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Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
#1190018
03/02/12 11:48 PM
03/02/12 11:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
OP
Too Many Posts
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OP
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Have you ever noticed that in our Mopar street/strip and all out type race cars never seem to run the 6pk setup on the smallblocks ? I mean I see alot of people running the bigblock 6 pk setups but it seems that other then a stock type restoration you just dont see many using the 6pk on the smallblocks. I know they run good on the bigblocks so I just got to wondering why the 6pk just never seems to be used much on the smallblocks. I wonder why ???  Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/02/12 11:49 PM.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1190020
03/03/12 12:25 AM
03/03/12 12:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
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Quote:
Simple if you ask me, most small block cars you see are A-bodies, and A-body guys are also low budget guys (same goes for many SB powered B-body owners for that matter), a good running Six Pack setup will run you in the range of $1,500-$2,500.00 all in, and that's as much as many of those guys have in thier entire car. 
I resemble that remark......almost. Yes, it's very much about the low budget, plus it's less necessary on small block cars.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1190023
03/03/12 02:25 AM
03/03/12 02:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
From what I have seen and read, the Six Pack is more about street image and visual appeal than actual performance. A well tuned 4 barrel is hard to beat.
Hmmmmmm......my 410 cid stroked 340/6, 443 RWHP Challenger T/A has put the hurt on many BBlk 4bbl and BBlk multi carbed cars,.....quite a few SB cars that are heavy hitters out there, seen a few fierce SB A andd E bodies over the years turn some serious times,....but it does take some coin to build a serious SB engine, hence the ease of just dropping in a BBlk for less $$$$$$
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1190026
03/03/12 02:54 AM
03/03/12 02:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
phantomx
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
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^^^Do you go to the Monterey Historics and camp at the top of the hill in the terrace camp ground?
Travis..
70 GTX project, orig 440-4, 4 spd, track pack, FC7, stripper/street racer special.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: phantomx]
#1190027
03/03/12 03:04 AM
03/03/12 03:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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Im surprised as some of the replies and man are some out of the loop when it comes to six packs and the cars they get put in.... Two nights ago I moved my charger 500 out in the 12 degree temps and 85 mph winds to get my f body in out of the weather. It comes down to a matter of choice not money, ive far less in my hemi car then my f body car..by probably 3x. Remember moparts is just a small spec of the real mopar world....ive 2 small block six pack stroker cars, working on a 3rd. F duster, I know its just your opinion, but its been proven a six pack will run equal or harder then a single 4 carb setup. Its easy to dump alot of money in small block six packs, then add on the stroker aspect, nitrous builds, race blocks....costly trans and dana-s,alterktions, actually most I know, its not about money its about the choice. Im 8-0 on the streets vs some impressive cars in the past 3 years, one a known A-12 car. If anything it comes down to imo the lack of intakes but the oem works well modified and the mod man rocks.... Most dont take notice to a small block six pack until they get spanked by one 
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: A57_RT ]
#1190028
03/03/12 03:23 AM
03/03/12 03:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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Scott, you have a great grasp on the A body world and I had to chuckle a bit when you more or less say a body people are cheap, almost make it sound wrong to put a six pack on a lesser car  Here again I really think if the A body cars and even f body cars were not getting by with small blocks and doing well, there would be more BB cars like in the past. Not needed now with strokers. Now if I had a wedge B body, id have a BB stroker six pack due to the weight. But at 3250lbs, some have no need for a BB or such. So are we fools for using nos X blocks, the only seasoned race block out of the small block group, about 3k from box to stand ready to assemble? I know you have a $$$$340 resto block in your 426 Scott, what is the difference in that vs spending min 2k for an oem type six pack as a starting point in an a-body or any other body???? A simple choice maybe... Its ironic in a way as im actually just getting ready to goto the shed to assemble another set of carbs for the current X block stroker motor.....and I had a thought. I read so many post about both BB and small block people that have issues with there six pack setup....maybe thats part of it, some cant grasp a single carb let alone getting three to work right together.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: A57_RT ]
#1190033
03/03/12 05:21 AM
03/03/12 05:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
A good breathing 400 plus inch stroker at 7500rpm needs more then 750 cfm, yes its also street driven, thrashed often.
Jeez! You spin that mill THAT high? Us BIG block guys can make power UNDER 6000 rpms..... 
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: A57_RT ]
#1190035
03/03/12 10:25 AM
03/03/12 10:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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Bow do I feel like a unwanted redheaded stepchild by reading this post.
