affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters

Posted By: mshred

affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 04:12 AM

So I have been doing some thinking about cam setups for my current motor since it is apart again. I have been giving some thought into a solid roller setup, and I know it is definitely a price jump from the solid flat tappet stuff...I drive my car quite a bit on the street (3-4000 miles a year), and have thought about whether a solid roller would fit my application? My biggest concern is the lifters- I have seem some mention lifters from PBM, Morel, or Chet Herbert for 300 dollars and under, but on the same note have heard mention that lifters that are not HIPO oiling or don't oil the rollers constantly are no good to use on the street.

So my question becomes what brands of lifters would accomplish what i am looking to do on the street? (as obviously they should work great at the track) What are the prices and features of these lifters?

I know many would say just pony up the money once for the solid roller, but at this point in time, I just can't afford a set of $500+ roller lifters, plus the springs, retainers and keepers to match, and then the cam itself. If there is something out there that works for cheaper, I am all for it though.

Curious to hear your opinions and experiences with this stuff

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 04:26 AM

Honestly, running on the street and racing it( I did the same while back with pretty big roller) the last place I would try to cut is on roller lifters
I pushrods oiled and used crane ultra pro's. Super nice pieces.
Maybe others will have different thoughts, but I like doing stuff once, and not wondering

Posted By: rickraw

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 07:11 AM

same here. i went with gsp rollers. saw some members on run them, so i gave them a shot. i run a offset intake(w9"s), 760$ delivered. standard rollers maybe cheaper?? if i ever have to do it over, i'm changing to a plain solid lifter, won't have to worry about losing a roller.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 07:23 AM

Didn't Brian IMM Engines (ou812) help design a small block lifter for Comp??

Maybe you should be asking him..

Chris..

Posted By: Leon441

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 11:21 AM

After four races my Comps were junk. Will not do that again.

Get you a set of Morrels. Bullit Cams sells them with their name on them. Crower is a good lifter also. Get the EDM option if you can.

Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 01:00 PM

if your budget wont allow what you want to d o - just take your time and save up - it always costs less to do it right the first time.

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 02:52 PM

Quote:

Didn't Brian IMM Engines (ou812) help design a small block lifter for Comp??

Maybe you should be asking him..

Chris..

Yes I am aware of that. Brian just had a kid and told me he wasn't going to be in the shop as much. I was going to call him next week and get his opinion on this as well. I was just kinda thinking out loud with this thread to what luck others are having

I'm just wondering what the differences between the cheaper lifters and more expensive ones were as well

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 02:54 PM

Quote:

After four races my Comps were junk. Will not do that again.

Get you a set of Morrels. Bullit Cams sells them with their name on them. Crower is a good lifter also. Get the EDM option if you can.

Hey Leon what is edm? Aren't the morels the more affordable ones that don't oil as well? Or am I completely wrong?

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 02:55 PM

Quote:

same here. i went with gsp rollers. saw some members on run them, so i gave them a shot. i run a offset intake(w9"s), 760$ delivered. standard rollers maybe cheaper?? if i ever have to do it over, i'm changing to a plain solid lifter, won't have to worry about losing a roller.

Rick did you have a roller fail on you?

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 03:33 PM

Morels are good Solid lifters, Doug Herbert sells them very reasonably. The body seems to be a good bit longer than other brands so the pushrod winds up being shorter (i.e. stiffer for a given cross section) which should be theoretically advantageous....though less so on a 59 degree valley angle (increases the pushrod arc). I've spun my 414 to about 7200....so far.

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Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 04:28 PM

How fast do you plan on going that you feel the need for a roller cam? A solid cam will fill the needs for most.

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 04:30 PM

Quote:

Morels are good Solid lifters, Doug Herbert sells them very reasonably. The body seems to be a good bit longer than other brands so the pushrod winds up being shorter (i.e. stiffer for a given cross section) which should be theoretically advantageous....though less so on a 59 degree valley angle (increases the pushrod arc). I've spun my 414 to about 7200....so far.

Wize those are the lifters I was looking at. Previous posts on here said they were reasonably priced around $300 but my question is are they sufficient for lots of street miles based on their design and oiling characteristics compared tomorro expensive lifters?

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 04:37 PM

Quote:

How fast do you plan on going that you feel the need for a roller cam? A solid cam will fill the needs for most.

Not that fast at all really, high tens on the gas most likely. It's just that's know they make more power and the fact that they are a roller wheel instead of a flat tappet just gives me a little more price of mind. Even though I ran good oil in my other motors just because I wanted to, I never had to worry about ever losing a lobe because if a lifter ( hydraulic rollers). That said I know asolidflattappet will be fine, I was just thinking about the roller since I am in the process of changing things and now would be the ideal time

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 04:47 PM

I run the (#2 and #4) grooved cam journals for continuous oiling and massage the drainback channels in the heads to make sure I get plenty of drainage back to the valley. Mine's a bracket car though but I think they're fine for a reasonable spring pressure moderate RPM motor like most strokers. There may be better choices out there but these seem more than up to the job I'm throwing at them.

