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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: 696pack]
#1268493
07/29/12 06:03 PM
07/29/12 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
And how can you PROVE that?
A lot easier than the fairy tales you've been throwing around ...
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: 696pack]
#1268494
07/29/12 06:58 PM
07/29/12 06:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
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Quote:
And how can you PROVE that?
D, one of the good and bad things about Moparts is that much of the conventional wisdom about what is or has been 'known' or printed through the years is questioned. Many myths and legends have been torn to shreds on this board through proof.
I like that those who post things that are outside of 'conventional wisdom' are required to provide proof of things. Mere assertions are not taken lightly here.
If people have proof, not speculation, of a 440-4-A/C car...Great. Post it for the world to see. Don't be selfish. Make all of us smarter.
The issue at hand has nothing to do with VIN or sales codes but engine assembly codes.
The actual application of the B body 383 non-HP and HP produced from 68-70 varies by year and model making it very difficult to make sweeping statements as to what did and didn't come in which model without getting tied up in cumbersome explainations. ("HP only in RR's and Super Bees" We know that to be untrue in 69 and 70 through documentation).
The Charger BS I posted above comes from such independent research. The engine has been documented as being an HP engine and is orange. (This is contrary to GG's Part and casting number book (Vol II; pg 98) showing this combination as blue).
I believe the 1970 engine assembly code 084 was the B body 335HP four speed A/C application. I honestly do not mind learning something new if people have evidence that proves it is not.
The BS above clearly shows carb 36 indicating a Holley, which Dan addressed.
Do we need to open up the discussion as to whether or not the 70 383-HP came with a Holley or AVS? That would help solve part of the questions raised.
Quote:
You can not tell by the fender tag or V.I.N. if a car was a 330 or a 335 h.p.
Remember, you can see the engine assembly on a 69 and 70 LR tag.
Last edited by 69CoronetRT; 07/30/12 02:40 AM.
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1268495
07/30/12 12:16 PM
07/30/12 12:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
The vast majority of 383 4-spd cars with A/C are 3.23 geared.
I've heard but have no proof, which is why I've refrained until now to add it to this fantasy witch hunt for cars Chrysler didn't build. Chrysler didn't want to deal with A/C compressor warranty issues arising from high RPM decel on 440 4-spd vehicles, most with 3.54 gears. Decel having more "violent" RPM changes than accel.
In the '60s 440 4-spd cars were "race cars" for the street not cruisers that most owners wanted W/O power steering, power brakes, or A/C.
Chrysler execs had "company cars" for short periods of time. Wild, exoticly optioned factory assembly line built exec cars do not exist.
 pretty much my thoughts as well. Sure you might have been able to order a 383 with a 4spd, A/C and 3.55's...but the vast majority were 3.23 cars and all 440 4spds were 3.54's or better. I believe the compressor explanation but it doesn't need to be perfect, someone just figured that they'd have far less warranty claims if they eliminated A/C on the 440-4spd cars. 
I agree that the theory that 383 4spd AC cars with optional rears would pose as much of an issue with compressor reliability as would 440 4spd cars....but I think the assumption that because one was available, the other must be is erroneous. For whatever reason Chrysler figured it was in their best interest to forbid the 440hp 4spd AC combo....probably because the 440 had a steeper base gear and because it was deemed to be a higher performance engine.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1268496
07/31/12 02:20 AM
07/31/12 02:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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I know I'm gonna get harrassed but here goes. I'll stick my neck out. My dad owned a weird special edition 72 roadrunner. Not a SSP clone or GTX. Roadrunner. Fully loaded. 440, 4 speed, A/C, 2:76 gears(original owner traveled long distances and ordered it this way), power steering, power brakes, front disk brakes, white interior with black carpet, power windows, tinted windows, am/fm radio, rear spoiler, rear defogger, slotted exhaust tips, came from the windsor ontario plant when we lived down there, end up selling it in 84 for $900 during the oil crisis when you couldn't give muscle cars away. The ontario winters ate the bottom half of the car which my dad and his buddy fixed and painted yellow and black. I Believe it was a plum crazy car, dad was second owner...I don't have proof as I was 4 back then lol
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: dangina]
#1268497
07/31/12 08:03 AM
07/31/12 08:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I know I'm gonna get harrassed but here goes. I'll stick my neck out. My dad owned a weird special edition 72 roadrunner. Not a SSP clone or GTX. Roadrunner. Fully loaded. 440, 4 speed, A/C, 2:76 gears(original owner traveled long distances and ordered it this way), power steering, power brakes, front disk brakes, white interior with black carpet, power windows, tinted windows, am/fm radio, rear spoiler, rear defogger, slotted exhaust tips, came from the windsor ontario plant when we lived down there, end up selling it in 84 for $900 during the oil crisis when you couldn't give muscle cars away. The ontario winters ate the bottom half of the car which my dad and his buddy fixed and painted yellow and black. I Believe it was a plum crazy car, dad was second owner...I don't have proof as I was 4 back then lol
Was your Dad CEO of Chrysler back then ?
