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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: feets]
#1226299
05/04/12 02:05 AM
05/04/12 02:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
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Quote:
Before you start changing parts, grab the temp gun and check things out.
Putting a little distance between the trans cooler and radiator may help a wee bit.
I'm not a fan of attaching things to the radiator core.
I agree. Check with the IR gun. They really come in handy. But they don't read very well of shiny surfaces. Like a polished aluminum radiator or chrome headers.
Sure optimum is the fan blades 1/2 inside the shroud edge. But I don't think 1/3 in would cause all the problems you are having.
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1226300
05/04/12 03:04 AM
05/04/12 03:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
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"Antifreeze" does not cool as well as water or water with additive. "Antifreeze" has many properties. Many of those properties are accomplished by the additives blended with the Ethelyne Glycol (the part that resists freezing). The property of resistance to freezing in "Antifreeze" is not a needed by Belvedere1 and those few who live in his same climate. Now those living in colder climates (most), you do need resistance to freezing in winter from antifreeze. No need to debate that. Now, those few who don’t need the resistance to freezing in their car still need the additives in their cooling systems for protection. The Justice Brothers Radiator Super Cooler (RC/22P) has an additive package formulated to include properties for: water pump lubrication, anti corrosives, Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCA's), surfactants, stop rust, resisting acid formation, anti foaming to name a few. Here's a fairly thorough conducted test of cooling additives in regards to temperature: http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature...s/viewall.html From test: Quote:
Justice Brothers' Radiator Cooler gave us the lowest temperature during our testing - 177 F - and provided the lowest average temperatures overall when mixed with water alone.
In the case of Belvedere1 , I personally would like to recommend also adding a bottle of Cooling System Protector (CSP/1P) when running straight distilled water and a large system. It has additional SCA's, water pump lubrication, corrosion inhibitors and acid neutralizers. It also contains special metal deviators that act as a ground strap between dissimilar metals like the many aluminum to cast iron to brass to rubber transitions. That gives extra electrolysis and anti rust protection as additives get depleted over time over a large area.
Check electrolysis with a digital voltmeter. Attach the ground to the radiator body. Then float the positive lead in the radiator fluid mixture. You should not have more than about .3 volts.
We all run sealed ZZ4 crate motors per class rules in the circle track car I crew on. I have seen guys that use Redline water wetter spit brownish water on a hot day. The track approved engine rebuilder stated our motor's coolant passages using Justice Brothers additive had no corrosion whereas the Redline users didn't look as clean.
Steve Wall
Regional Sales Representative
Justice Brothers High Point Distributing
www.justicebrothers.com
stevewall68@gmail.com
Last edited by autoxcuda; 05/04/12 03:20 AM.
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: Belvedere1]
#1226301
05/04/12 08:43 AM
05/04/12 08:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Thanks for the info there. I just went to go over some of the suggestions and I would say that only about 25-30% of the fan blade is in the shroud so now I am thinking I may need to search for a clutch fan spacer to sink the fan in a little further. I still have some room to be safe with clearance between the rad and the fan clutch.
Also, the trans cooler is mounted directly to the radiator with the zip ties from the cooler kit. I never really liked that setup but thought it would be ok but now I am not sure that is ideal for allowing the radiator to fully do its job. I will do some further investigating this weekend.
Thanks all.
I've run the cheap Summit plastic 18.5" fan in the last few 440's. I think w/ a 1.5" spacer... they work great car runs cool and the weight a few ounces PLUS you won't cut your fingers to heck working around them.
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1226302
05/04/12 12:58 PM
05/04/12 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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With all due respect, I doubt seriously what's in his radiator is the root cause.
Maybe something will run 10 degrees cooler than something else but he should see a larger drop.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: feets]
#1226303
05/04/12 01:54 PM
05/04/12 01:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
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Quote:
With all due respect, I doubt seriously what's in his radiator is the root cause.
Maybe something will run 10 degrees cooler than something else but he should see a larger drop.
 on the root cause.
Either a combination of small stuff, radiator blockage, or a tuning issue.
Wonder if cam duration 254 @.050 with 3.75 stroke, 9.5 converter, rear gear factor in here??? 
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1226304
05/04/12 07:36 PM
05/04/12 07:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 551
LA & L.A.