I may have been a "low budjet" working guy before my disability and I am proud to say that I do have a 340. This 340 just happens to have a 6 pack bolted on it and also just happens that it is in a lowly 81 stepside shorty and I am proud of it. I worked hard to afford my 6 pack system.
I have had numerous A and B body cars in the years that I have owned Mopars. This combination just happens to be the most fun to drive Mopar vehicle that I have built/owned.
I will admit that it isnt in the class of a high dollar HEMI, A12 or most E bodys.
I am not afraid to take it out for a drive even if it may be caught in a rain or snow storm when those above mentiond cars are locked at home in the garage because the high dollar owners are afraid that they will melt.
Call me low buck/low budjet. I will be in my truck with my 340 and my trio of Holleys while you high buck guys are waiting for the sun to shine or to open the door on your fancy show poodle trailer.
I am truckless..
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#1190036
03/03/12 11:30 AM
03/03/12 11:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
pinkduster
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
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I think another reason that you see more big block six packs than small block six packs is because of people building clones. (Oh how I hate to use the term.)  Even if a car isn't built as a full blown clone... Say, more of a hot rod / street machine, it seems that Mopar guys still go for a some-what stock-ish appearance. So you build a car sort of as it "could have been" from the factory. Hence all the B and E body 440 six pack cars that are out there. To the best of my A-body knowledge, no A-bodies came from the FACTORY with a 340 six pack. So my theory (and it's just a theory) is that A-body guys build a /6 or 318 A-body to emulate a 340 A-body and since they didn't come from the factory with a six pack, they get built with a 4 barrel. You might actually find more 340 six pack builds in E-bodies because of guys trying to emulate the AAR and T/A cars. At one time, I had actually considered putting a six pack set up on my 71 Duster 340. But like mentioned, the cost is prohibitive. I have a good running Holley DP on it... So why change it? Plus I actually like the look of that $$$ 71 340 air cleaner that I only paid $ for at the Mopar nats before these cars were really worth anything.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1190038
03/03/12 12:14 PM
03/03/12 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
From what I have seen and read, the Six Pack is more about street image and visual appeal than actual performance. A well tuned 4 barrel is hard to beat.
anything can be tuned, even a six pack. I'm running a completely stock six pack on my 440. Car is pushing 600hp and will probably be in the 11.teens to 11.0's this year. I'm sure the 6-pack has it's limits but if you're running a 750-850DP the six pack is tough to beat especially at the big end. When the outboards open it's way more jarring than a 4bbl.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: pinkduster]
#1190039
03/03/12 12:27 PM
03/03/12 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,009
Richmond Twp. Mi.
Mr340
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,009
Richmond Twp. Mi.
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Quote:
You might actually find more 340 six pack builds in E-bodies because of guys trying to emulate the AAR and T/A cars.
Funny thing is in this pic I have the R/T hood on the car.
I put the T/A hood on after I swapped motors and went to a single 4bbl.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1190040
03/03/12 12:33 PM
03/03/12 12:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
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Im a little on the fence as to why people think that the A body croud are poor budget hot rodders. I know the only reason I have mmy Demon is because I love the demon body style. I also love the super bee, Charger, coronet, challenger, cuda, road runner, gtx, you get the idea. As for the six pack, I seriously thought about running one on my 408, and kinda wish I did, but I was a lot younger then and thought my hood wouldnt clear without cutting a huge hole in there so thats the only reason I didnt. I just didnt reserch it and just made a decision based on what looked like no room. I even had the intake and carbs for it at the time.
Just no air cleaner to mock it up to.
I have close to 20 years, and closer to 20+K in the Demons body, paint, trans, rear end, tires and wheel, I have closer to 8 in the engine, so money wasnt an issue with me, as I did it in time and the cost felt less because of the time frame.
Im getting a fresh start in the sixpack world here in a while when I pop a set up on the Ramcharger im building, and if I dont like it or get confused on the set up I can always sell it as its a complete 70 set up air cleaner to carbs to intake.
