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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1371164
01/17/13 01:59 PM
01/17/13 01:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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At the very least I'd use a 4 point cage (& likely more) plus subframe connectors. No info on a kit but as you said it'd be about how much jungle jim you're willing to tolerate.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1371165
01/17/13 02:03 PM
01/17/13 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,541
USA
hudsonhornet7x
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,541
USA
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Quote:
At the very least I'd use a 4 point cage (& likely more) plus subframe connectors. No info on a kit but as you said it'd be about how much jungle jim you're willing to tolerate.
THanks, I have installed subframe connectors, torque boxes, inner fender to firewall braces, and a radiator core support brace. i want to stregthen the car as much as I can.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1371166
01/17/13 02:06 PM
01/17/13 02:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,155
Cruising!
QuickDodge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,155
Cruising!
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I wouldn't want a roll cage on a street car. I've been led to believe that a roll cage should only be used in a car where the driver is wearing a helmet,race car style restraints and protective gear. A typical 3 point seat belt allows a person's body to move around in the car to a degree. In an accident, a person's head could slam into the roll cage causing injuries.
A roll bar located behind the front seats in a car that doesn't have a back seat would probably be ok, but I'm not an expert on this subject.
Last edited by QuickDodge; 01/17/13 02:08 PM.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1371167
01/17/13 02:07 PM
01/17/13 02:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15,995
RI Deep in the rust belt
chargervert
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15,995
RI Deep in the rust belt
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If you go to Dodge Charger.com,and look at the pictures posted by member Elanmar,and see what his car looked like after a side impact crash,you will want to put a cage in every Mopar from this era. My friend was hit broadside in his 73 Road Runner a few weeks ago and the results were about the same. These cars have zero side impact protection. If my friend was hit on the drivers side he would have died. If he had a passenger with them they would have died. The passengers seat was crushed into the drivers seat. He could stand up with his feet on the ground where the passengers seat used to be! The rocker panel and roof were crushed all the way to the center of the car. I'm currently building a 71 Charger for a daily driver,and i'm looking into a cage and beefing up the rocker panels to improve side impact protection.
70 Charger R/T SE 472 Hemi
70 Charger R/T convertible
70 Charger R/T V Code Sixpack
69 Charger R/T SE Sunroofcar
68 Charger 383
68 Charger 318
71 Charger R/T
70 Challenger convertible
71 Challenger convertible
71 Cuda 340
09 Challenger R/T Classic
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: chargervert]
#1371168
01/17/13 02:11 PM
01/17/13 02:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,155
Cruising!
QuickDodge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,155
Cruising!
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Hardtop cars, without a post connecting the rocker panels to the roof do NOT fare well in side impacts! (They look good though!)
Last edited by QuickDodge; 01/17/13 02:11 PM.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: chargervert]
#1371173
01/17/13 02:19 PM
01/17/13 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,566
Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,566
Motor City
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My Challenger is a street car with a 25.5 cert cage. Drag Radials, Plated insured & parachute mount slides out & can be placed in the trunk. I have a flip down license plate braket on the rear from a 68' Chevelle for the when the chute bracket is on the car I don't have to remove the license plate.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: dustergirl340]
#1371176
01/17/13 02:35 PM
01/17/13 02:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
67Satty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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Quote:
Your head can travel a long distance during an impact, and hitting a metal bar (even padded with foam) without a helmet would hurt. Even a thick head like mine.
I like to sometimes putt around with my three kids in the back seat of the car sometimes. For that reason I will never put a roll bar in my car while it still has a back seat in it. Way too dangerous for whoever is sitting in back IMHO.
I'll run 11.50s with a lap belt before I will do that. At the point someday I run faster than 11.49, a roll bar will go in and the back seat will come out.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: 67Satty]
#1371177
01/17/13 04:38 PM
01/17/13 04:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15,995
RI Deep in the rust belt
chargervert
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15,995
RI Deep in the rust belt
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I was thinking of making the roof hoop so it would fit up tight to the roof just inside the roof structure,then padding it and putting the headliner over it so it is hidden. I was going to pad the roof with insulation to make it seamless. I was going to make the rear seat cross brace removable so it could come out when people are in the rear seat. It could be held in with cleavis pins,and have padded caps with snaps to fit over the recievers when not in use.
