Moparts

Big block clutch fan

Posted By: lilmoose102

Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 04:11 PM

I have a 70 roadrunner,440,4 speed,22 inch radiator,with a shroud.I want to put a clutch fan on it,bought one from Mancini Racing at Carlisle,and it doesn"t fit.I looked up a mopar performance one at a local dealer and the measurements only allow a 1/4 of an inch between the fan clutch and radiator,not enough in my opinion.Any body else encounter this problem or have any suggestions? thanks.
Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 04:30 PM

The mounting block that is pressed onto the water pump shaft can be set at different depths, obviously yours is out too far. You may need to play around with it a bit but you should be able to mount that fan w no issues.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:05 PM

91 Jag clutch from NAPA. Somebody else might remember the part numbr or exact model. I used it before and it is the shortest I could find.
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:18 PM

If you use a Hayden 2706 instead of a 2707 you'll save .3 inches in radiator clearance. More research available here:

http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Documents/Cat_Hayden/2007-hayden-fan-clutch.pdf

Robert
Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:39 PM

Also, I would say that the relationship of the fan blade to the shroud is more important than the clutch face to the radiator (if greater than 1/4 inch, less is a big deal as the engine will rock on the mounts, esp with a stick). Seating the fan at the proper distance in relation to the shroud opening will help to guarantee good air flow.
Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:41 PM

Why so tight???

OEM rad???
Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:45 PM

Quote:

Why so tight???

OEM rad???



It's a 4spd car, so the mount is way out there, probably has the deep water pump pulley on it. He'll need to press the mount closer to the pump and maybe use an AC pulley or just jog what he has a bit to get it to work. No reason it shouldn't though, it just will take a little longer than he thought it might. How deep is the stock spacer that you took off, if you did?
Posted By: 64Post

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:48 PM

I "think" the 2765 is shorter still.

You also might be able to heat the saddles and move the radiator core forward by about .50".

Someone also posted a mopar PN that was for a 69 A body w/340 and A/C.
Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:52 PM

I guess I'd have to see the components at work here...

Got a three-core in front of a 7-blade A/C fan with viscous...

Plenty of clearance...
Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 05:54 PM

Why are you making him waste money on another clutch? What you have should work fine, just fix it. This is the mopar kit, correct?
Posted By: lilmoose102

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 07:44 PM

Thanks for all the input.It is a oem radiator,car was originally 383.automatic,don"t know if that matters.the car starts to heat up in traffic,at long as its cruising along its runs around 170-175,
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 08:30 PM

Quote:

The mounting block that is pressed onto the water pump shaft can be set at different depths, obviously yours is out too far. You may need to play around with it a bit but you should be able to mount that fan w no issues.



If this were the case then he would have an issue I would think with BELT ALIGNMENT ...

Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/10/12 08:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The mounting block that is pressed onto the water pump shaft can be set at different depths, obviously yours is out too far. You may need to play around with it a bit but you should be able to mount that fan w no issues.



If this were the case then he would have an issue I would think with BELT ALIGNMENT ...





Yes and no. He hasn't posted any pics, so it's hard to comment further, but a simple tweak on the press and maybe a wp pulley swap and he should be fine, but if it's the mopar fan there is no reason for it not to work. A lot can change on a car in 40+ years. The flat AC pulley should pick up a ton of room for you and they're easy to find.
Posted By: radiatorman

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 02:04 PM

The aftermarket fan clutch IS 2765 made by Hayden. If you call the Mopar tech line they will even give you this number as they know their kit has the wrong height clutch. Call me if you have any questions on this.

Bob Schirmer
Glen-ray Radiators
1.800.537.3775
1.715.842.3352
www.restorationradiators.com
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 02:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The mounting block that is pressed onto the water pump shaft can be set at different depths, obviously yours is out too far. You may need to play around with it a bit but you should be able to mount that fan w no issues.



If this were the case then he would have an issue I would think with BELT ALIGNMENT ...





Yes and no. He hasn't posted any pics, so it's hard to comment further, but a simple tweak on the press and maybe a wp pulley swap and he should be fine, but if it's the mopar fan there is no reason for it not to work. A lot can change on a car in 40+ years. The flat AC pulley should pick up a ton of room for you and they're easy to find.



If I'm reading this right he CHANGED the fan assembly off something that has been running for sometime , he makes no mention of belt alignment issues, so I don't even think that is an issue here.

Bob , MP has the wrong height unit in their kits and they KNOW it ... why do they still sell it then ????