MoparPosterChild
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 551
LA & L.A.
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Is your radiator aluminum? If it is try shining a flashlight through the front of it. If you can't see any light coming through the other side, you need a new radiator. Those aluminum ones will go bad if they get too hot just one time. I'm on my 3rd one in one of my cars. Took forever to figure it out.
2018 Dodge DEMON #18
1970 Plymouth Duster 406" Stroker
1969 Charger 500" Stroker
1964 Dodge Polara 426 GEN III HEMI
1970 Plymouth Cuda Hellcrate Project car
1974 Dodge Ramcharger Project car
2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited
2017 Ram 3500
2012 Dodge Caravan R/T
1972 Charger Mopar 392 HEMI Stolen
2008 Challenger SRT-8 Gone
2010 Challenger SRT-8 Gone
2006 Charger SRT-8 Gone
2007 Charger R/T Gone
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: Belvedere1]
#1226307
05/05/12 12:41 AM
05/05/12 12:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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Can you turn the clutch fan by hand with the engine hot? There should be ALOT of resistance.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: Belvedere1]
#1226309
05/05/12 01:50 AM
05/05/12 01:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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It looks like the radiator is doing a fair job. 34 degrees is good. I'd like to see a bigger drop but wouldn't we all?
Did you check for any cold spots in the core?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: Belvedere1]
#1226311
05/05/12 02:06 AM
05/05/12 02:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,706
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,706
North Dakota
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Reading through this post reminds me of the time I fought an overheating problem with a '72 400 in a Newport. After going through all the usual details and coming up short, it turned out to be a glazed fan belt. Fan and pump never came up to speed. You never know.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: Belvedere1]
#1226313
05/05/12 08:57 AM
05/05/12 08:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
Nothing to speak of really maybe 2-3 degrees of variation moving across the core in a row type pattern. I am thinking I need to sink the fan in a little closer to rad after looking more closey at things.
I would also like to get the trans cooler mounted independent of the rad core, I cant help but think that would help.
Also looked into different pulley diameters but I am not seeing anything out there in a stamped steel, stock type water pump pulley other than what was on all big blocks of that era. I need to research that more.
On the drive ratios, as original there was a "with AC" setup that provided overdrive and used a "with AC" WP and a standard setup without the overdrive and matching WP. The overdrive "with AC" was significant. Something like 20-25% from memory.
I wound up with about 7% WP overdrive using repop steel pulleys from Bouchillon on the accessories and a 6" aluminum 4 groove crank pulley from March. The standard steel crank pulley is 7" or 71/4" on most models. I used the smaller crank pullley to slow things down a little on my faster than stock spinning engine.
Reading the update on your testing... it sounds like it gets hot at idle and will not cool off on a roll. You have both "hot at speed" and "hot at idle". Temps on the radiator are pretty consistant so it doesn't have any obvious signs of blockage.
On a roll over 40 MPH, the fan basically doesn't matter. Since you have "hot at speed" there is something going on with the radiator, WP or engine itself. It sounds like the engine block was well cleaned so rule that out. Tuneup with mechanical advance OK. Vacuum advance would help. The high stall convertor and big cooler required adds to the heat load. Mounting the trans cooler independantly would take some stress off the radiator. It may help cooling a little but not a big impact.
How about some more specifics on the WP and radiator? Type and brand of WP and thickness and age and brand of the radiator? Did it always run hot or did it happen over time or after a change? I'm thinking your setup and location just has very high cooling requirements and you need a really high capacity radiator and WP to keep up.
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: DARTH V8Я]
#1226315
05/05/12 10:42 AM
05/05/12 10:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Can you turn the clutch fan by hand with the engine hot? There should be ALOT of resistance.
This is a very real possibilty, it happened to me. New fan clutch and it was back to normal.
Good luck with it.
I'm betting it a at least a couple factors, not just one.
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Re: Running hot and running out of ideas 67 Belvedere
[Re: Dabee]
#1226317
05/05/12 02:22 PM
05/05/12 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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He verified that his radiator is doing it's job. There's no need to look at replacing it.
He needs to find the source of the heat.
A loose converter dumping trans heat into the radiator or blown head gasket would easily cause that problem.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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