|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1345602
12/03/12 11:51 PM
12/03/12 11:51 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,374
Houston,Tx.
Lee446
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,374
Houston,Tx.
|
I have a thermostatically controlled cooler mounted behind the grill on my B-body Hemi. Same virtually instant pressure as before.
Last edited by Lee446; 12/03/12 11:52 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: Crizila]
#1345605
12/04/12 09:49 PM
12/04/12 09:49 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
TrWaters
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
|
 Any answers to my actual question will be appreciated, which was not "do I need an oil cooler?". Will there be a drainback problem with using a high mounted oil cooler? Thanks.
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: ahy]
#1345611
12/05/12 12:11 PM
12/05/12 12:11 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
Quote:
Oil coolers are usually mounted in front of the Rad... above oil pan height almost always. I don't see how "drainback" would be an (added) problem. The rest of the engine is above oil pan height also.
In my experience, they all drain back over time, check valves or not - including the factory installed units. It just amounts to a longer time before oil pressure comes up. Is that bad? Well, it aint good, and a poor trade off if you don't need to go there. Obviously, stock motors with lower compression and tighter clearances would suffer less than the other way around. My tow vehicle has one. Good application there, especially where I live - plus it doesn't sit for long periods of time between start ups. My race car ( with a filled block ) does not - and doesn't need one. If the OP KNOWS he is running outside (hotter) what his oil temp range should be, he needs one. Otherwise, he don't. IMO,in many cases they are installed unnecessarily. I was going to install one on my race car, but decided to install an oil temp gauge first, just to see where I was at. Good move on my part ( for a change  ). I was well within the oil temp parameters for the oil I am using.
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: Crizila]
#1345612
12/05/12 12:14 PM
12/05/12 12:14 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
|
I would do everything I could to prevent oil starvation on startup since that's where a ton of wear occurs.
Has anyone ever seen or used those devices that stores up some oil pressure, so that when you start the car, you can release that into the system for a shot of oil? I always wanted to use one of those.
Having said that, on any oil cooler, it's a great idea to use a thermostat. Same on a trans cooler (at least for street duty)
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: TrWaters]
#1345614
12/11/12 02:55 PM
12/11/12 02:55 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
|
For what it's worth, the factory mopar oil coolers were mounted in front of the radiator, at about center-block level. They are fed from the upper oil gallery, and where it came out of the block, there's a factory mopar checkvalve for anti-drain back. As long as you do something like that, you're at least as good as factory.
If you want that part number, I can get it for you. can probably still find them. I'm sure they are around as typical race parts, too.
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: VincentVega]
#1345615
12/11/12 05:37 PM
12/11/12 05:37 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
|
Quote:
For what it's worth, the factory mopar oil coolers were mounted in front of the radiator, at about center-block level. They are fed from the upper oil gallery, and where it came out of the block, there's a factory mopar checkvalve for anti-drain back. As long as you do something like that, you're at least as good as factory.
If you want that part number, I can get it for you. can probably still find them. I'm sure they are around as typical race parts, too.
I think mopar did more than just that for the stock oil cooler package.
my stock oil cooler from the 88 cop car was set up this way. full pressure feed to the cooler from the oil sender hole on the SB and back to the hollow fuel pump bolt to oil t-chain and return oil to the pan.
had timed oiling to the rockers on #2 & #4 cam journal.
#1 cam bearing had full time oiling groove to #1 main bearing.
#1,2,3,4,5 main bearings were full groove for better supply to oil rod bearings. standerd volume oil pump.
no check valve on mine  , and I have found the bearings speced like this on at least 3 cop engines I have torn down. longevity was the goal on a stock oil cooler package.
the anti drainback valve on the oil filter should hold most of the prime on the pump side.IMO.
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1345616
12/11/12 06:29 PM
12/11/12 06:29 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
|
I'm looking at the check valve in the parts catalog for R/W body. Both big block and 360 uses it. The preceding page has H/F/N/G oil cooler w/ E58 small block engine, and you're right, no check valve. The implementation is basically the same except for that, fed via the upper gallery in the back, to a return in the fuel pump bolt.
If anyone wants it, the checkvalve PN is 2264514 (an old number).
A search comes up with this description: "Disc, oil pressure relief valve." At this point I'm wondering if it uses a stiff opening spring and closes off flow in the event of low pressure (to prevent starvation). Mine is around somewhere, I wish I could find it to take a look. I would love to know exactly what they were doing with it. I'd almost bet money it's just a simple check valve, but it's hard to find descriptions of minutiae like this
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: VincentVega]
#1345620
12/12/12 12:48 PM
12/12/12 12:48 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
|
Quote:
Welp, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And that's often! 
The E58 on the Diplomat body does use the oil "check valve", it's just mounted on the cooler instead of at the back of the block like on the B body. I must have been really tired yesterday to miss that!
I stand corrected as well. I just looked and confirmed that mine indeed has that check valve at the cooler. 
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1345621
12/12/12 01:28 PM
12/12/12 01:28 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
|
I've parted out cop diplomats, and I can recall looking at the oil cooler and thinking "what the hell is this thing on it?" It's funny how sometimes it takes years to piece things together. now I know.
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
|
|
|
Re: Engine Oil Cooler
[Re: Crizila]
#1345623
12/12/12 01:55 PM
12/12/12 01:55 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
VincentVega
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,106
Northeast
|
You're right.
Although on a big block, I think the problem is the worst of all. There's a lot of residual heat in all that cast iron, and it takes a LONG time to cool down. So if you drive like a cop, and then immediately shut down, it just bakes. And like I said, with a bigger, heavier engine, the problem is worse.
My 78 cop car (400) wasn't too dirty when I took it down. I have a 77 cop car (also 400), that looked like the canadian oil sands under the valve-covers. Obviously that car was beat hard and probably never allowed to cool before shut down. Needless to say, they both had the factory oil coolers.
Turbocharged cars also have this problem, although the better ones will continue to pump oil after shut down - sometimes by means of a turbo timer.
That's also a good observation about the orifice size. If I'm not mistaken, the return hole through the fuel pump bolt is rather small, maybe a 1/16" or 3/32" by memory. It gets the job done for factory HP levels though, and something bigger would start to compromise pressure, I'm sure.
Personally I need to figure out something for my 500" stroker, and I'd like to keep it looking as stock as possible. I plan to route upper head oiling through the rear of the block to save main and cam oiling, so I will already be back there with plumbing. Also want a thermostatic control so it doesn't keep the oil too cool. An engineering challenge
Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
|
|
|
|
|
,,MAYBE you can play here awhile.!! 
- not a lot of flow and lines everywhere. I believe the check valve was ball/spring type. No problem but the orifice was pretty small. Really don't think you want any part of one on your car - IMO. BTW, oil back then wasn't anywhere near as good ( regarding heat issues ) as it is today - albit lacking zinc. "Coked" up a few squad motors in the late 70's ( small block Fords ) that didn't have coolers on them. 