Zippy, WTF ???? When is MP going to stop pushing GARBAGE on loyal customers ???
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 03:19 PM

Not sure what you're going off about since the clutch in the P4120758 kit has NEVER fit a 68 to 70 b body big block car at any point in it's history. It has always been too long for that application, nothing has changed.

I tried it back in 1999 and it did not fit my car back then, and there is no reason to believe it will fit in 2012 either

In 1999 it was 3 and 1/4" long.
In 2012, it is still 3 and 1/4" long.

The clutch assy was originally sourced from a 6 cylinder van application, and was chosen for minimal HP loss....not based on cooling capability, and certainly not on the ability to fit any specific years or models.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 04:33 PM

Quote:

Not sure what you're going off about since the clutch in the P4120758 kit has NEVER fit a 68 to 70 b body big block car at any point in it's history. It has always been too long for that application, nothing has changed.

I tried it back in 1999 and it did not fit my car back then, and there is no reason to believe it will fit in 2012 either

In 1999 it was 3 and 1/4" long.
In 2012, it is still 3 and 1/4" long.

The clutch assy was originally sourced from a 6 cylinder van application, and was chosen for minimal HP loss....not based on cooling capability, and certainly not on the ability to fit any specific years or models.



Thanks for the response Rich and telling us what the original source was, I have never used that kit but the thought has crossed my mind on it.

now I'll ask the really STUPID question , What did MP think people were going to use it in if the parts were sourced from a 6cly.VAN application ??? I have a 2002 MP catolog here , it's listed in the HEMI section, the Big block section , and the smallblock section all with the same part number of P4120758.

Description is as follows ...

Quote:

Most 60's and early 70's factory-built MUSCLE CARS were equipped with viscous fans for cooling purposes. Engineers have determined through dyno-testing that this viscous fan is the best replacement package. It provides thermostatically-controlled cooling, includes a lightweight balanced fan and takes the least amount of horsepower from the engine. Offers up to 15 horsepower gain on typical high performance V8s.



Has the description changed because it sure sounds like they are marketing it toward a specific years and models.

Seems like the bean counters took over ... again ... lets clean out existing stock of obsolete parts and sell them ... with no warranty of fitment ... to those dumb enough to buy MP parts .

This isn't directed at you Rich and it's great that someone like you is available to give us the lowdown , but I'm having a hard time waving the MP flag , yes I do buy their parts and recommend them when they fit the need for others , when they keep pulling crap like this ...
Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 04:49 PM

I have been watching this post now for the past couple of days and have yet to have anyone who has responded here to validate if, "1/4 of an inch separation" between the clutch fan and the radiator core is an acceptable distance. I am having a similar situation with my build...383 non A/C with an aftermarket aluminum Champion/American radiator. I am using the Jaguar clutch from Napa as it has the shortest shaft length of any out there, a 7 blade MoPar fan, without a fan shroud at present. It would be nice if someone here could validate that that distance will work properly. A simple yes or no would suffice without all the additional rhetoric. Please try to stay on point...
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 05:11 PM

It was chosen from that application....

Quote:

....for minimal HP loss....



Per the fellow involved with setting up the part number, it was the clutch that slipped the most, and reduced dyno hp the least out of the huge pile of them that were tested.

Works fine on 71-up b bodies, e bodies, small block A bodies, and that's about all that I know of.
Posted By: 70gtx440dana

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 06:55 PM

Quote:

I have been watching this post now for the past couple of days and have yet to have anyone who has responded here to validate if, "1/4 of an inch separation" between the clutch fan and the radiator core is an acceptable distance. I am having a similar situation with my build...383 non A/C with an aftermarket aluminum Champion/American radiator. I am using the Jaguar clutch from Napa as it has the shortest shaft length of any out there, a 7 blade MoPar fan, without a fan shroud at present. It would be nice if someone here could validate that that distance will work properly. A simple yes or no would suffice without all the additional rhetoric. Please try to stay on point...