70 Charger R/T SE 472 Hemi
70 Charger R/T convertible
70 Charger R/T V Code Sixpack
69 Charger R/T SE Sunroofcar
68 Charger 383
68 Charger 318
71 Charger R/T
70 Challenger convertible
71 Challenger convertible
71 Cuda 340
09 Challenger R/T Classic
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1371178
01/17/13 05:23 PM
01/17/13 05:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 109
OHIO
BUBBAZ572
MR. CAPS LOCK
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MR. CAPS LOCK
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 109
OHIO
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10 PT CAGE IN MY 70 CUDA STREET CAR SWING OUT SIDE BARS NO HALO OR BAR BAR BEHIND THE FRONT SEATS ALSO LEFT OUT THE DASH BAR CAR RUNS 10.0 AND NEVER HAD PROBLEM WITH TECH 
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: BUBBAZ572]
#1371179
01/17/13 06:37 PM
01/17/13 06:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,541
USA
hudsonhornet7x
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,541
USA
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Quote:
10 PT CAGE IN MY 70 CUDA STREET CAR
SWING OUT SIDE BARS
NO HALO OR BAR BAR BEHIND THE FRONT SEATS
ALSO LEFT OUT THE DASH BAR
CAR RUNS 10.0 AND NEVER HAD PROBLEM WITH TECH
Would it be possible to get a couple pics of your cage? It sounds very interesting.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: dustergirl340]
#1371181
01/17/13 07:07 PM
01/17/13 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,632
SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN
72N96RR
I LOVE WEDGIES
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I LOVE WEDGIES
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,632
SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN
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Quote:
Roll Bar: All cars running 11.49 or quicker must be equipped with a roll bar conforming to NHRA general regulations.
Roll Cage: All cars running 10.99 or quicker must be equipped with a roll cage conforming to NHRA general regulations*
*By NHRA rules, a roll cage is not required in a full bodied car until 9.99 or 135MPH. A roll cage is required between 10.99 and 10.00 only at speeds of 135 or higher.
Always lots of debate on this subject but for me a roll bar or cage equals wearing a helmet and harness. Not something I want to do on the street. Your head can travel a long distance during an impact, and hitting a metal bar (even padded with foam) without a helmet would hurt. Even a thick head like mine.
great info DG!!
1972 Road Runner / GTX 440 4spd Dana 3.54 Just about to turn 26K original miles..
A boat, a GMC truck, some Craftsman Tools, LOTS of Zombie Protection, and a few Goldfish..
If you love someone set them free..
If they come back it means nobody else wanted them either..!!
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: NANKET]
#1371182
01/17/13 07:09 PM
01/17/13 07:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,281
WI
wannadrag
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,281
WI
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Quote:
How do you think a classic car would do against a newer car (2000's) in a crash? Answer it to yourself and then watch this and see if you were right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrXViFfMGk
I would like to see that test with a car that has 2 normal frame rails not saying the results would differ but would be interesting to see.Those impala type bodies up till aroud 64 has a frame sorta shaped like a X and would naturally fold up with a impact in the corner.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: wannadrag]
#1371183
01/17/13 08:15 PM
01/17/13 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
How do you think a classic car would do against a newer car (2000's) in a crash? Answer it to yourself and then watch this and see if you were right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrXViFfMGk
I would like to see that test with a car that has 2 normal frame rails not saying the results would differ but would be interesting to see.Those impala type bodies up till aroud 64 has a frame sorta shaped like a X and would naturally fold up with a impact in the corner.
New cars are built to absorb the crash in stages. Old cars have no such provision. A roll basic roll bar or different frame added to an old car would do little to help someone survive from the type of crash shown.
As for a backseat with a roll bar; that is just plain dangerous to the passengers. Seat belts in old cars are just not sufficient to keep you in place. Heads will bounce on most surfaces. A piece of steel tubing that is placed lower and closer to your head will crack your mellon, (padding will not help, a helmet will only marginally help).
Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen!
Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: dOrk !]
#1371185
01/17/13 11:59 PM
01/17/13 11:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,117
Tucson, AZ
Ramrod39
My New Title
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My New Title
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,117
Tucson, AZ
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Quote:
Quote:
How do you think a classic car would do against a newer car (2000's) in a crash? Answer it to yourself and then watch this and see if you were right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrXViFfMGk
DAMN ... 
How solid was that Bel Air? Did you see the cloud of RED dust come out from under it? Would an insurance institute looking to prove a point fudge or overlook such a thing?
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1371186
01/18/13 03:09 AM
01/18/13 03:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 989
WI, USA
67dodge67
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 989
WI, USA
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Quote:
I have a 68 charger that I am in the process of restoring and currently it is a stripped bare shell. I have always been interested in adding a roll bar/cage to it.
Does anyone know of a street friendly system that will allow access to the rear seat, and still allow easy access for drivers?
I am not too interested in building a jungle gym, just a good system to strenghten the car up. Also, at what point does the NHRA mandate a roll bar/cage?
