't an option. $250 a pop at Summit is not terrible, but I'd rather put that money towards rims.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1437024
05/16/13 01:00 PM
05/16/13 01:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
I can restore those to look and run as good as new, no problem. 
I don't think that's an option at this point?
Quote:
I'm working under time constraints so waiting for a GOOD pair to show up at a swap meet isn't an option. $250 a pop at Summit is not terrible, but I'd rather put that money towards rims.
What's the time from you getting one to shipping it back out? Say something like a new unused Thunder carb to make it look like an original carb ?
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1437026
05/16/13 01:29 PM
05/16/13 01:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
I can restore those to look and run as good as new, no problem.
If I was doing a restoration Scott you would be the first man I'd call but a restoration isn't required for this little operation ;-)
I'm just looking to put the dual quads back on the GTX, nothing special required. Either I'll get these working or just pop for a pair of remans and sell these off as cores (with full disclosure) to offset some of the cost.
Going to pickup 50 pounds of glass bead from Tractor Supply tonight and see how it goes, nothing to lose. Nothing is bound up, just corrosion in the bowls. The outside of the carbs look better than the insides!
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: gdonovan]
#1437028
05/16/13 01:58 PM
05/16/13 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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Blair County,PA
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Quote:
Quote:
I can restore those to look and run as good as new, no problem.
If I was doing a restoration Scott you would be the first man I'd call but a restoration isn't required for this little operation ;-)
I'm just looking to put the dual quads back on the GTX, nothing special required. Either I'll get these working or just pop for a pair of remans and sell these off as cores (with full disclosure) to offset some of the cost.
Going to pickup 50 pounds of glass bead from Tractor Supply tonight and see how it goes, nothing to lose. Nothing is bound up, just corrosion in the bowls. The outside of the carbs look better than the insides!
When you're done glass beading,make sure you get "ALL" the glass out of everywhere,you will have a nightmare if you don't !
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1437029
05/16/13 09:22 PM
05/16/13 09:22 PM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
When you're done glass beading,make sure you get "ALL" the glass out of everywhere,you will have a nightmare if you don't !
Oh ya- Soaked in a 5 gallon pail of soap and water, rinsed, blown out, agitated in the bucket again and a final rinse followed with a good carb clean blasting.
The worse one cleaned up nice, one primary jet is being stubborn though. I'm letting it sit overnight soaking in liquid wrench. I might leave it alone since it ran well or I might bang an extractor in the jet and dig it out. I don't like the idea of having one stuck in there.
I didn't get crazy cleaning certain areas since they are just cosmetic interior areas and I wanted to limit the time the unit was in the cabinet.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: gdonovan]
#1437030
05/16/13 09:23 PM
05/16/13 09:23 PM
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Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1437034
05/17/13 05:49 AM
05/17/13 05:49 AM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Looking good, those should cleaned up great! ........Look what I'm facing this evening 
With glass bead I was expecting a different finish, different grit perhaps?
Wow, those poor 409 carbs look like they spent time in a lake! What a mess.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1437035
05/17/13 10:20 AM
05/17/13 10:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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Quote:
And the owner "Helped" me get the throttle shafts free......By bending the blades in half with a screw driver.......
We both know those will buff out ! 
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1437037
05/17/13 11:15 AM
05/17/13 11:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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Quote:
Yes glass beading (or other media blasting) can leave a high degree of surface texture/appearance variability depending on the type/size/pressure of the media. I avoid blasting in my process if at all possible but some really rough examples (i.e. these 409 carbs) will require it. In this case its only one of several steps used to revive the factory look (vibratory finisher, sonic cleaner, tumbler, etc.).
You forgot one item !! 
Also,check your email
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: gdonovan]
#1437040
05/17/13 01:38 PM
05/17/13 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
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Quote:
No luck on that one jet yet, would not budge this morning even with an easy out in it. When I get home tonight, I might try heating the casting and placing something cold on the jet and see if it pops loose.
Really should have left it alone ! 
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1437042
05/17/13 07:46 PM
05/17/13 07:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Quote:
No luck on that one jet yet, would not budge this morning even with an easy out in it. When I get home tonight, I might try heating the casting and placing something cold on the jet and see if it pops loose.
Really should have left it alone !
Got it out but it put up a hell of a fight!
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: gdonovan]
#1437045
07/31/13 04:55 AM
07/31/13 04:55 AM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Units are 4758S and 4761S 500's and worked fabulous on my 440.
Question- Does anyone know what the stock jetting is for these two carburetors? I looked everywhere this morning but could find no reference.
They have a lean spot just off idle (not transition but steady throttle) and I want to return them to a baseline before making changes but don't know what the baseline jetting is.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: Skeptic]
#1437047
07/31/13 05:33 PM
07/31/13 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Here is what Edelbrock has listed for the 500cfm AVS knockoff, with single and dual quad listings. That's the way I set my 4966 carbs up with, the engine doesn't go on the dyno for a few weeks. We'll see how close they are then. 
