|
affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
#1315456
10/05/12 12:12 AM
10/05/12 12:12 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
So I have been doing some thinking about cam setups for my current motor since it is apart again. I have been giving some thought into a solid roller setup, and I know it is definitely a price jump from the solid flat tappet stuff...I drive my car quite a bit on the street (3-4000 miles a year), and have thought about whether a solid roller would fit my application? My biggest concern is the lifters- I have seem some mention lifters from PBM, Morel, or Chet Herbert for 300 dollars and under, but on the same note have heard mention that lifters that are not HIPO oiling or don't oil the rollers constantly are no good to use on the street. So my question becomes what brands of lifters would accomplish what i am looking to do on the street? (as obviously they should work great at the track) What are the prices and features of these lifters? I know many would say just pony up the money once for the solid roller, but at this point in time, I just can't afford a set of $500+ roller lifters, plus the springs, retainers and keepers to match, and then the cam itself. If there is something out there that works for cheaper, I am all for it though. Curious to hear your opinions and experiences with this stuff 
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315457
10/05/12 12:26 AM
10/05/12 12:26 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,719
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,719
Portage,michigan
|
Honestly, running on the street and racing it( I did the same while back with pretty big roller) the last place I would try to cut is on roller lifters
I pushrods oiled and used crane ultra pro's. Super nice pieces.
Maybe others will have different thoughts, but I like doing stuff once, and not wondering
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1315460
10/05/12 07:21 AM
10/05/12 07:21 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
|
After four races my Comps were junk. Will not do that again.
Get you a set of Morrels. Bullit Cams sells them with their name on them. Crower is a good lifter also. Get the EDM option if you can.
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1315462
10/05/12 10:52 AM
10/05/12 10:52 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
Didn't Brian IMM Engines (ou812) help design a small block lifter for Comp??
Maybe you should be asking him.. 
Chris.. 
Yes I am aware of that. Brian just had a kid and told me he wasn't going to be in the shop as much. I was going to call him next week and get his opinion on this as well. I was just kinda thinking out loud with this thread to what luck others are having
I'm just wondering what the differences between the cheaper lifters and more expensive ones were as well
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: Leon441]
#1315463
10/05/12 10:54 AM
10/05/12 10:54 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
After four races my Comps were junk. Will not do that again.
Get you a set of Morrels. Bullit Cams sells them with their name on them. Crower is a good lifter also. Get the EDM option if you can.
Hey Leon what is edm? Aren't the morels the more affordable ones that don't oil as well? Or am I completely wrong?
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: rickraw]
#1315464
10/05/12 10:55 AM
10/05/12 10:55 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
same here. i went with gsp rollers. saw some members on run them, so i gave them a shot. i run a offset intake(w9"s), 760$ delivered. standard rollers maybe cheaper?? if i ever have to do it over, i'm changing to a plain solid lifter, won't have to worry about losing a roller.
Rick did you have a roller fail on you?
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315465
10/05/12 11:33 AM
10/05/12 11:33 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
|
Morels are good Solid lifters, Doug Herbert sells them very reasonably. The body seems to be a good bit longer than other brands so the pushrod winds up being shorter (i.e. stiffer for a given cross section) which should be theoretically advantageous....though less so on a 59 degree valley angle (increases the pushrod arc). I've spun my 414 to about 7200....so far.
Last edited by Streetwize; 10/05/12 11:36 AM.
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: Streetwize]
#1315467
10/05/12 12:30 PM
10/05/12 12:30 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
Morels are good Solid lifters, Doug Herbert sells them very reasonably. The body seems to be a good bit longer than other brands so the pushrod winds up being shorter (i.e. stiffer for a given cross section) which should be theoretically advantageous....though less so on a 59 degree valley angle (increases the pushrod arc). I've spun my 414 to about 7200....so far.
Wize those are the lifters I was looking at. Previous posts on here said they were reasonably priced around $300 but my question is are they sufficient for lots of street miles based on their design and oiling characteristics compared tomorro expensive lifters?
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1315468
10/05/12 12:37 PM
10/05/12 12:37 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
How fast do you plan on going that you feel the need for a roller cam? A solid cam will fill the needs for most. 