Still looking for that 70 v code super bee to restore thats affordable.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1190041
03/03/12 01:56 PM
03/03/12 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Ok, some interesting responses to my post (hits some nerves eh?). Keep in mind that my current project is a small block A-body, and I chose it because I love the looks, it's certainly not been a cheap car to restore! My "A-body guys are cheap" comment was tongue in cheek, not a looking down my snob nose at the lowly A-body crowd I assure you. That said I have to say that over the years of observing this hobby there is a strong eliment of truth/fact to that comment, although "cheap" is probably a bit harsh, it's more likely that it's a matter of affordability and that A-body cars have generally been at the lower end of the value scale, I.E. affordable to the average working stiff (put me in that catagory). Ok, so a straight answer to the OP question? IMO It's a combo of many things in no specific order: * Not needed to make equal or POSSIBLY slightly more power over a 4 barrel * Affordability * Small "clone crowd" with the TA and AAR's being the sole factory SB 6 pack cars. * Tunability (although I don't see this as an issue at all, some are intimidated by all those carbs!) I think the single biggest reason that most run 6 packs on small blocks is visiual appeal, they do look super cool when you pop the hood
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1190042
03/03/12 02:07 PM
03/03/12 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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Scott, your rep and skills in the mopar world go far past many. When one with your good rep and skills slips a lil on a comment its taken a bit different then if joe blow made it. We all know your a big a body supporter/lover, but yes id guess maybe since you do alot of higher end bb six pack/hemi/max wedge carb resto stuff its easy to understand your comment. But hey, look at it this way....when you post, people read it, thats a good thing. Just chalk it up to a off the cuff comment some can take out of context. We all knows the cars you have owned and could own, but you pick an a body because you like them.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: 2boltmain]
#1190048
03/04/12 12:48 AM
03/04/12 12:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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Quote:
Six packs are expensive already- but then to be easily tunable you have to pony up additonal $$ for the metering blocks with replacable screw in jets. I ran the Edelbrock CH-28 with 2 500cfm Edelbrock carbs on my Challengers. The entire setup was about $1000 less than the 6 pack. I plan on an Offenhauser 2x4 on my 360. Mutliple under hood carbs do not have the lead in performance but look COOL AND ERA CORRECT!!
you don't have to buy a bunch of junk or gadjets to make a 6-pak work. usually thats the worst thing a guy can do.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1190049
03/04/12 12:49 AM
03/04/12 12:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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Quote:
Is it perhaps because a 750cfm single 4bbl is enough carb for a hot street/strip 340 or 360 where a big block may want more?
very logical comment. a thermoquad 340 is very potent mouse poison.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1190053
03/04/12 02:47 AM
03/04/12 02:47 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 892
Illinois
StrkrDart69
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 892
Illinois
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Quote:
Simple if you ask me, most small block cars you see are A-bodies, and A-body guys are also low budget guys (same goes for many SB powered B-body owners for that matter), a good running Six Pack setup will run you in the range of $1,500-$2,500.00 all in, and that's as much as many of those guys have in thier entire car.
WOW what a low blow. The reason I built an A body was because of weight. My car is 3100 lb with me in it. Throw in a stroker small block (not cheap) and it goes! And yes I have had six packs. I dont now, but I do like them. Your comment was low budget. 
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1190056
03/04/12 03:01 AM
03/04/12 03:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
OP
Too Many Posts
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OP
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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It just seemed to me that I always see alot of bigblocks with the 6pk setup and not many smallblocks. I know more bigblock models came with the 6pk in the B-bodies then the smallblocks came in. The 340 six pack was only in the 70 E-bodies or the 1971 Mr Norm Demon. But I see many cloned bigblock cars using them. Just seems since Mopar had the smallblock and bigblock 6pk cars that you would see more on the smallblock then you do. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/04/12 03:02 AM.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1190057
03/04/12 04:38 AM
03/04/12 04:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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Sheldon actually its funny you mention that, my current build is a stock appearing (actual 355 inch) 340-6 however it based on a X block (alt will hide the X) offset crank 3.455 stroke/4.050 bore, 12.8 domed, cammed down to 10.4 (solid), X heads, modified oem intake and if the oem valve covers wont fit I will buy the lil spacers made now. My point is other then small headers or oem hp manifolds this should be a nice little ringer motor and look stock at a real world 500/470, Ive nailed close to that with less head flow and less comp. Time will tell, going for the oem look if one could get a small block six pack in a mid 70-s F-body. Car has equally built 904 and S60 with 4:56 gears. Light F body coupe RR built as a time period correct possible car using time period correct parts with one main purpose, smoke small block cars, and go BB hunting as if it was still the mid 70-s. Quote:
Any small block I've built has been stealthy looking. Stock 340 intakes, stock valve covers, maybe a set of headers and that's it. A six pack blows the stealth factor.
