Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Guitar Jones] #1364454
01/05/13 01:30 PM
01/05/13 01:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

That #2 main bearing lost it's form due to overheating probably from lack of oil judging from the photos.




Heat caused the bearings to loose the crush... it could
be the crank wasnt straight being that its the one
set... but there was dirt in there and it happened
on the first fire up

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: StealthWedge67] #1364455
01/05/13 02:01 PM
01/05/13 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
master
jbc426  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
What the experts above said, and don't forget to clean your rocker shafts out with the brushes too.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Bad340fish] #1364456
01/05/13 02:18 PM
01/05/13 02:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
master
Dodgem  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Quote:

Quote:

A guy that works in my garage behind the house did the same thing!




Love it, that guy screws my stuff up sometimes also lol






You know what I've learned from my mistakes???

It's that I maker lots of mistakes!

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Bad340fish] #1364457
01/05/13 02:40 PM
01/05/13 02:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
S
StealthWedge67 Offline OP
master
StealthWedge67  Offline OP
master
S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
Quote:

Quote:

A guy that works in my garage behind the house did the same thing!




Love it, that guy screws my stuff up sometimes also lol




I'm pretty sure thats the same guy that is responsible for this mess as well!


LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: StealthWedge67] #1364458
01/05/13 02:52 PM
01/05/13 02:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor Offline
master
VernMotor  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
Well we all learn from our mistakes. as a teenager my first motor I nick the crank. would not turn over ! and 20 years ago I did a motor and did't get the crank holes clean I thought the machinist clean it when he was done.never assume . end'ed up with the same mess.

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: VernMotor] #1364459
01/05/13 09:31 PM
01/05/13 09:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
340B5 Offline
pro stock
340B5  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
I still remember in the engine building class; the instructor said "clean it, and then clean it again and then when you're done, clean it again.


Yeah, it's got a smallblock.
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Performance Only] #1364460
01/05/13 09:41 PM
01/05/13 09:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
master
Sport440  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Quote:

There's certainly a lot of trash in the bearings, but I think some of you are really overlooking the obvious cause of failure. Take a good close look at the wear pattern on those mains and think about it.





Okay,

Boy , I see lots of stuff.

1. Lots of trash in the oil.
2. Uneven wear patterns.
3. Wear at the parting lines.
4. Heat build up burns from lack of oil.
5. Apparent crank contact on all bearings.

Those are the symptems that I see, so what do they mean.

My guess.

Combined issues,

trash in the oil
main bearing bores out of round
bearing clearences to tight
lack of oil flow at some point
maybe poor assembly with grit on back of bearings
any or all of the above

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Sport440] #1364461
01/05/13 10:09 PM
01/05/13 10:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
E
emarine01 Offline
master
emarine01  Offline
master
E

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
I would just throw the crank back in the block < and run the snot outa it >... Just kidding... drop it back in and dial O the mains and see whats up

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: emarine01] #1364462
01/05/13 10:13 PM
01/05/13 10:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
E
emarine01 Offline
master
emarine01  Offline
master
E

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
Its hard to tell from the pics but I would measure for taper also...

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Sport440] #1364463
01/05/13 10:19 PM
01/05/13 10:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
P
Performance Only Offline
top fuel
Performance Only  Offline
top fuel
P

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Quote:

Quote:

There's certainly a lot of trash in the bearings, but I think some of you are really overlooking the obvious cause of failure. Take a good close look at the wear pattern on those mains and think about it.





Okay,

Boy , I see lots of stuff.

1. Lots of trash in the oil.
2. Uneven wear patterns.
3. Wear at the parting lines.
4. Heat build up burns from lack of oil.
5. Apparent crank contact on all bearings.

Those are the symptems that I see, so what do they mean.

My guess.

Combined issues,

trash in the oil
main bearing bores out of round
bearing clearences to tight
lack of oil flow at some point
maybe poor assembly with grit on back of bearings
any or all of the above




Most everybody just assumes it's a lack of oil. It may or not be. Take a look at the wear pattern on the mains all the way up to the parting line. given that there's at least .003" of ecentricity built into the bearings, that tells me right away there was insufficiant oil clearance. A good portion of the trash may have very well come from the bearings. I'll say this also, when a machinist finishes working on your stuff, they typically clean the worst of the debris from it whether it be a block or a crankshaft or most anything else. They don't clean and prep it for final assembly unless you specifically ask them to do it. That type of cleaning generally comes with an additional charge. It's up to the person assembling the engine to make sure everything is spotless and ready to go.
When you see a bearing into the copper it was either starved for oil or had no oil clearance to start with. Since the rod bearings don't seem to be into the copper, my guess goes back to lack of oil clearance on the mains. It's pretty obvious the heat on that one bearing caused it to lose its temper and it wouldn't surprise me to see a slightly bent crank and signs of bluing as well.
The block needs to be closely inspected and probably align honed or bored again. (I prefer boring over honing)
Just because a block is align-honed and the crank was ground does not mean oil clearance is automatically okay, nothing could be further from the truth, actually.
I have teo engines in the shop right now that look alot like the OP's. One was built by a local machine shop with less than 5000 miles on it and the other by the owner with ZERO miles on it, just cam break in time.
My best advice would be to take nothing for granted when it comes time to put it back together. Enlist the help of a competant machinist to cage the bearings and measure, or at the very least, someone with the right tools and the experience necessary to do the job right. You can't have any engine part too clean, so when you think you got it spotless, clean it again.
Best of luck.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: StealthWedge67] #1364464
01/05/13 10:52 PM
01/05/13 10:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
D
dennismopar73 Offline
top fuel
dennismopar73  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
Last time seen anything like that, I wore down couple lobes down on a cam??

