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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: Dart of Denmark]
#1215260
04/13/12 03:45 PM
04/13/12 03:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Thanks! That confirm my thought's about them!
My heads are indy sr if I go with Harlans Sharp is S70015k best options for me? I want 1.5 ratio.
The S70015k rockers are what I run with my SRs. They fit really well and no shimming was necessary. Be sure to look the Harland Sharp rockers over very carefully for metal shavings before you install them. 
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: Dart of Denmark]
#1215262
04/14/12 01:36 AM
04/14/12 01:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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That big photograph tells you exactly where they're going to break.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: rickraw]
#1215264
04/14/12 06:59 AM
04/14/12 06:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Definitely spend the money here. I would also be looking for steel body's if anybody like T& D makes them. After what I have spent on repairing Jesel stuff, I want to go to the best.
My total lift is .775.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1215266
04/14/12 11:24 AM
04/14/12 11:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
That big photograph tells you exactly where they're going to break.
Could you elaborate on that......just curious.
To me, the needlebearings look too narrow to support any real valvespring pressure for long.
Smaller needles gives you more rollers in the loading
area
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1215268
04/14/12 01:24 PM
04/14/12 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That big photograph tells you exactly where they're going to break.
Could you elaborate on that......just curious.
To me, the needlebearings look too narrow to support any real valvespring pressure for long.
Smaller needles gives you more rollers in the loading
area
Not in the case of those junk rockers , did you check the link ?
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: jamesc]
#1215269
04/14/12 02:57 PM
04/14/12 02:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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Yup - the notch where they needed room, top and bottom. All bending stress focuses on changes in shape or direction.
I have to believe that perhaps 50% of the people who make this stuff have no engineering background at all - they just copy someone else's work.
If you need more room, since the strength is already fixed at the cross-section where clearance is needed, the proper method is to remove even more material, and leave the largest possible radius at the transition.
If those were mine, I'd be buzzing away at the cuts with my tiny Dremel, just blending the cuts into the parent casting.
Yes, small needles are better because you get more. Does that seem counter-intuitive? Each needle (assuming equal length) makes only line contact on the shaft and in the rocker, so more = better.
The smaller needles also have lower moment of inertia, so when they stop and change direction (every cycle) they begin rolling properly rather than skate for a millisecond.
The smaller needle also allows the rocker to have more material around the shaft, or a bigger shaft, since the needles are obviously smaller OD by 2 × the difference in needle thickness. It's small but it's in the right direction. Replace 1/8" needles with 1/16", you get 1/8" free room to bulk up another component (or don't, and save weight).
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: polyspheric]
#1215270
04/14/12 03:03 PM
04/14/12 03:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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BTW: those cute 90° angles are proof that this is not an FEA design, and that the "designer" chose the easiest possible solid geometric shapes (like building something using nothing but bricks).
A huge amount of weight can be pared off that rocker with complete safety. Some of it could be done on a mill by mounting all rockers on a shaft and cutting them all at once, then re-position, etc.
I don't think extra RPM is always a goal, but more control with the same springs always is.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1215272
04/14/12 03:32 PM
04/14/12 03:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Could you elaborate on that......just curious.
To me, the needlebearings look too narrow to support any real valvespring pressure for long.
Smaller needles gives you more rollers in the loading
area
Not in the case of those junk rockers , did you check the link ?
Nope didnt look
EDIT
I just looked.... I meant dia not those short needles
I had a feeling you didn't look , those bearings are scarey , along with the CCJ rockers and their brittle roller shafts breaking ...
The last place to skimp in on rockers .
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1215274
04/15/12 12:15 AM
04/15/12 12:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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The mfg. has decided to avoid the mistake made by almost all rocker mfg. (using full complement Torringtons) and instead is using caged bearings.
Positive: it allows him to use softer shafts by running the inner race directly on the shaft (a full complement uses the shaft as a journal surface and it must be like Rockwell 53-33).
The rollers never sweep past their neighbors turning the other way (as do all full complement). This hasn't been a problem TIKO, since the rocker body does not actually rotate, but only oscillates a few degrees, and despite their small diameter the needles don't rotate much either.
Negative: huge reduction in total bearing area.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Roller rocker for BigBlock ??
[Re: polyspheric]
#1215275
04/15/12 10:18 AM
04/15/12 10:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The mfg. has decided to avoid the mistake made by almost all rocker mfg. (using full complement Torringtons) and instead is using caged bearings.
Positive: it allows him to use softer shafts by running the inner race directly on the shaft (a full complement uses the shaft as a journal surface and it must be like Rockwell 53-33).
The rollers never sweep past their neighbors turning the other way (as do all full complement). This hasn't been a problem TIKO, since the rocker body does not actually rotate, but only oscillates a few degrees, and despite their small diameter the needles don't rotate much either.
Negative: huge reduction in total bearing area.
So now I'm lost , the CCJ rocker actually built something RIGHT ??? I figured that bearing was cheaper than a full caged needle bearing ?
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