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Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? #1343580
11/30/12 06:17 PM
11/30/12 06:17 PM
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East Coast, NJ
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fig426 Offline OP
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I've been researching, researching, and researching. It seems that with the solid flat tappet, I was always concerned about losing a lobe due to the current oils, even though I put in plenty of additives. So since I have my engine apart, I've been thinking solid roller. But from what I read about that, is, I'll be trading my concern for losing a lobe with a concern for losing a roller. So where do I go with this? I had no problems with my solid flat tappets with about 50 runs on it, although it was only .630 lift, shifting at 6300, through the traps at around 6800, if my tach is accurate. 10.96 @ 124mph.

It's the 528" hemi that I dropped the valve in over the summer. I've gone up to 11.3:1 compression, will be going aluminum heads. 3800 stall footbrake 727. 430 gears. 29.5 tire. 4000lbs. 2 750's on an open plenum intake. 2 1/8 supercomps through 3.5" aero chambers.


Chris from New Jersey
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343581
11/30/12 06:23 PM
11/30/12 06:23 PM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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I think if I was going to spend the money on a Hemi, I'd go roller....


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Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343582
11/30/12 06:27 PM
11/30/12 06:27 PM
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There's no question. A roller cam, even all other things being equal, will have less rotating friction.

If the camshaft profile is correct, you can get a bit more power and drivability out of the same lift and duration because of the increased ramp. And, like you say, it removes the oil additives problem, and also removes the need for breaking in a cam which is always a dice roll.


Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343583
11/30/12 06:30 PM
11/30/12 06:30 PM
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If you can afford to do it with good quality part ie: Isky tool room or manly next tech spings, Isky Red Zone or Crower Sever duty lifters, then the solid roller is the way to go. They make great parts that will last a long time.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: VincentVega] #1343584
11/30/12 06:32 PM
11/30/12 06:32 PM
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East Coast, NJ
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fig426 Offline OP
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One other thing. I'm not chasing ET's here. I'm happy being an 11.0 car. Although hitting 10.96 for the 1st time was pretty cool.


Chris from New Jersey
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343585
11/30/12 06:47 PM
11/30/12 06:47 PM
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Chino Valley
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Don't forget the bronze gear. Has Comp Cams come out with the Int. shaft gear that will live?

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343586
11/30/12 06:55 PM
11/30/12 06:55 PM
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rickraw Online content
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u could have trouble with rollers too. loose one & u have big time damage. next time i need a cam, i'm changing to a flat tappet. run some bradpenn, break the cam in without the inner spring & u'll be fine.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: 66er] #1343587
11/30/12 07:44 PM
11/30/12 07:44 PM
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Prospect, PA
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Quote:

If you can afford to do it with good quality part ie: Isky tool room or manly next tech spings, Isky Red Zone or Crower Sever duty lifters, then the solid roller is the way to go. They make great parts that will last a long time.




.....and don't go crazy with the lobe profile.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343588
11/30/12 09:01 PM
11/30/12 09:01 PM
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New York
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Adjust the lash frequently. If one valve starts to move, pull and inspect that roller.
As little idle as possible.
Don't second-guess the mfg. on spring loads.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: polyspheric] #1343589
11/30/12 09:37 PM
11/30/12 09:37 PM
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jamesc Offline
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there are improvements you can make to flat tappet systems these days such as nitriding, face fed oiling on lifters and tool steel lifters. i know roller systems are superior but solid cams have made a lot of power over the years. i've never had any problems (having said that i now will) and for sure having a failure is a real mess but i believe if sound practices are used a solid can live a long happy life

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: jamesc] #1343590
11/30/12 10:02 PM
11/30/12 10:02 PM
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Northern Indiana
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I wouldn't spend all the money required to switch to a roller unless I was looking for every last bit of power.
As you have found out,proper lubricants and proper spring pressure will let a flat tappet live.
Its your money though.
Keith

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: polyspheric] #1343591
11/30/12 10:07 PM
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Quote:

Adjust the lash frequently. If one valve starts to move, pull and inspect that roller.
As little idle as possible.
Don't second-guess the mfg. on spring loads.



