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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: Jeepmon]
#1423871
04/22/13 08:38 PM
04/22/13 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I'm no TC guy but you still want it to stall at about 200 to 300 rpm above peak torque rpm to utilize your torque... it seems that the larger TC has less slippage once its up to stall as in 3% or so... basically you have to hope the TC guys does it right... I'm not gonna get into who is the best because thats more of a personal preference because it worked with their application 
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1423874
04/22/13 09:13 PM
04/22/13 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Listen to ATI 
That other dude is prolly runnin a " J " conveter and a purple shaft cam 
 What's wrong with a J convertor... 
Hopefully nothing... I have a J conv in the Rampage
and talked to Paul on it to find out the stall.. with
500 ft lbs at my weight it should stall at 5000
but Paul didnt know much about using it with a OD
so he guessed it might have as much as 10% slippage
when in OD.. I'll see what happens in a month
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: 340RICK]
#1423875
04/22/13 09:48 PM
04/22/13 09:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Listen to ATI
That other dude is prolly runnin a " J " conveter and a purple shaft cam
My money is on a glide and an 8" and a VERY fast car..(not mine BTW)
Chris.. 
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1423876
04/22/13 10:05 PM
04/22/13 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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The techs at ATI would be the people to listen to. Lupo set me up with a 9 inch, and was able to adjust it from 5500 to 6500 rpm, quite a spread. I run 528 cubes, peak torque at 5100 rpm. A big motor like yours needs a big core to lock up according to Lupo, and I can understand that. At some point, you can only get a converter so tight, putting the 8 inch in the possibly "too loose" category with a high torque combo like yours. His statement was the larger core allows tighter lockup on the top end for better efficiency on bigger motors.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: Jeepmon]
#1423878
04/23/13 02:35 AM
04/23/13 02:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,369
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,369
Las Vegas
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My questions for most of the guys here are
1)How do you know you have the best possible converter in your car? Who's judgement are you using to make this conclusion. just trusting the converter guy are keeping records and maximizing each piece?
2) How many of you are willing to spend the money and take the time to make sure you have the EXACT right converter for your car?
IMO they ONLY way to know this is to experiment and be willing to spend money and take the time to try out different pieces. ANYTHING else is simple an educated guess. I have been around enough race cars and seen this WAY to many times. Guys THINK they have the perfect piece only to find out they are leaving ET and MPH on the table.
I can tell you from my experience with my last 4 BB Mopar engines that they ALL worked better with an 8" than with a 9" converter. This is not just the case in my car, it has been the case with customers cars as well. FWIW the last piece that was right in my hoopty was an 8" ATI that only stalled 6600 and had 3% slip. Oh yeah went to 8 S/ST finals with it so I guess it worked ok...
Converter companies do not always get it right the first time but most companies can get it right the second time. There is an old standard that says use the biggest core you can that will acheive the desired stall speed. There are a ton a variables that can affect which size core will work best. Every company seems to have their "magic" combination, or their go to stuff for certain engine combos. Finding someone who is willing to make sure you get the right piece is what you need to be after here. Dont get dissapointed if it is not perfect the first time. Remember this is all theory until you put it in the car and go down the track.
Oh yeah. Be careful who you allow to cut your stuff open for inspection when thereis a problem. I learned that very expensive lesson just recently. I had two converters cut open for inspection after a trans failure. Now in my opinion BOTH are junk for my combination. They both came back tighter than they were before. One 500-600 the other 1400!!! I will make do with one of them the rest of the year but will be starting over after that in search of the elusive "magic" combination. Sure hope it dont take nearly as many $$$ as last time.
One last topic for discussion. What do you all feel is the best/most consitent type of converter to have, loose or tight?
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1423879
04/23/13 03:18 AM
04/23/13 03:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
goldmember
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
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Quote:
My questions for most of the guys here are
1)How do you know you have the best possible converter in your car? Who's judgement are you using to make this conclusion. just trusting the converter guy are keeping records and maximizing each piece?
2) How many of you are willing to spend the money and take the time to make sure you have the EXACT right converter for your car?
IMO they ONLY way to know this is to experiment and be willing to spend money and take the time to try out different pieces. ANYTHING else is simple an educated guess. I have been around enough race cars and seen this WAY to many times. Guys THINK they have the perfect piece only to find out they are leaving ET and MPH on the table.
I can tell you from my experience with my last 4 BB Mopar engines that they ALL worked better with an 8" than with a 9" converter. This is not just the case in my car, it has been the case with customers cars as well. FWIW the last piece that was right in my hoopty was an 8" ATI that only stalled 6600 and had 3% slip. Oh yeah went to 8 S/ST finals with it so I guess it worked ok...
Converter companies do not always get it right the first time but most companies can get it right the second time. There is an old standard that says use the biggest core you can that will acheive the desired stall speed. There are a ton a variables that can affect which size core will work best. Every company seems to have their "magic" combination, or their go to stuff for certain engine combos. Finding someone who is willing to make sure you get the right piece is what you need to be after here. Dont get dissapointed if it is not perfect the first time. Remember this is all theory until you put it in the car and go down the track.
Oh yeah. Be careful who you allow to cut your stuff open for inspection when thereis a problem. I learned that very expensive lesson just recently. I had two converters cut open for inspection after a trans failure. Now in my opinion BOTH are junk for my combination. They both came back tighter than they were before. One 500-600 the other 1400!!! I will make do with one of them the rest of the year but will be starting over after that in search of the elusive "magic" combination. Sure hope it dont take nearly as many $$$ as last time. (NAILED it on the head!!)
