Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mike H]
#1388217
02/16/13 02:26 AM
02/16/13 02:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,294 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,294
Someplace you aren't
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All good suggestions. The Yo might have an electric. You also need to remember that while gas is worse than when the Yo was new, it is LIGHTYEARS from what it was in 1970.
Try an insulator for the carb. That will help some. A Carter will be much worse than a Holley for fuel burn off in case you are wondering.
A 750 is in no way "overcarbing" a 383. Not by a long shot. Even on a stock engine. That's a time honored method of waking one up, I know cause I have done that.
You could solve all of this by just keeping a gas can handy and pouring some down the carb right after you check the oil. An electric pump would help, but isn't necessary.
I want my fair share
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mike H]
#1388218
02/16/13 02:29 AM
02/16/13 02:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,688 Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
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I Live Here
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Posts: 18,688
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Quote:
Thanks Jim, I will do the electric fuel pump. Any recommendations?
Nope, I haven't had good luck with electric pumps. We've run both a Holley pump and a Carter. The Holley started leaking and the Carter just plain quit working. There are good pumps out there, though.
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mike H]
#1388223
02/16/13 03:01 AM
02/16/13 03:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,165 Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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Mass
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As noted by many on this thread, your starting problems are more than likely the result of evaporation due to the Holley being vented,....I have mostly multicarbed cars running Holleys, when gas was good, yeah it could sit for weeks on end and start no problem, todays gas isn't even good for a week in a typical Holley fuel bowl it evaporates so fast, so rather than sit there winding the piss out of your car trying to start it, locate the tube vent on your Holley, and use a small squeeze bottle filled with gasoline to fill the bowl prior to starting, by filling the bowl thru the vent tube, 4 oz should fill it... And it would be a good idea to set your fuel level/float, and/or confirm it's level...Holleys are the easiest carbs to tune/adjust/rebuild, get yourself a Holley tuning guide from HP Books and learn what you need to know... Kere's one of the vents located on a Holley, connected to the primary fuel bowl
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#1388224
02/16/13 03:03 AM
02/16/13 03:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
So, explain to me Mr. csr carb man, why my Toyota starts and my sacred Holley won't. All I want to know.
Like I said above the Holley is probably empty of fuel and the Toyota carb is not. There could be several reasons for this, but most likely the Holley is leaking the fuel out. There are some things that need to be confirmed, but the simple solution is an electric pump. Modern fuels are more prone to evaporation so today's gas will make the problem worse.
The emissions carbs tended to have valves that would close so the carb bowls were not open to atmosphere when the engine was sitting. Your holley carb would not have this feature, causing the fuel to evaporate out of your carb over time. Also the carb could be slowly leaking internally. Whatever the cause, the result is empty fuel bowls in your holley after it's been sitting for a while. This means you have to do a bunch of cranking before the stock mechanical fuel pump can refill the carb bowls enough to provide fuel to fire it. Going to an electric fuel pump is a good solution. I've converted my carbed vehicles to electric fuel pump and never looked back. Just leave the key in the run position for a few seconds for the carb to refill, then pump the gas and hit the key and she fires up like you drove it yesterday.
When you go to install the electric fuel pump, there are two things to keep in mind. One, the fuel pump should be back near the tank so the fuel is pressurized for the whole run, not being sucked like the stock mechanical pump does. Second, you don't want to bolt the pump direct to your car, it needs to be isolated with rubber or foam with no bolts going through the pump body to the car. Failing to mount the pump this way will make for a noisy pump as the sound is amplified by the pump vibrating against your car.
If you check out summit's website they have a variety of pumps in the 80-100 dollar range that would suit your needs just fine. Summit, holley or carter brand pumps in that price range.
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mike H]
#1388225
02/16/13 09:44 AM
02/16/13 09:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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Quote:
so its overcarbed with a 750, contoured bowls,
stock engine, and you're looking for good manners, is not a good match for a carb with an emphasis on high speed airflow. Does it even have a choke?
Depending on the year, and whether it is a california package, an OEM carb including Holleys will have a vent that closes when the engine is off. Take a look at a CAP equiped 383 and copy that.
The Holley 4150/60 style carb has one other weakness in terms of sitting around, if the seal of the fuel bowl gasket isn't perfect, fuel will seep out that way too. For a car that sits a long time, Holley brown or blue gaskets are best, the bowl screws need to be tightened enough and evenly, and no distortion.
The biggest problem with the new fuels is the curve. It's not just the eth, but that's a big contributor. Go spill some some alcohol and you know how fast that evaporates at room temperature.
