|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: Montclaire]
#1265144
07/10/12 01:05 PM
07/10/12 01:05 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
|
91 Jag clutch from NAPA. Somebody else might remember the part numbr or exact model. I used it before and it is the shortest I could find.
I want my fair share
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: 3hundred]
#1265146
07/10/12 01:39 PM
07/10/12 01:39 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
Montclaire
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
|
Also, I would say that the relationship of the fan blade to the shroud is more important than the clutch face to the radiator (if greater than 1/4 inch, less is a big deal as the engine will rock on the mounts, esp with a stick). Seating the fan at the proper distance in relation to the shroud opening will help to guarantee good air flow.
Last edited by Montclaire; 07/10/12 01:57 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1265151
07/10/12 01:54 PM
07/10/12 01:54 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
Montclaire
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
|
Why are you making him waste money on another clutch? What you have should work fine, just fix it. This is the mopar kit, correct?
Last edited by Montclaire; 07/10/12 01:56 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: Montclaire]
#1265153
07/10/12 04:30 PM
07/10/12 04:30 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
The mounting block that is pressed onto the water pump shaft can be set at different depths, obviously yours is out too far. You may need to play around with it a bit but you should be able to mount that fan w no issues.
If this were the case then he would have an issue I would think with BELT ALIGNMENT ...
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: Montclaire]
#1265156
07/11/12 10:09 AM
07/11/12 10:09 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The mounting block that is pressed onto the water pump shaft can be set at different depths, obviously yours is out too far. You may need to play around with it a bit but you should be able to mount that fan w no issues.
If this were the case then he would have an issue I would think with BELT ALIGNMENT ...
Yes and no. He hasn't posted any pics, so it's hard to comment further, but a simple tweak on the press and maybe a wp pulley swap and he should be fine, but if it's the mopar fan there is no reason for it not to work. A lot can change on a car in 40+ years. The flat AC pulley should pick up a ton of room for you and they're easy to find.
If I'm reading this right he CHANGED the fan assembly off something that has been running for sometime , he makes no mention of belt alignment issues, so I don't even think that is an issue here.
Bob , MP has the wrong height unit in their kits and they KNOW it ... why do they still sell it then ????
Zippy, WTF ???? When is MP going to stop pushing GARBAGE on loyal customers ???
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: JohnRR]
#1265157
07/11/12 11:19 AM
07/11/12 11:19 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
|
Not sure what you're going off about since the clutch in the P4120758 kit has NEVER fit a 68 to 70 b body big block car at any point in it's history. It has always been too long for that application, nothing has changed. I tried it back in 1999 and it did not fit my car back then, and there is no reason to believe it will fit in 2012 either  In 1999 it was 3 and 1/4" long. In 2012, it is still 3 and 1/4" long. The clutch assy was originally sourced from a 6 cylinder van application, and was chosen for minimal HP loss....not based on cooling capability, and certainly not on the ability to fit any specific years or models.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1265158
07/11/12 12:33 PM
07/11/12 12:33 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Not sure what you're going off about since the clutch in the P4120758 kit has NEVER fit a 68 to 70 b body big block car at any point in it's history. It has always been too long for that application, nothing has changed.
I tried it back in 1999 and it did not fit my car back then, and there is no reason to believe it will fit in 2012 either
In 1999 it was 3 and 1/4" long.
In 2012, it is still 3 and 1/4" long.
The clutch assy was originally sourced from a 6 cylinder van application, and was chosen for minimal HP loss....not based on cooling capability, and certainly not on the ability to fit any specific years or models.
Thanks for the response Rich and telling us what the original source was, I have never used that kit but the thought has crossed my mind on it.
now I'll ask the really STUPID question , What did MP think people were going to use it in if the parts were sourced from a 6cly.VAN application ??? I have a 2002 MP catolog here , it's listed in the HEMI section, the Big block section , and the smallblock section all with the same part number of P4120758.
Description is as follows ...
Quote:
Most 60's and early 70's factory-built MUSCLE CARS were equipped with viscous fans for cooling purposes. Engineers have determined through dyno-testing that this viscous fan is the best replacement package. It provides thermostatically-controlled cooling, includes a lightweight balanced fan and takes the least amount of horsepower from the engine. Offers up to 15 horsepower gain on typical high performance V8s.
Has the description changed because it sure sounds like they are marketing it toward a specific years and models.
Seems like the bean counters took over ... again ... lets clean out existing stock of obsolete parts and sell them ... with no warranty of fitment ... to those dumb enough to buy MP parts .
