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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1365545
01/07/13 01:21 PM
01/07/13 01:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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I'm convinced & I needed some backup on this. You know how customers are about spending money twice & this guy is a friend. Thanks again guys 
He may be a friend but don't short change yourself, if something goes wrong with the engine who is going to be the warranty station, if its you are you getting enough to be the warranty station ?
I stopped doing stuff like that for friends because I'm not getting paid enough to have to pay out of my pocket to redo something I have no control over how it is being treated. 
Plus when it comes to money you'll see how good a friend the person really is ... 
Amen Brother...
Yup I have lot's more friends now that I don't do side work anymore. But I did make a good living doing it years ago and helped me pay for racing.
So I completely understand why guys do it, for money!!!
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: sam64]
#1365549
01/07/13 10:46 PM
01/07/13 10:46 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Every shop these days uses a Hines computer balancer that is easy to use and very very accurate. Grinding a gram or two off new nice rods is just not done--take em out--weigh them up and go with it--a few grams is way closer than anything but the space shuttle--pistons are always close enough too.
Prove to me that a few grams one way or the other made or ruined any combo , even a modern Prostock and I will give you my house!
They may sell China parts that do need looking at but I can teach a 6th grader to do great balance work on a Hines in about 6 hours!--They are all spin and drill--Heavy metal is almost never used anymore--spin it, drill two 3/4 inch holes a half inch deep and you wind up spending more time cleanning it after than balance time--it is a no brainer to get one Nascar close. Look at your pistons and rods, if they have holes and grinding you are dealing with a shop that does more harm than good if we are talking aftermarket parts ( stock rods are a different tale) SCAT makes some of the best done right stuff out there for the average guy--the rods they sell are usually Dead On--Cranks are designed for Target bob weights and are easy to balance unless you are building a turd combo--yes..check pinfit, crank size, taper etc but then what ya gonna do? Regrind the crank? Get pins right , don't worry about the rest if it is decent close. Relax, it is not that hard. Loose is good.....tight, she no gonna work! That is the key. Most folks can't run a mic well enough to check taper in a crank--when Eagle and the rest first started years and years ago with China--it was all junk but now--we have Americans ther to mill wright it all and have shown them over the years what we expect--those parts have gotten WAY better as time has passed--Way better! Scat is the brand I love--Eagle --ehhh, Oh yes Callies is great but the price!!
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1365550
01/07/13 11:24 PM
01/07/13 11:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,799
ILL
MLR426
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,799
ILL
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Quote:
Doesn't matter whose stroker kit you purchase, it should be gone thru to confirm all specs/fit/finish, it's foolish to pass off any engine component with out checking it out, regardless of the "name" on it.... 
That is exactly what I tell every customer. I want them to buy it as an unbalanced assembly, so I can check and correct to my liking.
MLR426
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: ]
#1365551
01/07/13 11:39 PM
01/07/13 11:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,799
ILL
MLR426
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,799
ILL
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Quote:
Every shop these days uses a Hines computer balancer that is easy to use and very very accurate. Grinding a gram or two off new nice rods is just not done--take em out--weigh them up and go with it--a few grams is way closer than anything but the space shuttle--pistons are always close enough too.
Prove to me that a few grams one way or the other made or ruined any combo , even a modern Prostock and I will give you my house!
They may sell China parts that do need looking at but I can teach a 6th grader to do great balance work on a Hines in about 6 hours!--They are all spin and drill--Heavy metal is almost never used anymore--spin it, drill two 3/4 inch holes a half inch deep and you wind up spending more time cleanning it after than balance time--it is a no brainer to get one Nascar close. Look at your pistons and rods, if they have holes and grinding you are dealing with a shop that does more harm than good if we are talking aftermarket parts ( stock rods are a different tale) SCAT makes some of the best done right stuff out there for the average guy--the rods they sell are usually Dead On--Cranks are designed for Target bob weights and are easy to balance unless you are building a turd combo--yes..check pinfit, crank size, taper etc but then what ya gonna do? Regrind the crank? Get pins right , don't worry about the rest if it is decent close. Relax, it is not that hard. Loose is good.....tight, she no gonna work! That is the key. Most folks can't run a mic well enough to check taper in a crank--when Eagle and the rest first started years and years ago with China--it was all junk but now--we have Americans ther to mill wright it all and have shown them over the years what we expect--those parts have gotten WAY better as time has passed--Way better! Scat is the brand I love--Eagle --ehhh, Oh yes Callies is great but the price!!