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1268498
07/31/12 12:15 PM
07/31/12 12:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I know I'm gonna get harrassed but here goes. I'll stick my neck out. My dad owned a weird special edition 72 roadrunner. Not a SSP clone or GTX. Roadrunner. Fully loaded. 440, 4 speed, A/C, 2:76 gears(original owner traveled long distances and ordered it this way), power steering, power brakes, front disk brakes, white interior with black carpet, power windows, tinted windows, am/fm radio, rear spoiler, rear defogger, slotted exhaust tips, came from the windsor ontario plant when we lived down there, end up selling it in 84 for $900 during the oil crisis when you couldn't give muscle cars away. The ontario winters ate the bottom half of the car which my dad and his buddy fixed and painted yellow and black. I Believe it was a plum crazy car, dad was second owner...I don't have proof as I was 4 back then lol
Was your Dad CEO of Chrysler back then ?
...I'm no '71 and up expert, but if memory serves;
- there is the 440/4spd/A/C thing
- all 440 cars were GTX's
- no 2.76 gears available (lowest was 3.23)
- no plum crazy in 1972
Did I miss anything?
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1268499
07/31/12 12:29 PM
07/31/12 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 904
Berwyn, IL
Moparlar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 904
Berwyn, IL
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I know I'm gonna get harrassed but here goes. I'll stick my neck out. My dad owned a weird special edition 72 roadrunner. Not a SSP clone or GTX. Roadrunner. Fully loaded. 440, 4 speed, A/C, 2:76 gears(original owner traveled long distances and ordered it this way), power steering, power brakes, front disk brakes, white interior with black carpet, power windows, tinted windows, am/fm radio, rear spoiler, rear defogger, slotted exhaust tips, came from the windsor ontario plant when we lived down there, end up selling it in 84 for $900 during the oil crisis when you couldn't give muscle cars away. The ontario winters ate the bottom half of the car which my dad and his buddy fixed and painted yellow and black. I Believe it was a plum crazy car, dad was second owner...I don't have proof as I was 4 back then lol
Was your Dad CEO of Chrysler back then ?
...I'm no '71 and up expert, but if memory serves;
- there is the 440/4spd/A/C thing
- all 440 cars were GTX's
- no 2.76 gears available (lowest was 3.23)
- no plum crazy in 1972
Did I miss anything?
Dave
No Spoiler in 72 and actually the only rear end for a 440 4 speed in 72 was a 3.54 dana.
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: 318 Stroker]
#1268505
07/31/12 01:20 PM
07/31/12 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 904
Berwyn, IL
Moparlar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 904
Berwyn, IL
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Quote:
400 6 bbl ???
The plot thickens... 
If you are refering to the A/C Line I am sure that is just a misprint
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1268507
07/31/12 02:45 PM
07/31/12 02:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,321
St. Louis, Mo
318 Stroker
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,321
St. Louis, Mo
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
400 6 bbl ???
The plot thickens...
If you are refering to the A/C Line I am sure that is just a misprint
He's just  
Who, me? 
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: 318 Stroker]
#1268508
07/31/12 03:01 PM
07/31/12 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
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Just throwing this out there. I just bought a 71 SSP, N code, 4 speed with A/C !! 3.23 SG. Love to see how many 71 SSP 4 speeds were shipped. Could not have been that many with A/C ! What tires were standard with the N code 4 speeds? Thanks.
Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: Moparlar]
#1268510
08/01/12 10:51 AM
08/01/12 10:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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Quote:
Quote:
400 6 bbl ???
The plot thickens...
If you are refering to the A/C Line I am sure that is just a misprint
Someone will STILL swear they saw /had one.
Then a nasty fight will break out.
Then someone will say "Never say never"
Then.... 
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: Commando1]
#1268511
08/01/12 12:05 PM
08/01/12 12:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
400 6 bbl ???
The plot thickens...
If you are refering to the A/C Line I am sure that is just a misprint
Someone will STILL swear they saw /had one.
Then a nasty fight will break out.
Then someone will say "Never say never"
Then....
No, they'll swear that their uncle bought one that he purchased from a little old lady in 1974 and despite the fact that the car had headers, shackles, mags, fuzzy dice and a mural of naked lady riding a dragon on the hood, there is NO WAY that the 6 pack could have been added. Conveniently, the car and all documentation was burned in a garage fire back in 1978, but it existed, I tell you!! 
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1268512
08/02/12 10:12 AM
08/02/12 10:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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Quote:
No, they'll swear that their uncle bought one that he purchased from a little old lady in 1974 and despite the fact that the car had headers, shackles, mags, fuzzy dice and a mural of naked lady riding a dragon on the hood, there is NO WAY that the 6 pack could have been added. Conveniently, the car and all documentation was burned in a garage fire back in 1978, but it existed, I tell you!!
Say: "AMEN" to that, brother.
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