I check/adjust my lash often....
I do idle a lot cos it`s a street car that I race...
I`ve had zero problems except for TRACTION..........
Isky cam here, non agressive lobes, good tool room springs and ti retainers..........6+ years and one lifter rebuild........oh ya, stock unbushed lifter bores.............GO FOR IT!


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: jamesc] #1343592
11/30/12 10:08 PM
11/30/12 10:08 PM
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Quote:

there are improvements you can make to flat tappet systems these days such as nitriding, face fed oiling on lifters and tool steel lifters. i know roller systems are superior but solid cams have made a lot of power over the years. i've never had any problems (having said that i now will) and for sure having a failure is a real mess but i believe if sound practices are used a solid can live a long happy life




X1.. You can groove the (lower part)lifter bores with a tool from I believe CompCams. It allows a small amount of oil to leak by and spray on the cam lobes.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343593
11/30/12 10:20 PM
11/30/12 10:20 PM
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Triggerfish Offline
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Absolutely solid roller, imo. Crower, Bullit or whatever cam
maker you choose should be able to make a grind that's easy
enough on your springs. You'll get better performance & reliability.
I flattened the solid flat tappet in my hemi after only 6 mos, so
roller next time.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: Triggerfish] #1343594
11/30/12 11:28 PM
11/30/12 11:28 PM
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Quote:

I flattened the solid flat tappet in my hemi after only 6 mos, so
roller next time.





it happens but it is not typical 2¢

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: jamesc] #1343595
11/30/12 11:42 PM
11/30/12 11:42 PM
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nielsville, minn.
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quickd100 Offline
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I'd vote a solid roller all the way. I contacted Bullet Cams told them what I wanted, gave them the specs on the motor and the chassis. They delivered, I couldn't be happier with a product. Dave

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343596
12/01/12 12:10 AM
12/01/12 12:10 AM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Quote:

One other thing. I'm not chasing ET's here. I'm happy being an 11.0 car. Although hitting 10.96 for the 1st time was pretty cool.




w/ 528 ci of Hemi, I'd be mad if it didn't run 10's.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1343597
12/01/12 12:24 AM
12/01/12 12:24 AM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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I have done both with my Hemi, and its a matter of preferance. With proper break in and spring pressures & oil, a flat cam should last a long time. I am currently running a .608 lift solid mechanical and I have already had my little 484 pump gas hemi in the 10.90's.

Now I also ran roller cams for many years in my Hemi, and if you keep the lift mild, and use a good manufacturer, all will last a long time as well. As soon as you go looking for all that untapped hp with a roller, you find all the weak links in the valve train. Ask me how how I know. I went thru a lot of parts running a .750 lift roller on the street.

Its all preference..


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1343598
12/01/12 04:51 AM
12/01/12 04:51 AM
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East Coast, NJ
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fig426 Offline OP
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Good info from all you guys that actually run, or ran, each of them. On the roller side, are the $500 rollers sufficient, or do I need to be stepping up to the $1000 ones?


Chris from New Jersey
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343599
12/01/12 06:20 AM
12/01/12 06:20 AM
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Utah and Alaska
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I went with Crane 66550-16 lifters with pushrod oiling and a crane cam that is 242@.050 and .608 lift with a 112 LSA, it idles great and with my 9.5 to 1 pistons its a great street/strip combo. Contact Chase Knight at crane for a recommendation. Tim

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343600
12/01/12 02:01 PM
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Quote:

Good info from all you guys that actually run, or ran, each of them. On the roller side, are the $500 rollers sufficient, or do I need to be stepping up to the $1000 ones?


I`m running the Isky solid body lifters and I don`t remember exactly how much they were but WAY under a grand and they rebuilt em for $200.00 iirc.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: Thumperdart] #1343601
12/01/12 02:19 PM
12/01/12 02:19 PM
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Staten Island N.Y.
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Dwayne put the comp 829's in when we did the solid to roller upgrade. They have been fine so far.


