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Re: Break in oil
[Re: terzmo]
#1282040
08/09/12 06:25 PM
08/09/12 06:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Personally I wouldnt use a syn blend oil on breakin.
Alot of guys do it without issues, but....
Id use Rotella and a bottle of Comp Cams or similar additive.
I go a little over board with my cam break ins. A local machine shop has oil that they had a local refinery formulate for them. It is chock full of zinc. I use their oil, and 2 bottles of SLOB.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: terzmo]
#1282042
08/09/12 06:29 PM
08/09/12 06:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
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Any oil with ZPPD there are only four. Joe Gibbs or Valvoline are the most common.
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: terzmo]
#1282043
08/09/12 06:32 PM
08/09/12 06:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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synthetic is a no no for breakin unless the fact that it is a diesel syn and or a part syn blend makes it OK to use for breakin but I'd be doubtful but I'm not an oil guy & am going by what I know so far. I'd drain it & go with a proven performer like Bradd Penn & other proven brands. You've went to far to take a risk now  & after it's broken in & running strong you will have forgotten about the little bit of extra time/money it took to rectify this
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1282046
08/09/12 07:59 PM
08/09/12 07:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
Bradd Penn
Cept Penn is a semisyn...
I called Total Seal and they told me no syn or semisyn for at least 800 miles..so 
Plenty of race motors come out of the box with Penn.
I was talking to a local machinist the other day he uses Mobil full syn on the skirts, rings when putting motors together..  
So, flip, IDK. Id still play it safe and go with a full dino oil...
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1282047
08/09/12 08:03 PM
08/09/12 08:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
it's my understanding that diesel oils have the right amount of zinc in them. since i don't know that to be 100% true with a synthetic blend oil i would just get 2 bottles of Lucas breakin additive and one to the break in oil and the other after you change it. most auto parts stores have Lucas.
As far as the diesel oil, they or may not have enough zinc...If you have moderate to high spring pressure, probably not. Id still add a bottle of Comp, EOS, etc.
I know nothing about the Lucas break in oil. Id like to see a lab report on it. If its like the rest of the Lucas stuff...run...
EDIT. Found some info on the Lucas break in oil, looks to be good stuff.
Last edited by Von; 08/09/12 08:08 PM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: Von]
#1282049
08/09/12 09:13 PM
08/09/12 09:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
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Quote:
Quote:
it's my understanding that diesel oils have the right amount of zinc in them. since i don't know that to be 100% true with a synthetic blend oil i would just get 2 bottles of Lucas breakin additive and one to the break in oil and the other after you change it. most auto parts stores have Lucas.
As far as the diesel oil, they or may not have enough zinc...If you have moderate to high spring pressure, probably not. Id still add a bottle of Comp, EOS, etc.
I know nothing about the Lucas break in oil. Id like to see a lab report on it. If its like the rest of the Lucas stuff...run...
EDIT. Found some info on the Lucas break in oil, looks to be good stuff.
No zinc in any of the deisel oils since they put the cats on them since the zinc plugs them up.
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: moparpollack]
#1282051
08/10/12 10:23 AM
08/10/12 10:23 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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[quote
No zinc in any of the deisel oils since they put the cats on them since the zinc plugs them up.
What is your definition of "No zinc"
I just looked at some recent VOAs, DelVac, Rotella, Napa 15-40 all show over 1200ppm of Zinc. Not what I would call "No zinc"
The stuff doesnt have 1600 or so like it did 5 years ago, but considerably better than a SL-SN oil...
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: Von]
#1282052
08/10/12 10:28 AM
08/10/12 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
[quote
No zinc in any of the deisel oils since they put the cats on them since the zinc plugs them up.
What is your definition of "No zinc"
I just looked at some recent VOAs, DelVac, Rotella, Napa 15-40 all show over 1200ppm of Zinc. Not what I would call "No zinc"
The stuff doesnt have 1600 or so like it did 5 years ago, but considerably better than a SL-SN oil...
You want Zinc!! 
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: elmor]
#1282053
08/10/12 11:34 AM
08/10/12 11:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
Prince_Valiant
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
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But since you now know that oil needs zinc (zddp)for flat-tappet cams, especially during the initial break-in, keep in mind you can have too much in the oil too...so don't go overboard adding excess oil supplements to get the zinc levels up there. Too much zinc can be equally harmful.
Most decent speed shops will stock a zinc (ZDDP) additive that specifies how much should be mixed w/ what types/amount of oil....whether it is GM EOS or something similar.
I'd drain the oil, run a heavier wt diesel oil w/ the a ZDDP additive...makeing sure to prime it good and quickly before initial start up. Good luck!
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express - 360 rwhp, 13.2 @ 103mph
1968 Coronet: 318, 2.76, 15.2 @ 92mph! (SOLD)
1976 Valiant: 360, 3.90, 12.90 @ 106 (SOLD)
1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: elmor]
#1282056
08/10/12 12:53 PM
08/10/12 12:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Do yourself a favor and get some Brad Penn break in and be done with it. It works, has a crude oil base stock, and will not be any problem whatsoever being a semi synthetic. You dont NEED a dino oil to break an engine in...the internet can be a dangerous place.... 