What if I told you Eagle and Scat came off the same boat from the same port in Hong Kong ? Yes they have gotten a lot better over the years and thats great. The reason they have gotten better is the work the importer Paul Weisner has done with the manufacturer etc, he also has crank grinders in Hong Kong as well as in Southern Cal where all pasrts are staged, and checked. rods are matched to the closest set weight and cranks are checked with mics before shipping to Scat and Eagle. Back in the late 90's Paul told me they were shipping Eagle a million dollars a month in cranks and rods. I know styles in parts have changed a little and in all they are much better parts. On one of my visits Paul had small parts all over his desk, after viewing I looked at him and said you have been doing a lot of metalurge haven't you ? Paul just smiled and said I've been doing a lot of testing to improve all parts and looking a steel grain structures etc. Tenius Olsen tensile strength etc.
MLR426
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: JohnRR]
#1365552
01/07/13 11:53 PM
01/07/13 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Carson City, NV
440sourcedotcom
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Carson City, NV
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Tell him to save his money and just have the local guy balance it and not pay the source for it ????
oh wait , let me guess , you can only buy their kits balanced ...
Nope, our kits have been available both balanced and unbalanced since day one. We charge $150 to balance, which has not increased in over 6 years. This $150 is included in the $1997 price of all our stroker kits. If you want any of them unbalanced, just subtract $150 from the price. ($1997-$150 = $1847 unbalanced)
In August of last year, we balanced our 2000th big block Mopar crank. Here is a link to our balancing shop: http://440source.com/balancing.htm
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1365554
01/08/13 12:57 AM
01/08/13 12:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I bought my 4.15 kit balanced from them and checked it myself. I can check everything but the crank (my brother has a machine shop) which was sent out and checked. Everything came out good. In fact I had to buy 8 more dished pistons from them when I decided to use Indy EZ heads as I had flattop pistons at first to use with 84cc Eddy heads but I had to go to dished pistons when I used the 75cc EZ heads to keep my comp at 10.6. I checked the dished pistons also and the eng has been in my 63 for about 2 years. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 01/08/13 12:58 AM.
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: Supercuda]
#1365555
01/08/13 10:37 AM
01/08/13 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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See, I can be diplomatic.
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1365556
01/08/13 10:39 AM
01/08/13 10:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
'What if I told you Eagle and Scat came off the same boat from the same port in Hong Kong'
That was my thought...
Composition-wise, how does 440 Source differ from the big shooters here, domestically???
What are the metallurgical differences???
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: JohnRR]
#1365557
01/08/13 11:36 AM
01/08/13 11:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Every shop these days uses a Hines computer balancer that is easy to use and very very accurate. Grinding a gram or two off new nice rods is just not done--take em out--weigh them up and go with it--a few grams is way closer than anything but the space shuttle--pistons are always close enough too.
Prove to me that a few grams one way or the other made or ruined any combo , even a modern Prostock and I will give you my house!
They may sell China parts that do need looking at but I can teach a 6th grader to do great balance work on a Hines in about 6 hours!--They are all spin and drill--Heavy metal is almost never used anymore--spin it, drill two 3/4 inch holes a half inch deep and you wind up spending more time cleanning it after than balance time--it is a no brainer to get one Nascar close. Look at your pistons and rods, if they have holes and grinding you are dealing with a shop that does more harm than good if we are talking aftermarket parts ( stock rods are a different tale) SCAT makes some of the best done right stuff out there for the average guy--the rods they sell are usually Dead On--Cranks are designed for Target bob weights and are easy to balance unless you are building a turd combo--yes..check pinfit, crank size, taper etc but then what ya gonna do? Regrind the crank? Get pins right , don't worry about the rest if it is decent close. Relax, it is not that hard. Loose is good.....tight, she no gonna work! That is the key. Most folks can't run a mic well enough to check taper in a crank--when Eagle and the rest first started years and years ago with China--it was all junk but now--we have Americans ther to mill wright it all and have shown them over the years what we expect--those parts have gotten WAY better as time has passed--Way better! Scat is the brand I love--Eagle --ehhh, Oh yes Callies is great but the price!!
Very well said.
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: 440sourcedotcom]
#1365558
01/08/13 11:43 AM
01/08/13 11:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Tell him to save his money and just have the local guy balance it and not pay the source for it ????
oh wait , let me guess , you can only buy their kits balanced ...