This isn't directed at you Rich and it's great that someone like you is available to give us the lowdown  , but I'm having a hard time waving the MP flag , yes I do buy their parts and recommend them when they fit the need for others , when they keep pulling crap like this ...
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: JohnRR]
#1265160
07/11/12 01:11 PM
07/11/12 01:11 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
|
It was chosen from that application.... Quote:
....for minimal HP loss....
Per the fellow involved with setting up the part number, it was the clutch that slipped the most, and reduced dyno hp the least out of the huge pile of them that were tested.
Works fine on 71-up b bodies, e bodies, small block A bodies, and that's about all that I know of.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: CR8CRSHR]
#1265165
07/11/12 08:27 PM
07/11/12 08:27 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
|
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
|
Do not rely on a pusher fan for primary cooling. They are not efficient.
Have you ever tried to push a string? It's rather similar to pushing air through a restriction.
Pulling it is far more effective.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: lilmoose102]
#1265166
07/11/12 11:17 PM
07/11/12 11:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
Sinitro
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
|
Quote:
I have a 70 roadrunner,440,4 speed,22 inch radiator,with a shroud.I want to put a clutch fan on it,bought one from Mancini Racing at Carlisle,and it doesn"t fit.I looked up a mopar performance one at a local dealer and the measurements only allow a 1/4 of an inch between the fan clutch and radiator,not enough in my opinion.Any body else encounter this problem or have any suggestions? thanks.
I have almost the same setup in my 70 RR.
383, 4 speed, 3 core 22", shroud..
You have to use a short clutch fan either the Hayden Jag one or the Mopar TRW OE FC28, the clutch fan can only be a max of about 2.75" in height. This puts the fan 50% into the shroud and about 1" from the fan to the radiator, enough clearance to change the fan belt.
I prefer the FC28 over the Hayden as it has a closed mounting hub compared to the universal slots of the Hayden. For cooling my stroked 383 runs about 175 degrees in SoCal traffic on a hot day. I found my FC28 @ a garage sale for $30 still in a box but they are harder to find.
I hope that helps..
Just my $0.02.. 
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: CR8CRSHR]
#1265169
07/12/12 02:54 PM
07/12/12 02:54 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
|
Quote:
I have been watching this post now for the past couple of days and have yet to have anyone who has responded here to validate if, "1/4 of an inch separation" between the clutch fan and the radiator core is an acceptable distance. I am having a similar situation with my build...383 non A/C with an aftermarket aluminum Champion/American radiator. I am using the Jaguar clutch from Napa as it has the shortest shaft length of any out there, a 7 blade MoPar fan, without a fan shroud at present. It would be nice if someone here could validate that that distance will work properly. A simple yes or no would suffice without all the additional rhetoric. Please try to stay on point...
So if he has the Jag clutch already, what would be a shorter one?
Time for an electric fan only?
Torque strap the engine and hope for the best?
Just hope for the best?
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#1265171
07/12/12 03:56 PM
07/12/12 03:56 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
|
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
|
Quote:
Quote:
I have been watching this post now for the past couple of days and have yet to have anyone who has responded here to validate if, "1/4 of an inch separation" between the clutch fan and the radiator core is an acceptable distance. I am having a similar situation with my build...383 non A/C with an aftermarket aluminum Champion/American radiator. I am using the Jaguar clutch from Napa as it has the shortest shaft length of any out there, a 7 blade MoPar fan, without a fan shroud at present. It would be nice if someone here could validate that that distance will work properly. A simple yes or no would suffice without all the additional rhetoric. Please try to stay on point...
So if he has the Jag clutch already, what would be a shorter one?
Time for an electric fan only?
Torque strap the engine and hope for the best?
Just hope for the best?
As I mentioned above, another possibility is to heat the saddles and move the radiator core forward so it is even with the core support. There is usually .50"-.75" of additional room to be found here. I had the shop do this with my 3 core stock-type radiator.
Early B's are a notoriously tight fit for a clutch fan. I'm using the stock, early K member, repositioned 3 core rad w/shroud, Hayden clutch and torque strap. I have at least .75" clearance between the rad and clutch. I see no reason why this type of set up wouldn't give even more room in a later application. 
|
|
|
Re: Big block clutch fan
[Re: CR8CRSHR]
#1265176
07/14/12 05:32 PM
07/14/12 05:32 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I did the jaguar clutch on a Mopar fan for my '63 Dodge 330 with 440 install.
Even with the shorter shaft, I still had to have the brackets moved 1/2" on the sides of my radiator by the local radiator shop. I had him fix it for me and boil it out a few days earlier so he moved the brackets for next to nothing $.
|
|
|
|
|