The word I've heard about the Morel/Bullet design is they are essentially the same body as the Hydraulic Roller lifters converted to solids(which would explain the larger body/shorter pushrod), they seem to do really well.

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 04:50 PM

Quote:

I run the (#2 and #4) grooved cam journals for continuous oiling and massage the drainback channels in the heads to make sure I get plenty of drainage back to the valley. Mine's a bracket car though but I think they're fine for a reasonable spring pressure moderate RPM motor like most strokers. There may be better choices out there but these seem more than up to the job I'm throwing at them.

The word I've heard about the Morel/Bullet design is they are essentially the same body as the Hydraulic Roller lifters converted to solids(which would explain the larger body/shorter pushrod), they seem to do really well.

Wize...any clearancing for the tie bars, or did they drop right in?

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 05:11 PM

Funny you should ask....Yeah the valley needed a little massaging, since the link bar buttons are on the bottom for a SBM the dremel tool got quite a work out. I think only 2 of the 8 pairs went it without any relieving at all....nothing major though, maybe 20 minutes work total...once I mocked them up and knew where I had to hit.

but now in retrospect....the reason they tell you to put the SBM's in "upside down" is because the 59 degree valley could allow for link bar pushrod interference....that's how we know to do Solid rollers in SBM's....but with the morels the link bar is mainly shrouded by the longer lifter body (unlike the old comps) and the pushrod is up toward the top (rather than sunk down in the lifter body) so...if I had it to do again they may actually work fine 'Right side up'

Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 05:13 PM

I run the comp 828s in my SB. I don't have any oiling to the lifters and full time oil to the rockers. So far they have about 2500 miles on them. I won't lie though, I just got off dragweek and that was my biggest concern. For the first few hundred miles every noise I heard was a lifter wheel coming off

(in my mind)

Posted By: polyspheric

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/05/12 05:42 PM

2 things to avoid with roller tappets:

Not enough spring pressure; even if you keep the RPM down don't go below the manufacturer's load

Loose valve lash.
Eventually, the axle bearings fail, and the [CRASH] as they hit the closing side and bounce is very destructive, especially at idle. This is what "rev kits" are made for.

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/06/12 12:56 AM

First things first, I apologize for all my typos in my messages- thats what happens when you try to type from an itouch with fat fingers lol

There is some good advice in here, and Wize I definitely trust your experience...but does anyone else have any experience with the morrel's and street miles?

What is it about the morrel's that they are priced cheaper, and what about their oiling characteristics make them "inferior" to the higher end stuff? This is not sarcasm, just something I truly want to know....I am not going to run a 300 dollar set of lifters to know that it is POSSIBLE they may not oil well enough to live, causing catastrophic failure of them or the motor. I have heard some cam guys state they refuse to use roller lifters that don't have pressure fed oiling to the needle bearings- is that where the morrel's fall short?

Posted By: Darryls-Demon

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/06/12 02:01 AM

I have two street cars with solid roller cams and in my humble opinion there is more to making a solid roller live on the street than a good lifter.
As far as Iam concerned everything in the valve train needs to be up to suff.
If anything in the valve train flexes the lifters are going to feel it.
Also I think it is a good idea to have a tight lash cam.

Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/07/12 12:58 PM

Another thing is to stay away from the super quick ramp profiles on the newer cam designs, especialy if you are running it on the street. I and some of my friends have found out that some of the older Crane lobes are much easier on the valve train. So what the setup is .10 slower at the track but it lives forever. The super quick cams are made for the ET chasers and class racers. Just my

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/07/12 01:18 PM

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Another thing is to stay away from the super quick ramp profiles on the newer cam designs, especialy if you are running it on the street. I and some of my friends have found out that some of the older Crane lobes are much easier on the valve train. So what the setup is .10 slower at the track but it lives forever. The super quick cams are made for the ET chasers and class racers. Just my

thanks for the advice on that one, it is something I have heard before, to use less aggressive lobes i.e. circle track lobes instead of very fast ones to help the valvetrain live with street life. I think its definitely a tradeoff worth doing unless you want to be changing valvetrain parts quite often

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/31/12 07:11 PM

So other then Wize, who is running the Morel's that don't have pressure fed oiling and putting some street miles to them????

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/31/12 08:13 PM

MRL came up with some that he says live on the street fine.

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/31/12 08:16 PM

Quote:

MRL came up with some that he says live on the street fine.

Yea, I was actually going to mention those. They are apparently drop in, and they seem to be pressure fed oiling even on the lower end model he sells.

I tried searching on here about them, but there is nothing. Maybe they are still to new?