There's something about a stock looking smallblock that you shift at 7500 and blows away big blocks that just makes it.
Sheldon
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: 383man]
#1190062
03/04/12 10:08 AM
03/04/12 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
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The small-block intake does`nt flow well,its not the carbs. its the manifold. The RB one is pretty good IMO. 
70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: lewtot184]
#1190063
03/04/12 01:05 PM
03/04/12 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Six packs are expensive already- but then to be easily tunable you have to pony up additonal $$ for the metering blocks with replacable screw in jets. I ran the Edelbrock CH-28 with 2 500cfm Edelbrock carbs on my Challengers. The entire setup was about $1000 less than the 6 pack. I plan on an Offenhauser 2x4 on my 360. Mutliple under hood carbs do not have the lead in performance but look COOL AND ERA CORRECT!!
you don't have to buy a bunch of junk or gadjets to make a 6-pak work. usually thats the worst thing a guy can do.
mine came straight out of the box and onto the car. Only thing I did was up the jetting, up the squirtters and went w/ purple outboard springs. When I 1st did it everybody (here) told me I was going to need this billet piece and drill this out and I'd need to upgrade this. Glad I didn't listen.
they seem to work just fine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoCaHhiqShI
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1190064
03/04/12 01:54 PM
03/04/12 01:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
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A properly tuned small block six pak will eat your 4 bbl whatever. Go git yer [sic] 4 bbl whatever and get ready to be thrashed and humiliated. The problem is reading and comprehension when it comes to the proper tuning of a six pak. How much more basic does the tuning guide have be written to get proper results? Well first the guide would have to be read...Thermoquads have the same problem. Lack of patience is the biggest factor. A properly tuned six pak has a secondary hit that no 4 bbl can beat. If you want to fight with a six pak you had better bring a thermoquad and my money is still on the six pak. Btw a thermoquad and a six pak have small primaries and HUGE secondaries...go figure As far as flow...you can port and massage the passageways these days to improve flow. You will have to find some better arguments to override real world results 
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1190065
03/04/12 03:17 PM
03/04/12 03:17 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
Robbins
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
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I need to get back on tuning mine, I thought that I had it, but now my center carb isn't acting right. I can't adjust idle circuit. The outer's I can.
I like this post. Not to steal this post, but has anybody ran the newer Indy Cylinder Heads intake on the small block..........is it better than the stock one as far as six pack stuff goes for SB's?
I have to agree that the A-body has been the cheaper Mopar, now a-days the early A is the only cheap one. That being said I love darn near all mopar cars, trucks from the 30's to the newer stuff.
Like shorty, I have some 80's trucks, an 80's RC too and really like them.
Moparlee
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: Robbins]
#1190066
03/04/12 03:42 PM
03/04/12 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Bench racing "mine vs yours" will lead to nothing more than into a never ending no winner arguement. Regardless of ones tuning abilities the bottom line is that the results of a head to head comparison between a good 4 barrel/intake combo vs. a well tuned Six Pack combo will vary with nearly every engine/car combo, both have their merits. It's safe to say that any advantage will be marginally small in either direction (speaking street/pump gas setups here) it's all about the fuel requirements of any particular engine and what one is willing to spend (time/money) experimenting trying to ring out every last HP possible from their particular combo.
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Re: Why no smallblock 6 packs ?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1190067
03/05/12 12:23 PM
03/05/12 12:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Regardless of ones tuning abilities the bottom line is that the results of a head to head comparison between a good 4 barrel/intake combo vs. a well tuned Six Pack combo will vary with nearly every engine/car combo, both have their merits.
It's safe to say that any advantage will be marginally small in either direction (speaking street/pump gas setups here)
True, BUT you are missing one important pce of the puzzle that people often seem to forget in all these 6 pack "discussions"; The 4bbls and manifolds AREN'T stock in these comparisons.
Now, I'm not a small block guy and perhaps the factory 340 4bbl intake and carb are better pces than those used on a 440, but as far as the big block stuff goes, the 6 pack performs at the very top with the best of any AFTERMARKET 4bbl setups on a 450hbp street motor. It just works........I'd LOVE to have had a stock 440hp 4bbl carb and intake setup tested on that Hot Rod manifold test but oh well.
In any case, I agree with your comments but the 6 pack setup deserves all the credit it gets for a STOCK induction setup IMO. Hard to beat and the only real downside is cost.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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