Thanks! I looked at the AFB listings since thats what I'm running, AVS secondaries are very different than the AFB.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: Skeptic]
#1437049
07/31/13 11:06 PM
07/31/13 11:06 PM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Here is what Edelbrock has listed for the 500cfm AVS knockoff, with single and dual quad listings. That's the way I set my 4966 carbs up with, the engine doesn't go on the dyno for a few weeks. We'll see how close they are then.
Edelbrock has the primary and secondary jets mixed.
Larger jets go on the primary side.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: gdonovan]
#1437050
08/01/13 09:37 AM
08/01/13 09:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
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Quote:
Quote:
Here is what Edelbrock has listed for the 500cfm AVS knockoff, with single and dual quad listings. That's the way I set my 4966 carbs up with, the engine doesn't go on the dyno for a few weeks. We'll see how close they are then.
Edelbrock has the primary and secondary jets mixed.
Larger jets go on the primary side.
Quote:
#1803/#1804 are calibrated for dual-quad applications and factory equipped with: Metering Jets -Primary .086, Secondary .077 ; Metering Rods - .065 x .057; #1804:Metering Jets -Primary .086, Secondary .077 ; Metering Rods - .065 x .052; Step-Up Spring - orange (5" Hg).
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: Skeptic]
#1437052
08/01/13 10:01 AM
08/01/13 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Quote:
#1803/#1804 are calibrated for dual-quad applications and factory equipped with: Metering Jets -Primary .086, Secondary .077 ; Metering Rods - .065 x .057; #1804:Metering Jets -Primary .086, Secondary .077 ; Metering Rods - .065 x .052; Step-Up Spring - orange (5" Hg).
You listed the wrong carb, look up a 500 CFM AFB (performer series).
"Comes with: Metering Jets - Primary .086, Secondary .095; Metering Rods - .065 x .052; Step-Up Spring - orange (5" Hg)"
This is incorrect, I spent hours last night chasing my tail due to it.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: Skeptic]
#1437053
08/01/13 10:07 AM
08/01/13 10:07 AM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Those carbs look great, what did you use to refinish them? 
Glass bead from Tractor Supply, new screws from True Value Hardware, kits and floats from Ebay and gold paint from AC Moore.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: gdonovan]
#1437054
08/01/13 11:41 PM
08/01/13 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
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Quote:
You listed the wrong carb, look up a 500 CFM AFB (performer series).
"Comes with: Metering Jets - Primary .086, Secondary .095; Metering Rods - .065 x .052; Step-Up Spring - orange (5" Hg)"
This is incorrect, I spent hours last night chasing my tail due to it.
The listing I posted is for the dual quad calibrations, if you aren't using them in that configuration, my bad. The performer and thunder avs carbs show the same single quad calibrations. In the Edelbrock carbs they are only different in the secondary actuation. That is not the case in the original AFB/AVS carbs. I found this out the hard way. Anyway, good luck with your project.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: Skeptic]
#1437055
08/02/13 05:16 AM
08/02/13 05:16 AM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
The listing I posted is for the dual quad calibrations, if you aren't using them in that configuration, my bad.
If you *looked at the link* the information you quoted was for the AVS carburetor, not AFB. AFB while similar are NOT the same as AVS.
From the AFB page-
Quote:
EDELBROCK PERFORMER SERIES 500 CFM, MANUAL OR ELECTRIC CHOKE CARBURETORS CALIBRATED FOR PERFORMANCE
Designed and calibrated for small cubic-inch engines such as 305 c.i.d and smaller Chevrolet; 302 c.i.d. and smaller Ford and dual-quad applications such as Edelbrock C-26, F-28 and Street Tunnel Ram. Match with an Edelbrock Performer or Performer EPS manifold and other brands of similar design. Includes both timed and full vacuum ports for ignition advance. Comes with: Metering Jets - Primary .086, Secondary .095 ; Metering Rods - .065 x .052; Step-Up Spring - orange (5" Hg).
The page is wrong.
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: a12superbee]
#1437058
08/02/13 07:14 PM
08/02/13 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Quote:
I've tried to help as much as I can, so I'm done 
And taking one for the team.....
I appreciate the link to Edelbrocks site, don't know why its so hard to grasp that Edelbrock has the listing wrong for the AFB jetting.
Verified it today by driving around with the O2 gauge operational showing the correct air/fuel mixture with the the larger jets on the primary side, as it should be.
Must be a Holley thing ;-)
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Re: Carter 500's, can this mess be fixed & if so worth it?
[Re: Skeptic]
#1437060
09/05/13 06:52 AM
09/05/13 06:52 AM
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Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
I'm going to  this up, with better data.
My combo- 406" B engine mildly ported RPM heads 9.7:1 cr, Comp Cams thumper- the baby thumper 227/241 .518/.504" lift with 1.6 rockers 107lsa and a Offy tunnel ram. The previous jets listed were VEERRRy lean. The final jetting ended up .92 primary .89 secondary .52/.62 metering rods.
Current jetting is .95 on the primaries with an old set of .60/.70 metering rods and .83 on the secondaries.
With the O2 gauge this is very close with some minor tuning needed with the metering springs to dial in the cruise a touch better. Car just screams to beat the band now, rear gear change coming up next.
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