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Performance Only] #1364465
01/05/13 10:58 PM
01/05/13 10:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
S
StealthWedge67 Offline OP
master
StealthWedge67  Offline OP
master
S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
Thanks for all the help in understanding this, guys. I would maintain that if exessive crud got into the bearings, it came from inside the oil galleys, as I did not clean them upon assembly. I did, however make sure that all surfaces were clean, clean, clean. I may have missed something, but I am pretty confident about the cleanliness of my assembly (outside of the oil galleys). The main bearing clearances were measured at .0018 - .0022 with plastiguage. This jived with what the machinist told me he worked to, which was .002. I realize this is a little tight for a race motor, but well within specs for a street motor. It did spin freely by hand on the snout upon install.

In an effort to make sure I check every detail this time, I just purchased some tools online. I have a bore guage indicator, and a set of micrometers on the way. I already have a dial indicator with a magnetic base and a bridge base. I should be tooled up to check every detail this time.

Last edited by StealthWedge67; 01/05/13 11:42 PM.

LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: StealthWedge67] #1364466
01/05/13 11:01 PM
01/05/13 11:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
C
CHAPPER Offline
master
CHAPPER  Offline
master
C

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
Look on the bright side,,at least nobody blamed the 440 Source parts!!


If you like drag racing, support your local track.
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: StealthWedge67] #1364467
01/05/13 11:13 PM
01/05/13 11:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,214
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,214
Bend,OR USA
On bearing and piston to cylinder wall clearances, looser is always better than a little to tight I like and use .003+ on th rods and mains


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: Cab_Burge] #1364468
01/06/13 12:43 AM
01/06/13 12:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 40
Washington
S
SuperStock68Dart Offline
member
SuperStock68Dart  Offline
member
S

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 40
Washington

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: SuperStock68Dart] #1364469
01/06/13 01:40 AM
01/06/13 01:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
Just glad to see you found it before it got worse and did any more damage. Ron

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: 383man] #1364470
01/06/13 02:24 AM
01/06/13 02:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
S
StealthWedge67 Offline OP
master
StealthWedge67  Offline OP
master
S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
Quote:

Just glad to see you found it before it got worse and did any more damage. Ron




Me too, Ron! I may be slow, but I'm learning. I'm very glad I heeded my own better judgement and tore into it when I felt something wasn't right.


LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: StealthWedge67] #1364471
01/06/13 04:31 AM
01/06/13 04:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
Quote:

Quote:

Just glad to see you found it before it got worse and did any more damage. Ron




Me too, Ron! I may be slow, but I'm learning. I'm very glad I heeded my own better judgement and tore into it when I felt something wasn't right.





It is also a good feeling when you find and repair your problems yourself. And its even more rewarding when its with a super fine Mopar like yours. Ron

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: StealthWedge67] #1364472
01/12/13 04:01 AM
01/12/13 04:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 26
North Carolina
southernman Offline
member
southernman  Offline
member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 26
North Carolina
67, sorry to hear about the bottom end failure, but after looking at the pictures you posted, I'd put my money on a bent crank. When the converter ballooned, driving the flex plate bolts into the back of the block, the shock load was transferred through the crank. Resizing the crank to fit the 400 block may have enabled such damage.

As I look at number 4 main (and yes, I realize unmodified oiling can show accelerated wear at this journal - but rarely after just 5K miles is assembled correctly, you can also detect excessive wear in the number 4 journal - relative to the rest. I'd be willing to bet it bent the crank. I don't see anything that suggests a problem with oiling. I think it's the byproduct of a catastrophic converter failure. Just my SWAG, and I may be wrong, but I'd sure like to know how it checks out.

Southernman

Re: Dodged a bullet; vibration found - not good (w/ pics) [Re: southernman] #1364473
01/12/13 11:27 PM
01/12/13 11:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
S
StealthWedge67 Offline OP
master
StealthWedge67  Offline OP
master
S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
The crank is going to the machine shop Monday where I'll specify it to be checked for straight and magnafluxed. If it checks out okay, I'll have it refinished and then re-assemble. If it has issues, I'll start from scratch, perhaps look at a "source" crank this time.


LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1