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'71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
#1201225
03/22/12 04:22 AM
03/22/12 04:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,236
san diego
JonsGottaDusta
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,236
san diego
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Hello New Forum, I'll first list off the front suspension modifications on my Duster and then the predicament we are currently facing. 11.75" Disc Brake conversion Hotchkis strut rods 1" torsion bars Boxed LCA's + K-frame All poly bushings Hellwig front bar FR 16:1 manual steering box Custom made heim-joint + sleeve instead of tierods 17" Mustang Bullit Wheels with 5.94"(?) backspacing KYB Shocks So the issue I'm having is that nothing fits right and after months of hassle I'm forced to throw some 15" steelies back on the car. Driving the car gave me horrendous bump steer -with how low it is- because the crappy KYBs were on the bottom end of their travel and rendered themselves useless. Fortunately, one of my good friends was an engineer at Bilstein and he got me a set of fully adjustable, custom valved shocks (off our measurements) and now I'm trying to come up with a way for everything to work properly. The questions: 1.) Is there any variation of spacer or something that could make this wheel work with stock tie rods? 2.) The new shock ends are heim jointed ends, so there has to be something fabricated to mount them (upper mount). We were thinking about something similar to a first-gen mustang or falcon shock tower, since they are a little longer than stock. But I'm open to any input and and suggestions you may have. Fabrication isn't really an issue, it's just trying to find the proper setup for this. Any comments or input you have is greatly appreciated, thanks. 
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1201228
03/22/12 07:16 AM
03/22/12 07:16 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 416
Franklin Co. Illinois
runinonmt
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 416
Franklin Co. Illinois
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Is it me or do the rod ends look like they are screwed on and lockbolted? Pop the ends off and see what you have. Those wheels will need a quality spacer. IIRC a B-body rear on an A-body make them work
Ron
In sixty-five I was seventeen and running up one-o-one
I don't know where I'm running now, I'm just running on
Jackson Browne-Running On Empty
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: runinonmt]
#1201229
03/22/12 08:47 AM
03/22/12 08:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Talk to Bob's Profab and use one of his front coil overmounts as the afcos he uses have the same mont as those shocks. All fab work allready done for you.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: JonsGottaDusta]
#1201231
03/22/12 09:21 AM
03/22/12 09:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
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When you posted on FABO that you were running the newere wheels without a problem I was scratching my head because the 5.72 backspace wheels barely fit an a body. The only thing I can think of is try running a hubcentric wheel spacer and putting the stock tierods back on. Hold it did you say all poly bushings including the lowers? I bet the lower bushings are moving around and causing your problems. 
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: JonsGottaDusta]
#1201232
03/22/12 10:40 AM
03/22/12 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
The questions:
1.) Is there any variation of spacer or something that could make this wheel work with stock tie rods?
2.) The new shock ends are heim jointed ends, so there has to be something fabricated to mount them (upper mount). We were thinking about something similar to a first-gen mustang or falcon shock tower, since they are a little longer than stock. But I'm open to any input and and suggestions you may have. Fabrication isn't really an issue, it's just trying to find the proper setup for this.
1) You will need to use spacers or alter the track width of the brake hubs/rear axle to allow these wheels to work.
2) Lower mount should bolt on with a proper shouldered bolt. Upper mounts just need a saddle to mount the rod end, then weld or bolt the saddle to the stock mount are. You'll give up about an inch of travel to do this. Go here: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/
search afco universal shock mount. That's what you need.
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: moparpollack]
#1201233
03/22/12 04:27 PM
03/22/12 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 157
hawaii
pauly v.100
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 157
hawaii
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Quote:
When you posted on FABO that you were running the newere wheels without a problem I was scratching my head because the 5.72 backspace wheels barely fit an a body. The only thing I can think of is try running a hubcentric wheel spacer and putting the stock tierods back on.
Hold it did you say all poly bushings including the lowers? I bet the lower bushings are moving around and causing your problems.
Assuming the Hotchkis struts are adjustable, poly lowers shouldn't be moving around.
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: JonsGottaDusta]
#1201234
03/22/12 04:45 PM
03/22/12 04:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
So the issue I'm having is that nothing fits right and after months of hassle I'm forced to throw some 15" steelies back on the car.
Needs to be spaced out away from tie rod. Is it hitting the upper ball joint, inner frame rails, and/or sway bar too?
Quote:
Driving the car gave me horrendous bump steer -with how low it is- because the crappy KYBs were on the bottom end of their travel and rendered themselves useless.
What is it doing?: Feels loose, jumps from lane to lane, feel every crack in the road...?
I doubt it's actual bump steer (toe in/out during suspension travel). I just measured it in my A-body and it was pretty darn good.
I've run KYB's with the car very lowered. What was the distance between you LCA and frame?