I designed and engineered fan & clutch products for several years. We typically used a design guideline of 1" for fan blade to radiator core clearance. You can likely get a way with a bit less. I would not recommend to run a fan with 1/4" clearance to anything in an engine compartment. Also, make sure you use a fan shroud with approximatley 1" tip clearance and 50% or so fan depth covered by the shroud. If you don't your cooling efficiency will be very poor.
Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 10:31 PM

Thanks...That helps me partially. The actual clearance issue I am having is not with the fan itself, but the large round portion of the fan clutch that faces the radiator core. This is where the 1/4" separation is. I have plenty of space between the fan blades and the radiator core. This is all after market items and as far as a shroud goes, the American Eagle product line of Champion Radiators doesn't have a shroud available for my application. The Champion side does have the combo of radiator/shroud offered. I do have a MoPAR shroud but it will require some "fabbing up" to make it adapt to the American Eagle radiator. I also have the stock original radiator as well but I am reluctant in using it as it has been checked for leaks, but in reality it needs a re-core and it is just not in the budget at over 300.00 based on my latest quote. And that was the cheapest. I want to stay with the Aluminum radiator as it will dissipate the heat better than the OEM one especially out here in the HOT West, and may just opt for a 16" pusher fan in place of the water pump fan set up....Thanks in advance....
Posted By: 70gtx440dana

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/11/12 11:46 PM

Quote:

Thanks...That helps me partially. The actual clearance issue I am having is not with the fan itself, but the large round portion of the fan clutch that faces the radiator core. This is where the 1/4" separation is. I have plenty of space between the fan blades and the radiator core. This is all after market items and as far as a shroud goes, the American Eagle product line of Champion Radiators doesn't have a shroud available for my application. The Champion side does have the combo of radiator/shroud offered. I do have a MoPAR shroud but it will require some "fabbing up" to make it adapt to the American Eagle radiator. I also have the stock original radiator as well but I am reluctant in using it as it has been checked for leaks, but in reality it needs a re-core and it is just not in the budget at over 300.00 based on my latest quote. And that was the cheapest. I want to stay with the Aluminum radiator as it will dissipate the heat better than the OEM one especially out here in the HOT West, and may just opt for a 16" pusher fan in place of the water pump fan set up....Thanks in advance....



1/4" for the fan clutch is very close. If you have a thermostatic clutch it is designed to engage/disengage properly based on the air temp passing through the radiator. At 1/4" you will get radiant heat from the radiator that will prematurely engage the fan clutch. This will lead to the fan working more than it really needs to cool your application. Still sounds like you need a shorter fan clutch to me. This will set the fan and clutch back further from the radiator.
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 12:19 AM

Quote:

I have been watching this post now for the past couple of days and have yet to have anyone who has responded here to validate if, "1/4 of an inch separation" between the clutch fan and the radiator core is an acceptable distance. I am having a similar situation with my build...383 non A/C with an aftermarket aluminum Champion/American radiator. I am using the Jaguar clutch from Napa as it has the shortest shaft length of any out there, a 7 blade MoPar fan, without a fan shroud at present. It would be nice if someone here could validate that that distance will work properly. A simple yes or no would suffice without all the additional rhetoric. Please try to stay on point...



FWIW, 1/4" clearance to the clutch took out the radiator on my Hemi Ramcharger. Getting by with about 1/2" with no more problems. YMMV.

Robert
Posted By: feets

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 12:27 AM

Do not rely on a pusher fan for primary cooling. They are not efficient.
Have you ever tried to push a string? It's rather similar to pushing air through a restriction.

Pulling it is far more effective.
Posted By: Sinitro

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 03:17 AM

Quote:

I have a 70 roadrunner,440,4 speed,22 inch radiator,with a shroud.I want to put a clutch fan on it,bought one from Mancini Racing at Carlisle,and it doesn"t fit.I looked up a mopar performance one at a local dealer and the measurements only allow a 1/4 of an inch between the fan clutch and radiator,not enough in my opinion.Any body else encounter this problem or have any suggestions? thanks.



I have almost the same setup in my 70 RR.
383, 4 speed, 3 core 22", shroud..
You have to use a short clutch fan either the Hayden Jag one or the Mopar TRW OE FC28, the clutch fan can only be a max of about 2.75" in height. This puts the fan 50% into the shroud and about 1" from the fan to the radiator, enough clearance to change the fan belt.

I prefer the FC28 over the Hayden as it has a closed mounting hub compared to the universal slots of the Hayden. For cooling my stroked 383 runs about 175 degrees in SoCal traffic on a hot day. I found my FC28 @ a garage sale for $30 still in a box but they are harder to find.

I hope that helps..