Not that fast at all really, high tens on the gas most likely. It's just that's know they make more power and the fact that they are a roller wheel instead of a flat tappet just gives me a little more price of mind. Even though I ran good oil in my other motors just because I wanted to, I never had to worry about ever losing a lobe because if a lifter ( hydraulic rollers). That said I know asolidflattappet will be fine, I was just thinking about the roller since I am in the process of changing things and now would be the ideal time
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315469
10/05/12 12:47 PM
10/05/12 12:47 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
|
I run the (#2 and #4) grooved cam journals for continuous oiling and massage the drainback channels in the heads to make sure I get plenty of drainage back to the valley. Mine's a bracket car though but I think they're fine for a reasonable spring pressure moderate RPM motor like most strokers. There may be better choices out there but these seem more than up to the job I'm throwing at them. The word I've heard about the Morel/Bullet design is they are essentially the same body as the Hydraulic Roller lifters converted to solids(which would explain the larger body/shorter pushrod), they seem to do really well.
Last edited by Streetwize; 10/05/12 12:49 PM.
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: Streetwize]
#1315470
10/05/12 12:50 PM
10/05/12 12:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,719
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,719
Portage,michigan
|
Quote:
I run the (#2 and #4) grooved cam journals for continuous oiling and massage the drainback channels in the heads to make sure I get plenty of drainage back to the valley. Mine's a bracket car though but I think they're fine for a reasonable spring pressure moderate RPM motor like most strokers. There may be better choices out there but these seem more than up to the job I'm throwing at them.
The word I've heard about the Morel/Bullet design is they are essentially the same body as the Hydraulic Roller lifters converted to solids(which would explain the larger body/shorter pushrod), they seem to do really well.
Wize...any clearancing for the tie bars, or did they drop right in?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: B3422W5]
#1315472
10/05/12 01:13 PM
10/05/12 01:13 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,028
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,028
Tulsa OK
|
I run the comp 828s in my SB. I don't have any oiling to the lifters and full time oil to the rockers. So far they have about 2500 miles on them. I won't lie though, I just got off dragweek and that was my biggest concern. For the first few hundred miles every noise I heard was a lifter wheel coming off  (in my mind)
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315473
10/05/12 01:42 PM
10/05/12 01:42 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209
New York
polyspheric
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209
New York
|
2 things to avoid with roller tappets:
Not enough spring pressure; even if you keep the RPM down don't go below the manufacturer's load
Loose valve lash.
Eventually, the axle bearings fail, and the [CRASH] as they hit the closing side and bounce is very destructive, especially at idle. This is what "rev kits" are made for.
Boffin Emeritus
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: b1dartsport]
#1315477
10/07/12 09:18 AM
10/07/12 09:18 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
Another thing is to stay away from the super quick ramp profiles on the newer cam designs, especialy if you are running it on the street. I and some of my friends have found out that some of the older Crane lobes are much easier on the valve train. So what the setup is .10 slower at the track but it lives forever. The super quick cams are made for the ET chasers and class racers. Just my
thanks for the advice on that one, it is something I have heard before, to use less aggressive lobes i.e. circle track lobes instead of very fast ones to help the valvetrain live with street life. I think its definitely a tradeoff worth doing unless you want to be changing valvetrain parts quite often
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315479
10/31/12 04:13 PM
10/31/12 04:13 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
|
MRL came up with some that he says live on the street fine.
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1315480
10/31/12 04:16 PM
10/31/12 04:16 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
MRL came up with some that he says live on the street fine.
Yea, I was actually going to mention those. They are apparently drop in, and they seem to be pressure fed oiling even on the lower end model he sells.
I tried searching on here about them, but there is nothing. Maybe they are still to new?
Im just curious though if the pressure fed oiling to the rollers is even needed. I mean, standard flat tappet stuff only gets splash oiling anyways, so why does the roller stuff need more?
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: fasthawk6]
#1315482
10/31/12 04:23 PM
10/31/12 04:23 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.
What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315483
10/31/12 04:39 PM
10/31/12 04:39 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 331
Cincinnati Oh
fasthawk6
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 331
Cincinnati Oh
|
Quote:
Quote:
Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.
What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?
Indy's 1.6. Bullet cam 668 lift which made it around 700 with close to 700 open psi and 270 or 280 on the seat.When i went to the t&d's i went back to 1.5's for a little less valvetrain stress. K950 springs.