Thanks for any help you can give,
HH
Contact S&W Race Cars for a roll bar kit for your car. I went with one for my Coronet after talking a several members on the race section. I chose to pull out my rear seat, however, I could have left it in and have had people squeeze in, if absolutely necessary. Here's a pic. I fabbed up the swing out bar for the driver's side. Never had any issues with tech either.
Best wishes, Dave
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: Ramrod39]
#1371189
01/19/13 07:36 PM
01/19/13 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
Quote:
How do you think a classic car would do against a newer car (2000's) in a crash? Answer it to yourself and then watch this and see if you were right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrXViFfMGk
I would like to see that test with a car that has 2 normal frame rails not saying the results would differ but would be interesting to see.Those impala type bodies up till aroud 64 has a frame sorta shaped like a X and would naturally fold up with a impact in the corner.
Quote:
How solid was that Bel Air? Did you see the cloud of RED dust come out from under it? Would an insurance institute looking to prove a point fudge or overlook such a thing?
Exactly. That era of Bel-Air was an x frame design that had nothing but sheetmetal hanging out where the doors are.
That isn't to say our moaprs are a bunch better, but an X frame is no where near as good as a perimeter frame.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1371190
01/19/13 07:42 PM
01/19/13 07:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,393
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
I was thinking of making the roof hoop so it would fit up tight to the roof just inside the roof structure,then padding it and putting the headliner over it so it is hidden. I was going to pad the roof with insulation to make it seamless. I was going to make the rear seat cross brace removable so it could come out when people are in the rear seat. It could be held in with cleavis pins,and have padded caps with snaps to fit over the recievers when not in use.
Hmmm. IF you could put the A and B piller uprights and the halo tucked up into the existing structure so tight they would fit under the existings panels, this could almost work. However, adding a cross bar behind the seats would kill it because you would have to leave a stub hanging out in space for the removeable bar to pin into. That is like just putting a target out there for someone to smash into and would actually, IMO, be more dangerous than a cross bar.
Like quickdodge said, it isn't the problem that you can pad a roll cage vs hitting the stock inner body structure. It is the fact that you signficantly reduce the space your bady has to stretch before hitting anything. If in stock form your head is 6" away from the roof sill, you have that far to move before making contact. By contrast, put a 1.5" round roll bar tube that is spaced 1" away from the sill to allow you welding access and now you only have 3.5" to allow for movement before striking a solid object. 6PKRTSE has a very nice cage in his car, but I'd hate to be in a hard street accident in it, especially with the funny car cage add in, because your melon will be a pinball inside all that tubing.
Quote:
Quote:
How do you think a classic car would do against a newer car (2000's) in a crash? Answer it to yourself and then watch this and see if you were right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrXViFfMGk
I would like to see that test with a car that has 2 normal frame rails not saying the results would differ but would be interesting to see.Those impala type bodies up till aroud 64 has a frame sorta shaped like a X and would naturally fold up with a impact in the corner.
Quote:
How solid was that Bel Air? Did you see the cloud of RED dust come out from under it? Would an insurance institute looking to prove a point fudge or overlook such a thing?
Exactly. That era of Bel-Air was an x frame design that had nothing but sheetmetal hanging out where the doors are.
That isn't to say our mopars are a bunch better, but an X frame is no where near as good as a perimeter frame.
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1371191
01/22/13 08:55 AM
01/22/13 08:55 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408
Manhattan, IL
SixPackRT
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408
Manhattan, IL
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I would go with a 6 point as stated earlier. You can always add a few points (pain yes, but possible). But a six point will get you what your looking for. I have one in a T-type I have and had the shop that installed it keep the side bars as low as they possibly could and still be safe (and legal). I didn't want a swing out bar because of rattles and for sake of being more rigid. Keep the bars going into the trunk as high as you can to allow as much access to the back seat as possible. I don't know what kits are on the market, but I would look at getting what you want done for your needs. Any good chassis guy/shop ought to be able to accommodate you. Also (its been a while) but chrome moly tubing will allow you to go with smaller diameter bars than mild steel if memory serves. Scott
70 Coronet RT 440+6
64 Dodge 330 - Future Hemi Clone
17 Challenger Hellcat - Green Go Driver
86 Buick T-Type Turbo V-6
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Re: Rollbars/cages livable on the street?
[Re: SixPackRT]
#1371192
01/22/13 12:01 PM
01/22/13 12:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
but chrome moly tubing will allow you to go with smaller diameter bars than mild steel if memory serves.
Scott
You can only use 1 5/8" cm on a roll cage, a 6 or 8 point roll bar has to be 1 3/4".
I have a 6 point bar with the pro street bars in my Dart. No one rides in the back seat, IMO it's to dangerous even in a minor accident.
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