Im just curious though if the pressure fed oiling to the rollers is even needed. I mean, standard flat tappet stuff only gets splash oiling anyways, so why does the roller stuff need more?

Posted By: fasthawk6

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/31/12 08:21 PM

Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/31/12 08:23 PM

Quote:

Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.

What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?

Posted By: fasthawk6

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/31/12 08:39 PM

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Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.

What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?

Indy's 1.6. Bullet cam 668 lift which made it around 700 with close to 700 open psi and 270 or 280 on the seat.When i went to the t&d's i went back to 1.5's for a little less valvetrain stress. K950 springs.

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Posted By: justinp61

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 10/31/12 08:57 PM

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How fast do you plan on going that you feel the need for a roller cam? A solid cam will fill the needs for most.

Not that fast at all really, high tens on the gas most likely. It's just that's know they make more power and the fact that they are a roller wheel instead of a flat tappet just gives me a little more price of mind. Even though I ran good oil in my other motors just because I wanted to, I never had to worry about ever losing a lobe because if a lifter ( hydraulic rollers). That said I know asolidflattappet will be fine

I considered a solid roller when I did my 408 but decided to go with a edm flat solid instead. It's been in the high 6.50s on pump 93 and has ran three years with only one lashing a year.

It looks like you're trading your worry about losing a lobe for worrying about losing a roller wheel

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 11/01/12 01:30 AM

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Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.

What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?

Indy's 1.6. Bullet cam 668 lift which made it around 700 with close to 700 open psi and 270 or 280 on the seat.When i went to the t&d's i went back to 1.5's for a little less valvetrain stress. K950 springs.

Damn, those valve springs your using aren't cheap man

Wasn't thinking valvesprings for a solid roller deal would cost that much.

As for my rockers, I thought the Hughes were supposed to be a good rocker and handle some serious stuff since Hughes totes them as being just as good as the high end stuff

Posted By: mshred

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 11/01/12 01:32 AM

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How fast do you plan on going that you feel the need for a roller cam? A solid cam will fill the needs for most.

Not that fast at all really, high tens on the gas most likely. It's just that's know they make more power and the fact that they are a roller wheel instead of a flat tappet just gives me a little more price of mind. Even though I ran good oil in my other motors just because I wanted to, I never had to worry about ever losing a lobe because if a lifter ( hydraulic rollers). That said I know asolidflattappet will be fine

I considered a solid roller when I did my 408 but decided to go with a edm flat solid instead. It's been in the high 6.50s on pump 93 and has ran three years with only one lashing a year.

It looks like you're trading your worry about losing a lobe for worrying about losing a roller wheel .

Well dammit, when you put it like that

lol

Have to price out the whole combination, but was considering the solid roller deal since I found a cam for a decent price, and a set of lifters as well (albeit morel, which I believe are the non pressure fed oiling ones).

I know a solid flat tappet can make the power, just thought I would try to make more with the solid roller since im really going to push this thing to the limits is all

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 11/01/12 03:24 PM

I also got mine from Brian and they fit well, and have been good so far.

Posted By: topfueldart

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lif - 11/01/12 05:35 PM

Although I have nothing useful to add to this post, I'll bump since I'm in the same quandry as you at this point. Brians litters are 600 dollars, and I'm interested in hearing more about the Herbert/Morel/Bullet options.. Also who is MRL? What info do you have on them? I've never heard of those.

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lif - 11/01/12 05:53 PM

http://www.mrlperformance.com/

Posted By: fasthawk6

Re: affordable & streetable smallblock solid roller lifters - 11/01/12 09:14 PM

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Remember when you go roller you have to also think about spring pressure and rocker arms breaking. I had to go to t&ds after 3 sets of pushrods due to lack of oiling and 2 broken rocker arms.

What did you have before? I am running Hughes 1.6 ratio right now, and thought they should be okay?

Indy's 1.6. Bullet cam 668 lift which made it around 700 with close to 700 open psi and 270 or 280 on the seat.When i went to the t&d's i went back to 1.5's for a little less valvetrain stress. K950 springs.

Damn, those valve springs your using aren't cheap man Wasn't thinking valvesprings for a solid roller deal would cost that much.

As for my rockers, I thought the Hughes were supposed to be a good rocker and handle some serious stuff since Hughes totes them as being just as good as the high end stuff

I do not know about the hughs stuff.When i was having promblems i got a hold of Ryan from Shadydell speed shop and told him what i had and he lead me in that direction.I was tired of breaking stuff and wanted something that last.Also you will have to get a better pushrod due to the spring pressure , mine are 5/16 .080 manton for another $230 or so dollars.

Cam 300-350
springs 250-300
lifters 400-600
pushrode 200-250
T&D shaft mount rockers 1200.
That should give you a idea on stuff,Also someone makes a roller lifter that DO NOT have the needdle bearings in them.I think it is either bullet/moral or isky but they are alittle more money but may be worth the peice of mind.

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