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315484
10/31/12 04:57 PM
10/31/12 04:57 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
|
Quote:
Quote:
How fast do you plan on going that you feel the need for a roller cam? A solid cam will fill the needs for most.
Not that fast at all really, high tens on the gas most likely. It's just that's know they make more power and the fact that they are a roller wheel instead of a flat tappet just gives me a little more price of mind. Even though I ran good oil in my other motors just because I wanted to, I never had to worry about ever losing a lobe because if a lifter ( hydraulic rollers). That said I know asolidflattappet will be fine
I considered a solid roller when I did my 408 but decided to go with a edm flat solid instead. It's been in the high 6.50s on pump 93 and has ran three years with only one lashing a year.
It looks like you're trading your worry about losing a lobe for worrying about losing a roller wheel .
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: fasthawk6]
#1315485
10/31/12 09:30 PM
10/31/12 09:30 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.
What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?
Indy's 1.6. Bullet cam 668 lift which made it around 700 with close to 700 open psi and 270 or 280 on the seat.When i went to the t&d's i went back to 1.5's for a little less valvetrain stress. K950 springs.
Damn, those valve springs your using aren't cheap man  Wasn't thinking valvesprings for a solid roller deal would cost that much.
As for my rockers, I thought the Hughes were supposed to be a good rocker and handle some serious stuff since Hughes totes them as being just as good as the high end stuff 
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: justinp61]
#1315486
10/31/12 09:32 PM
10/31/12 09:32 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How fast do you plan on going that you feel the need for a roller cam? A solid cam will fill the needs for most.
Not that fast at all really, high tens on the gas most likely. It's just that's know they make more power and the fact that they are a roller wheel instead of a flat tappet just gives me a little more price of mind. Even though I ran good oil in my other motors just because I wanted to, I never had to worry about ever losing a lobe because if a lifter ( hydraulic rollers). That said I know asolidflattappet will be fine
I considered a solid roller when I did my 408 but decided to go with a edm flat solid instead. It's been in the high 6.50s on pump 93 and has ran three years with only one lashing a year.
It looks like you're trading your worry about losing a lobe for worrying about losing a roller wheel .
Well dammit, when you put it like that  lol
Have to price out the whole combination, but was considering the solid roller deal since I found a cam for a decent price, and a set of lifters as well (albeit morel, which I believe are the non pressure fed oiling ones).
I know a solid flat tappet can make the power, just thought I would try to make more with the solid roller since im really going to push this thing to the limits is all 
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lif
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1315488
11/01/12 01:35 PM
11/01/12 01:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
|
Although I have nothing useful to add to this post, I'll bump since I'm in the same quandry as you at this point. Brians litters are 600 dollars, and I'm interested in hearing more about the Herbert/Morel/Bullet options.. Also who is MRL? What info do you have on them? I've never heard of those.
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
|
|
|
Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters
[Re: mshred]
#1315490
11/01/12 05:14 PM
11/01/12 05:14 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 331
Cincinnati Oh
fasthawk6
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 331
Cincinnati Oh
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.
What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?
Indy's 1.6. Bullet cam 668 lift which made it around 700 with close to 700 open psi and 270 or 280 on the seat.When i went to the t&d's i went back to 1.5's for a little less valvetrain stress. K950 springs.
Damn, those valve springs your using aren't cheap man Wasn't thinking valvesprings for a solid roller deal would cost that much.
As for my rockers, I thought the Hughes were supposed to be a good rocker and handle some serious stuff since Hughes totes them as being just as good as the high end stuff
I do not know about the hughs stuff.When i was having promblems i got a hold of Ryan from Shadydell speed shop and told him what i had and he lead me in that direction.I was tired of breaking stuff and wanted something that last.Also you will have to get a better pushrod due to the spring pressure , mine are 5/16 .080 manton for another $230 or so dollars.
Cam 300-350
springs 250-300
lifters 400-600
pushrode 200-250
T&D shaft mount rockers 1200.
That should give you a idea on stuff,Also someone makes a roller lifter that DO NOT have the needdle bearings in them.I think it is either bullet/moral or isky but they are alittle more money but may be worth the peice of mind.
|
|
|
|
|