One last topic for discussion. What do you all feel is the best/most consitent type of converter to have, loose or tight?
Thats opening a can of worms,but I'm sure you knew that.
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1423880
04/23/13 03:28 AM
04/23/13 03:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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My choice-loose. Tire slippage starts the lock up proccess earlier, (from what I am told) so a loose converter actually pulls a tad harder , offsetting the loss from spin. This works well with my Torqueflite.
All I know about consistancy is from my limited experience, but the numbers look pretty good, with 330 marks almost dead on, same day.
As far as how close I am to the right converter, I will never know for sure. I would bet that the average combo would need ten or more trys probably using three converters, putting the best to date on the shelf so it is STILL the best. Most of us can't afford the expense of testing like that.
So how do I know I am even close? My dyno guys other cars, as a referance to true hp numbers off his dyno, and also comparing my setup to others similar. I think I got reasonably lucky on all accounts.
Al, how many of those cars were running Torqueflites?
Last edited by gregsdart; 04/23/13 03:38 AM.
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: gregsdart]
#1423881
04/23/13 03:31 AM
04/23/13 03:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,369
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,369
Las Vegas
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I am not trying to cast anyh stones here. Just asking the question so maybe we can all learn something. Does not matter what part we are talking about the only way to know it is perfect for the combo is by trying different pieces.
maybe it is just that this converter thing is a sore subject for me. In my car we have yet to find the "magic bullet" I had one that worked very well on the stop but have yet to find one that is perfect for the car all out. They have all been WAY tight, by different manufactures with dyno info. And now having had my two best pieces ruined by a trans/converter company and after hearing some of the BS from their guy I am just a bit hot about it still. And $3000 poorer by the time I get it all back to where I was....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1423882
04/23/13 03:37 AM
04/23/13 03:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
My questions for most of the guys here are
1)How do you know you have the best possible converter in your car? Who's judgement are you using to make this conclusion. just trusting the converter guy are keeping records and maximizing each piece?
2) How many of you are willing to spend the money and take the time to make sure you have the EXACT right converter for your car?
IMO they ONLY way to know this is to experiment and be willing to spend money and take the time to try out different pieces. ANYTHING else is simple an educated guess. I have been around enough race cars and seen this WAY to many times. Guys THINK they have the perfect piece only to find out they are leaving ET and MPH on the table.
I can tell you from my experience with my last 4 BB Mopar engines that they ALL worked better with an 8" than with a 9" converter. This is not just the case in my car, it has been the case with customers cars as well. FWIW the last piece that was right in my hoopty was an 8" ATI that only stalled 6600 and had 3% slip. Oh yeah went to 8 S/ST finals with it so I guess it worked ok...
Converter companies do not always get it right the first time but most companies can get it right the second time. There is an old standard that says use the biggest core you can that will achieve the desired stall speed. There are a ton a variables that can affect which size core will work best. Every company seems to have their "magic" combination, or their go to stuff for certain engine combos. Finding someone who is willing to make sure you get the right piece is what you need to be after here. Don't get disappointed if it is not perfect the first time. Remember this is all theory until you put it in the car and go down the track.
Oh yeah. Be careful who you allow to cut your stuff open for inspection when there is a problem. I learned that very expensive lesson just recently. I had two converters cut open for inspection after a trans failure. Now in my opinion BOTH are junk for my combination. They both came back tighter than they were before. One 500-600 the other 1400!!! I will make do with one of them the rest of the year but will be starting over after that in search of the elusive "magic" combination. Sure hope it don't take nearly as many $$$ as last time.
One last topic for discussion. What do you all feel is the best/most consistent type of converter to have, loose or tight?
Well, I am one of the guys that Al is talking about. I've tried several converters. All 9" though. So far the best 9" tested, (and that would be 5) was a Hughes GM95..
So Al let me try his 8" ATI in my car. (An ATI converter speced for his car) Left the t-stop in the same place as the last run with my 9" Hughes.
Results were 8" ATI + 1.5 mph and a tenth quicker.. DA was almost identical.. Actually slightly worse with the 8".
Then we played with jetting and picked up another 1.5 mph. (that has nothing to do with the converter, just showing that Al is clueless).
So, my new converter will be an 8" ATI or A1.. Not sure yet on the maker.. 
And I know which type of converter is most consistent.. 
Chris..
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: gregsdart]
#1423884
04/23/13 03:51 AM
04/23/13 03:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And I know which type of converter is most consistent..
Chris..
OK, spill the beans!
Hughes GM93 BS9D..  So.. Very loose..
Chris.. 
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Re: Torque Converter tech tips..
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1423886
04/23/13 04:14 AM
04/23/13 04:14 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 740
WA
JD Dart
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 740
WA
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I sure like the 8" A1 did when it comes off the stop it starts moving. Even they had the first one setup too loose not there fault motor is making more power since last time. I agree with Al you need to spend the extra time and $$ to get it right. I will try the 9" from TS after Boise I bet I'll be back to the 8" How many times have you hurd a car go down the track leaves real soft rpm just hangs for 2-3 seconds then starts moving ask him hey how do you like that convertor they say Or the other way rpm at 7000 and stays there all the way down the track ask him and another and the car runs 11.38 at 112
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