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: moparpollack]
#1282058
08/10/12 03:22 PM
08/10/12 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
Junky
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
it's my understanding that diesel oils have the right amount of zinc in them. since i don't know that to be 100% true with a synthetic blend oil i would just get 2 bottles of Lucas breakin additive and one to the break in oil and the other after you change it. most auto parts stores have Lucas.
As far as the diesel oil, they or may not have enough zinc...If you have moderate to high spring pressure, probably not. Id still add a bottle of Comp, EOS, etc.
I know nothing about the Lucas break in oil. Id like to see a lab report on it. If its like the rest of the Lucas stuff...run...
EDIT. Found some info on the Lucas break in oil, looks to be good stuff.
No zinc in any of the deisel oils since they put the cats on them since the zinc plugs them up.
Current heavy duty (diesel) oil has about 1200 ppm zinc...some a bit more, some a bit less. That amount is good for a stock engine. Modified engines need more due to spring pressures and such. Get your facts straight.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: dogdays]
#1282059
08/10/12 05:49 PM
08/10/12 05:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Here goes nothing.....
You guys are deep into the More's Better theory.
You know, if some is good, more's better and too much is just right!
At least take the time to read the Joe Gibbs literature on Diesel oils. His point is, the extremely high detergent levels in the oil for diesel engines makes it harder for the ZDDP molecules to find a place to stick to. So you can have all the ZDDP in the world but if it can't find a surface, it doesn't do a lot of good.
Several years ago on this board a member detailed an experience with Diesel oils and lubrication failure on a new extremely high output engine. Most pooh-poohed the story, but he had no reason to lie about it. Maybe there is a hidden weakness in the Diesel formulations.
I think that the "use Diesel oil" theory is an article of faith among the believers and expect that its believers cling to the idea out of a religios fervor. Maybe it's time to open our eyes.
R.
i also believe this to be true. the theory of oil is oil simply isn't true once the blending for different applications starts happening. 
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1282060
08/10/12 06:20 PM
08/10/12 06:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
will not be any problem whatsoever being a semi synthetic. You dont NEED a dino oil to break an engine in...the internet can be a dangerous place....
Todd,
Not trying to argue, i was just repeating what Total Seal and other ring mfgs have told me .
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: dogdays]
#1282061
08/10/12 06:21 PM
08/10/12 06:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
His point is, the extremely high detergent levels in the oil for diesel engines makes it harder for the ZDDP molecules to find a place to stick to.
The only problem is Comp and other mfgs specifically suggest Rotella and other diesel oils to use for break in. I would assume that Comp has a handle on detergents and their effects
On the subject of too much zinc can be a bad thing...If we take a base oil with X amount of zinc, add an additive to make the total zinc content B. How much higher of a total zinc content do we have than the zinc content of the oils from the 60s-80s? Its all simple math, I know. But without a VOA from a qt of SH, SG etc oil, etc, Im not sure we can answer that fully. But, Id say its rather important...
Last edited by Von; 08/10/12 06:31 PM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: dogdays]
#1282063
08/11/12 12:20 AM
08/11/12 12:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
Prince_Valiant
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
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just off the top-of-my-head, I'm not sure Joe Gibbs is right on the "too much detergent" causing ZDDP to not be effective...
...again, without reading too much about it, just knowing how solutes act in solution, I don't think ZDDP needs to *stick* to metal in order to be effective. I guess I've always thought of ZDDP to be like a pressure additive more than anything. It always stays in solution, not necessarily sticking to anything, and as the flat-tappet tries to compress the oil and contact the camshaft, the ZDDP is more or less compressed, and sliding along smoothly against other ZDDP molecules, but always remaining in solution.
The presence of ZDDP (again, I would *imagine*) simply means the oil can withstand more pressure/compression without being displaced off the lifter/cam surface, allowing the oil to be the primary lubricant.
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express - 360 rwhp, 13.2 @ 103mph
1968 Coronet: 318, 2.76, 15.2 @ 92mph! (SOLD)
1976 Valiant: 360, 3.90, 12.90 @ 106 (SOLD)
1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: Prince_Valiant]
#1282064
08/11/12 02:32 AM
08/11/12 02:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Regarding the detergents in diesel oil rendering ZDDP weak; I'd take a close look at the source of that assertion. The formulators know how to bring these components together in a way that's effective. For example, API CJ-4 still has healthy amounts ZDDP. Take a look at the test summary for API CJ-4 by clicking HERENotice they're evaluating mushroom-style slider tappets in the Cummins ISB. Is Cummins going to approve an oil with an inherently weak anti-wear package? Probably not; they don't. There's a lot of research and technology that goes into a properly blended motor oil. Read more about it here: What's In Your Motor Oil? - link
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