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: JonsGottaDusta]
#1201237
03/22/12 09:30 PM
03/22/12 09:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,312
SoCal
68HemiB
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,312
SoCal
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Jon, if you have not yet flipped the outer tie rod ends back to where they belong (under the ball joint knuckle), no amount of shock fussing will alleviate your bump steer. I thought I made that clear back when I tried to align it for you. You say that you have taken the Mustang wheels off, so I assume that was so you could put the tie rods back where they belong. Is that not true?
If you are still trying to make the Mustang wheels work on your car, I will simply repeat what Ron, myself and others have told you - get some wheels that fit your car properly. There are other wheels on the planet besides steelies and those Mustang wheels.
I apologize if I have misunderstood your post, and will step aside and let others weigh in if that is the case.
Down to just a blue car now.
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: 68HemiB]
#1201239
03/23/12 02:12 AM
03/23/12 02:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Jon, if you have not yet flipped the outer tie rod ends back to where they belong (under the ball joint knuckle), no amount of shock fussing will alleviate your bump steer. I thought I made that clear back when I tried to align it for you. You say that you have taken the Mustang wheels off, so I assume that was so you could put the tie rods back where they belong. Is that not true?
If you are still trying to make the Mustang wheels work on your car, I will simply repeat what Ron, myself and others have told you - get some wheels that fit your car properly. There are other wheels on the planet besides steelies and those Mustang wheels.
I apologize if I have misunderstood your post, and will step aside and let others weigh in if that is the case.
 !! Wait second. Hold the phone! I didn't see where he flipped the tie rods to the top side of the steering arm. Sounds like Steve has some inside insight on this.
Ok, from the bump steer measurements I took on my A-body car, that WILL give you a bump steer condition. That's changing the axis point up 1" to 1 1/2" up.
Usually with 17" rims you will have to run spacers to get an affective (net) backspacing of 5.7 to 5.5" But that is really dependent on the inside diameter of the particular rim you are using. Rim with the same tire size diameter will have different inside diameters near that ball joint.
Also the amount of caster you run can sometimes make the tie rod closer to the rim.
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1201240
03/23/12 10:15 AM
03/23/12 10:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
Quote:
Jon, if you have not yet flipped the outer tie rod ends back to where they belong (under the ball joint knuckle), no amount of shock fussing will alleviate your bump steer. I thought I made that clear back when I tried to align it for you. You say that you have taken the Mustang wheels off, so I assume that was so you could put the tie rods back where they belong. Is that not true?
If you are still trying to make the Mustang wheels work on your car, I will simply repeat what Ron, myself and others have told you - get some wheels that fit your car properly. There are other wheels on the planet besides steelies and those Mustang wheels.
I apologize if I have misunderstood your post, and will step aside and let others weigh in if that is the case.
!! Wait second. Hold the phone! I didn't see where he flipped the tie rods to the top side of the steering arm. Sounds like Steve has some inside insight on this.
Agreed. Sounds like there is more to this situation.
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1201241
03/23/12 03:24 PM
03/23/12 03:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,236
san diego
JonsGottaDusta
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,236
san diego
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Frankenduster: This has nothing to do with pretty shocks. The were specifically built for my car and custom valved by one of the head engineers at Bilstein, and they were a birthday gift. If I wanted $400 bolt in OEM-type shocks I could have bought them. This has to do with the performance aspect as this is going to be a ROAD RACE car, not a restoration. If that's the only advice you have I'd suggest you troll the restoration forum as this isn't supposed to be a place of standard Mopar close-mindedness.
Steve: Due to being at a new school and job the car hasn't been touched in a while. I've tried to find places with proper backspacing wheels that are the same design as current, but have been very unsuccessful in my endeavors. The tie-rod setup is being removed and it's all going back to stock. It just boils down to wasting more money on a temporary solution, which I'd like to avoid if possible. The flipped tie rods go back to something Ron told me could be done. I knew little-to-nothing about suspension at the time and didn't understand the aspects of geometry of changing those types of things, which is why it wound up that way.
runinonmt: those are adjusters on the shocks not screws.
Thanks to the others for the solid input. I measured the shocks and they are a hair over 1/2" wide, so I'm gonna have to come up with a different solution for the shocks. I talked to Eric and he said he measured these out longer than stock, so I definitely cannot put on something that is going to shorten it 1". Because I'll destroy the shocks if they bottom out before the car is on the bump stops.
Last edited by JonsGottaDusta; 03/23/12 03:27 PM.
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Re: '71 Duster Front Suspension Woahs!
[Re: cageman]
#1201243
03/23/12 10:01 PM
03/23/12 10:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Get some 18's and have a permanent fix dude....
Mopar to the bone!!!
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