Just my $0.02..
Posted By: ahy

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 03:34 AM

Agree 1/4" is too tight... and agree the MP kit fits and cools my 496" E just fine... and agree you need a shorter clutch for your application. I have had good luck with the Hayden clutch in other applications.
Posted By: 05dakota

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 02:34 PM

had same issue on my 66 newport. had to use the shorter clutch
Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 06:54 PM

Quote:

I have been watching this post now for the past couple of days and have yet to have anyone who has responded here to validate if, "1/4 of an inch separation" between the clutch fan and the radiator core is an acceptable distance. I am having a similar situation with my build...383 non A/C with an aftermarket aluminum Champion/American radiator. I am using the Jaguar clutch from Napa as it has the shortest shaft length of any out there, a 7 blade MoPar fan, without a fan shroud at present. It would be nice if someone here could validate that that distance will work properly. A simple yes or no would suffice without all the additional rhetoric. Please try to stay on point...




So if he has the Jag clutch already, what would be a shorter one?

Time for an electric fan only?

Torque strap the engine and hope for the best?

Just hope for the best?
Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 07:11 PM

Not sure if in fact I have the Jag fan clutch as I bought it a few years back through NAPA. I noticed that the Hayden 2765 is the same with and overall height of 2.62 inches. Not sure if that is what I have but I will be checking later today. I do have a torque strap already so that will help...measure twice or 3 times and then correct it or stay with what I have. Stay tuned and more to follow...Thanks in advance.....cr8crshr/Bill
Posted By: 64Post

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 07:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have been watching this post now for the past couple of days and have yet to have anyone who has responded here to validate if, "1/4 of an inch separation" between the clutch fan and the radiator core is an acceptable distance. I am having a similar situation with my build...383 non A/C with an aftermarket aluminum Champion/American radiator. I am using the Jaguar clutch from Napa as it has the shortest shaft length of any out there, a 7 blade MoPar fan, without a fan shroud at present. It would be nice if someone here could validate that that distance will work properly. A simple yes or no would suffice without all the additional rhetoric. Please try to stay on point...




So if he has the Jag clutch already, what would be a shorter one?

Time for an electric fan only?

Torque strap the engine and hope for the best?

Just hope for the best?



As I mentioned above, another possibility is to heat the saddles and move the radiator core forward so it is even with the core support. There is usually .50"-.75" of additional room to be found here. I had the shop do this with my 3 core stock-type radiator.

Early B's are a notoriously tight fit for a clutch fan. I'm using the stock, early K member, repositioned 3 core rad w/shroud, Hayden clutch and torque strap. I have at least .75" clearance between the rad and clutch. I see no reason why this type of set up wouldn't give even more room in a later application.
Posted By: CR8CRSHR

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/12/12 10:55 PM

First off, thanks to all with their input. I must admit that I kind of hijacked this thread and to the OP I did not mean for that to take place. Sorry if you took offense. We did however have a common situation. Anyway here is what I have found out. The aftermarket Champion/American Eagle Aluminum radiator I bought is actually too thick in the cores than my original 2 core stock 22" radiator. I removed the Aluminum one and dropped in the original and I have just over an inch clearance from the clutch to the radiator core. I also have a fan shroud to mount with it which I am hoping at least for the time being will work to keep the car running cool until I can re-core it. So that will be the direction I will take with my build. Again thanks for the extremely knowledgeable comments on this subject. I learned quite a bit and the link shared for Hayden's web site proved to be a great item to keep in the files for future reference. Now that that is a done deal, all I need to do is receive my power steering pump mounting bracket and get a belt for it and I am ready for the initial fire up. Stay tuned for a follow up post. MoParts Rocks....
Posted By: lilmoose102

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/13/12 03:05 PM

I started quite the discussion here,I ordered a Napa #261306 clutch fan from a local dealer.Its overall height is 2.67 inches,it fits 91 to 96 Jaguars. They say I should have it some time today,I will be away a few days but will add an update when I install it. Thanks everyone.
Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/13/12 08:36 PM

Anybody have a pn for bolts?
Posted By: tubedriver

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/14/12 06:37 AM

I bought one on Ebay, from someone else it did not fit either.
69 Charger, 1/8 clearance on radiator, but no problems so far.
I do not like it, too tight.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/14/12 09:32 PM

I did the jaguar clutch on a Mopar fan for my '63 Dodge 330 with 440 install.

Even with the shorter shaft, I still had to have the brackets moved 1/2" on the sides of my radiator by the local radiator shop. I had him fix it for me and boil it out a few days earlier so he moved the brackets for next to nothing $.
Posted By: lilmoose102

Re: Big block clutch fan - 07/19/12 03:46 PM

I got the Napa 261306 fan clutch the clearance looks ok,but my fan won"t bolt on to it!!!! What a mess!!! Now I'm stuck with this fan clutch.
© 2024 Moparts Forums