PRH446
10.084 @ 135.21 mph N/A through chambered mufflers,3300lbs. Stock stroke wedge
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: Thumperdart] #1343602
12/01/12 02:28 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Good info from all you guys that actually run, or ran, each of them. On the roller side, are the $500 rollers sufficient, or do I need to be stepping up to the $1000 ones?


I`m running the Isky solid body lifters and I don`t remember exactly how much they were but WAY under a grand and they rebuilt em for $200.00 iirc.




You have not looked in awhile

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: BSB67] #1343603
12/01/12 03:14 PM
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They were way under a grand but that was 7+ years ago BUT the rebuild was $200.00 about 18 months ago...........either way, well worth in my warped mind..............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343604
12/01/12 03:24 PM
12/01/12 03:24 PM
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http://www.4secondsflat.com/Composite%20lifters.htm
no worries and keep using them over & over especially if not looking for every last bit


66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge
New New Best: 10.56 @129
68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up
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Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: oldiron] #1343605
12/01/12 10:07 PM
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fig426 Offline OP
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Quote:

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Composite%20lifters.htm
no worries and keep using them over & over especially if not looking for every last bit


. Well Greg, that just threw another wrench into things! LOL! Now I have 3 different style lifters to choose from.


Chris from New Jersey
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343606
12/02/12 04:40 PM
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No question, I'd go solid roller. Buy good stuff and there's no need to worry. I'm freshening up my hemi now after 6 years of street/strip abuse. Sent the lifters back to Isky (Red Zones) for a checkup and got a call back saying they needed nothing. Putting in a new bronze dist. gear shaft too. I check the lash twice a year. I say check b/c they never need adjusting. My cam is fairly mild, springs are 220# on the seat, 600# open.
Motor makes over 800 hp on pump gas.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343607
12/02/12 04:53 PM
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jamesc Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Composite%20lifters.htm
no worries and keep using them over & over especially if not looking for every last bit


. Well Greg, that just threw another wrench into things! LOL! Now I have 3 different style lifters to choose from.




imho those would not be considered. while they do have certain advantages and applications i would use a roller before them.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: fig426] #1343608
12/02/12 09:29 PM
12/02/12 09:29 PM
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Quote:

Good info from all you guys that actually run, or ran, each of them. On the roller side, are the $500 rollers sufficient, or do I need to be stepping up to the $1000 ones?






I have Isky Endurance Plus lifters. I paid about $400.00 seven year ago, they are now $800.00+. I wish I would have bought the Red Zone lifters, they were $700.00 back then. Now Red Zone lifters are less than $1000.00. You are buying year/miles/passes. I you think about it that way the more expensive lifters may be much cheaper in the end. I paid $400 and had them rebuilt once for $200. I could have almost bought the Red Zones and gone much longer without rebuild. The best thing about the high end lifter is the bearing are pressure fed with oil (like the crank and connecting rods), not just splash. You may be able to buy cheaper stuff and it may live a long life, but the high end part give you the insurance.

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: 66er] #1343609
12/02/12 09:50 PM
12/02/12 09:50 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Isky will never get another dime from me and I'll leave it at that.
I have a set of comp 848's that have pushrod & needle/axel oiling.Had them rebuilt at about 10k miles,they looked great when they came out but I had then rebuilt anyway just as PM.
A friend of mine just bought Crowers,they look real nice as well.


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: hemi-itis] #1343610
12/03/12 01:52 AM
12/03/12 01:52 AM
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Balt. Md
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Since I drive my 63 alot I went with a solid flat tappet and we used the EDM lifters with the small oil hole in the bottom of them. Ron

Re: Need advice: Flat tappet or roller in my hemi? [Re: 383man] #1343611
12/05/12 12:05 PM
12/05/12 12:05 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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As usual everybody is going to tell you to put a roller cam in it. Keep it simple and leave a flat tappet in it. Flat tappets have low springs pressures. Everything is happy. Have the cam nitrided.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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