Re: How much can you bore a 440
[Re: moparmafia]
#1332667
11/09/12 11:32 AM
11/09/12 11:32 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
I remember reading here a while back where someone sonic checked a bunch of blocks and the later model blocks were no different than the earlier ones. Any of them can be thin, best bet is to have it checked. The myth that the later model blocks are too thin is just that...a myth.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
Re: How much can you bore a 440
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1332668
11/09/12 11:54 AM
11/09/12 11:54 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,094 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,094
A Banana Republic near you.
|
Quote:
I remember reading here a while back where someone sonic checked a bunch of blocks and the later model blocks were no different than the earlier ones. Any of them can be thin, best bet is to have it checked. The myth that the later model blocks are too thin is just that...a myth.
AndyF did that article, the shop owner talked about above is an IDIOT and believes the MYTH that was put out by MP(LARRY SHEPARD) Tell your friend to take that engine build elsewhere if the guy is that stupid.
Any and ALL blocks should be sonic checked , Andy's article showed the later blocks actually had THICKER walls than the early blocks and the core shift didn't seem to be as bad. The later blocks are a little softer but that is not necessarily a bad thing. ANY block going over .030 should be sonic checked first , even the later MP SIAMESE bore blocks , Don't ask me how I know ...
|
|
|
Re: How much can you bore a 440
[Re: moparmafia]
#1332672
11/09/12 01:11 PM
11/09/12 01:11 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
|
Unfortunately, you may or may not be spending money you didnt need to on another block. I have sonic checked over 400 blocks, and there is one thing that is consistent. There IS NOTHING consistent! ( the GM blocks are more consistent than the Mopars for sure) The ole MP rule of only .020 overbore is garbage. I am surprised any shop anymore doesnt sonic check a block,subcribes to that theory, and randomly has a customer assume a block is junk. Thats the shops job, to check and provide information resulting from proper procedure.Sounds like he ha d ablock he wanted to get rid of???? As far as the " good" or " bad" blocks, there is no such thing. The nickel content can be different, some blocks can be harder than others etc, but the only way to know if its good is to sonic test, magnaflux and or presssure test. I recently checked one of the vaunted " 230" blocks, standard bore. Customer paid ( i think) $300 for it bare. It didnt sonic test very good. Will need a couple sleeves to do it right. You just never know. As far as core shift, yes, sometimes that rule stands true as to bore centerlines, cam tunnles, oil galleries etc. the problem is when you have a centered core, but how do you know if there is a thin spot or void in the casting on a cylinder. You will often find blocks that sonic well, then all of a sudden there are voids or bad spots, sometimes 1" round or bigger in a bore test. I actually cut an old block open once to confirm after deaming it junk. Sure enough, a very thin casting, along with rust, had thinned that area. I think the shop could have done you better with a test first, but if he's your guy, then you have to roll with him. Good luck with your build..
Last edited by CompetitionWedge; 11/09/12 07:20 PM.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
|
|
|
Re: How much can you bore a 440
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1332673
11/09/12 03:35 PM
11/09/12 03:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,094 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,094
A Banana Republic near you.
|
Quote:
Sounds like he had a block he wanted to get rid of????
With this in mind , it did cross my mind earlier , I may have jumped to soon on calling the machine shop person an Idiot ...
Was the early block sonic checked before the build on it started ???
|
|
|
Re: How much can you bore a 440
[Re: JohnRR]
#1332676
11/10/12 12:55 AM
11/10/12 12:55 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568 Ky
moparmafia
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Ky
|
Quote:
Quote:
Sounds like he had a block he wanted to get rid of????
With this in mind , it did cross my mind earlier , I may have jumped to soon on calling the machine shop person an Idiot ...
Was the early block sonic checked before the build on it started ???
The machine shop owner said it was a good block but i think it's because it was an older block and not that it was sonic checked.I told him the guy is just trying to make money off him because now he has talked my friend into a set of used cast iron indy heads to put on the block he sold him. my friend even told the owner that he is only allowed to run a stock fuel pump with a 650 single line holley but the guy said it will work.
|
|
|
Re: How much can you bore a 440
[Re: JCFcuda]
#1332678
11/10/12 10:27 AM
11/10/12 10:27 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 165 ohio
B5 GTX
member
|
member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 165
ohio
|
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm Check out the link above, very interesting. I know my uncle has a newer one bored out to .060 on a stroker. Thanks Scott
Last edited by B5 GTX; 11/10/12 01:14 PM.
|
|
|
Re: How much can you bore a 440
[Re: VernMotor]
#1332684
11/10/12 10:30 PM
11/10/12 10:30 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey
jamesc
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
|
Quote:
aluminum block wow that be nice....might be little over kill for a 550hp motor lol.. So the old age question.. how thin can you be on the thrush and non-thrush side of the cy's ?
well there are a number of variables first being how hard you're going to run it. off the top of my head i'd prefer >.150 on the thrust but don't know how hard that is to find. for a given thickness a low deck is going to be stiffer because the cylinder is shorter. i'm sure running an engine into detonation doesn't help matters any as well. side loading do to stroke/piston/rod combination there are a number of factors.
there are plenty of people with more experience that have measured and built more engines so with regards to wall thickness i can't speak from a wealth of experience as to what will live and what won't. the only one i personally dealt with that split was a lo deck 500" unfilled stroker that was being run pretty hard with alcohol injection and i have to wonder if it would have split had it been filled. the owner ended up going with a megablock.
there is also the idea of filling the block either a short or tall fill. i filled both the stock blocks i raced one short and one tall. i know people have mixed feelings about filling the block but i think if it's done correctly it can't do anything but help.
i have a UT mic but haven't shot a lot of blocks. i have a couple blocks sitting around so if i get the motivation maybe i'll shoot them for the heck of it plus i need to become better acquainted with the mic i haven't used it that often.
here's a write up that Andy did with a lot of info
http://arengineering.com/tech/sonic-checking-the-mopar-big-block/
|
|
|
|
|