I agree with the possibility that the line from the fuel pump to the carb may loose some of its fill as well. But if the fuel bowls remain full, the engine would catch after just a crank or two (assuming there is a choke).
Quick checks. First - 4150/60 style carbs have a fuel sight plug on the side of each bowl. SO take a look to see (small pen light may be needed) if there's fuel in the bowls. It needs to almost at the level of the plug or in the middle of the window on some of the newer versions. Take the aircleaner lid off. Work the throttle and see if fuel squirts out and into the front two barrels (holes). If not, there's no fuel in the accelerator pump, and probably none in the bowl. The acceperator pump is another place fuel can seep out on a 4150/60 model.
There's introductory explanations to carbs, afbs, oem Holleys, and emmission packages over at the imperial club dot org. Look for the Chrysler Master Technician Conference booklets from the mid 60s into the 70s.
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mike H]
#1388226
02/16/13 10:37 AM
02/16/13 10:37 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,139 West Tennessee
rbstroker
super stock
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super stock
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Posts: 1,139
West Tennessee
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I have three holleys on my big block. No problem starting in the spring after sitting all winter. Maybe the Toyota rice paper gaskets and exposure to nuclear radiation help out the toy.
This is the land of the free
because of the brave
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mattax]
#1388227
02/16/13 10:45 AM
02/16/13 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,872 connecticut
pnypwr
master
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master
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Posts: 4,872
connecticut
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my convertible sat for 2 yrs with a 750 street avenger, elec choke. had to move it to get the snowblower out cranked it over 10 or 15 times pumped the gas 5 or 6 times cranked again...if it hits ill stop and pump the gas 5 or 6 times, if not i repeat with a 10 or 15 cranks then pump the gas. when it fires it runs rough but a steady pedal untill it levels out keeps it alive and has always worked for me even in the dead of winter. if you have white smoke coming out the pipes and its not running its flooded...hold pedal to floor and then try to start. I dont think its the carb or the fuel its more in the procedure of how your trying to start a dry carb. an elec pump could help bu you could also be asking for more of a headache...comes down to learn how to start the car when its sitting. as for the yota staring right up its a whole different animal, however when that carb messes up you wont get out of it for a 40 dollar rebuild kit...those things are a nightmare
"Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?"
05 ram 2500 ctd 74 gremlin x 360 65 mustang 347 70 coronet R/T 440 03 Mach 1
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mike H]
#1388229
02/16/13 11:39 AM
02/16/13 11:39 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 259 Khemi, Stygia
Mebsuta
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Posts: 259
Khemi, Stygia
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IMO Holleys are pretty easy to start and Carters or Edelbrocks are a little harder if they are hot or get dry. Neither is really a big deal, even without a choke. You should see them try to start an R-3350.
If I let mine sit for a real long time, it usually means carburetor rebuild. It's an old hot rod, not a work or commuter car.
Last edited by Mebsuta; 02/16/13 11:44 AM.
68 Roadrunner. 383 4-spd. Beat up.
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: JohnH]
#1388232
02/16/13 12:13 PM
02/16/13 12:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 253 Orange County, CA
Mike H
OP
enthusiast
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Posts: 253
Orange County, CA
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I really appreciate all the recommendations. The Holley has no choke- the guy who built the engine was adamant about it not needing one. Like I said, if I drive it consistently, it performs well, and idles down nicely after only one minute or so of running. It's definitely not a daily driver at this point in my life- maybe that's the problem. I've done the Stabil thing when leaving for Montana. I guess part of my frustration is the huge amount of time I have spent chasing parts, doing bodywork, sandblasting parts, paying attention to all the resto details, etc etc and then ending up with a problem I hadn't anticipated.
The first carb I had on the car was a new Edelbrock, I think a 1406? It had a terrible off-idle bog that we couldn't seem to get rid of. The Holley certainly runs great and did solve that problem.
I think part of the problem is that the Toyota spoiled me. I think 86 was the last year for carbed trucks. I have 230,000 miles on that truck with CA gas and the carb has never been rebuilt. I don't really understand carbs, but I did take it apart to replace a defective float, and again to replace an altitude sensing diaphragm. But I really don't get the theory. I just R & R.
Sorry for coming across so hostile to the Holley. Just venting.
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Re: Are all US carbs junk?
[Re: Mike H]
#1388234
02/16/13 12:42 PM
02/16/13 12:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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master
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Posts: 4,333
Prospect, PA
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The gas evaporates, its not the carbs fault. A simple solution is to buy a wash bottle (lab supply) and squirt a few ozs of fuel into the carb vent if it sits for any lenght of time. The white smoke is probably valve seal/guides.
Last edited by BSB67; 02/17/13 02:12 PM.
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