Nope, our kits have been available both balanced and unbalanced since day one. We charge $150 to balance, which has not increased in over 6 years. This $150 is included in the $1997 price of all our stroker kits. If you want any of them unbalanced, just subtract $150 from the price. ($1997-$150 = $1847 unbalanced)
Don't let that bother you, that's just john-boy making another totally uneducated statement. If you ignore him he usually goes away.
First hand experience ... I bought a 440Source 528" "balanced" kit. EVERYTHING was bang on except the pin fit and that's pretty standard with any set of rods. It all boils down to trust. Just 'cause a guy's local doesn't mean he's better.
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: Stanton]
#1365560
01/09/13 11:17 AM
01/09/13 11:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Tell him to save his money and just have the local guy balance it and not pay the source for it ????
oh wait , let me guess , you can only buy their kits balanced ...
Nope, our kits have been available both balanced and unbalanced since day one. We charge $150 to balance, which has not increased in over 6 years. This $150 is included in the $1997 price of all our stroker kits. If you want any of them unbalanced, just subtract $150 from the price. ($1997-$150 = $1847 unbalanced)
Don't let that bother you, that's just john-boy making another totally uneducated statement. If you ignore him he usually goes away.
First hand experience ... I bought a 440Source 528" "balanced" kit. EVERYTHING was bang on except the pin fit and that's pretty standard with any set of rods. It all boils down to trust. Just 'cause a guy's local doesn't mean he's better.
I have tried the ignoring part with you but you're still here ... 
So are you saying that you bought a balanced kit, had everything weighed to confirm weights were within tolerance, and then had the crank spun , which pretty much would have been having the assembly balanced , minus any weight matching.
Then had the crank installed in a crank grinder and had the taper checked and the indexing checked ???
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: JohnRR]
#1365561
01/09/13 12:24 PM
01/09/13 12:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
So are you saying that you bought a balanced kit, had everything weighed to confirm weights were within tolerance, and then had the crank spun , which pretty much would have been having the assembly balanced , minus any weight matching.
Then had the crank installed in a crank grinder and had the taper checked and the indexing checked ???
A very good friend owns the machine shop and we frequently trade favors so I asked him to check the balance - of which I did most of the work. All the piston and rod weights were checked and the crank spun. The final balance was within 1/2 gram. The crank was mic'd to check taper. Index was checked with a degree wheel when we did the trial fit. No problems found.
If you're going to knock a product, you should have first-hand experience. If you want to participate in the discussion at least have the courtesy to keep your comments neutral. There are some VERY experienced engine builders on here who have had NO issues with 440Source stuff but for every one of those there are three bozo's posting hearsay!
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: Stanton]
#1365562
01/09/13 01:35 PM
01/09/13 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
So are you saying that you bought a balanced kit, had everything weighed to confirm weights were within tolerance, and then had the crank spun , which pretty much would have been having the assembly balanced , minus any weight matching.
Then had the crank installed in a crank grinder and had the taper checked and the indexing checked ???
A very good friend owns the machine shop and we frequently trade favors so I asked him to check the balance - of which I did most of the work. All the piston and rod weights were checked and the crank spun. The final balance was within 1/2 gram. The crank was mic'd to check taper. Index was checked with a degree wheel when we did the trial fit. No problems found.
If you're going to knock a product, you should have first-hand experience. If you want to participate in the discussion at least have the courtesy to keep your comments neutral. There are some VERY experienced engine builders on here who have had NO issues with 440Source stuff but for every one of those there are three bozo's posting hearsay!
I'm happy that the parts worked out for you ...
No where in this thread did I knock the product .... but everyone knows there is no love loss between myself and the condescending [censored] that is/was the owner ... I suggested to the OP that he save a potential headache and just have it done locally so he knows that it is correct.
I have received emails from members with their tails that are afraid to post them because of the bozos sword swallowers.
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Re: 440 source stroker kit/balancing quality
[Re: dogdays]
#1365564
01/09/13 04:56 PM
01/09/13 04:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,867
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
have it done locally so he knows that it is correct.
And again I'll ask ... what ensures the local guy is correct ?? If its wrong, are you going to bad mouth him on here - where nobody has heard of him or gives a damn? And would he care? If your motor blows will he repair or replace it or blame it on you for any number of reasons?
If you bought an assembly from Ray Barton, Muscle Motors, or any other Mopar specialist, would you decline balancing in order to have it done locally by some yokel that builds 20 chevys or fords to every Mopar that comes through the door ?!?!? 440Source ONLY do big block Mopars and they do them in-house. To me, that's worth something. Sorry, "local" is no guaranty of quality !!
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