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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1162316
01/22/12 02:51 PM
01/22/12 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Can't believe it ran as well as it did. As mentioned before, you're going to
Pick up substantial gains. 
I really doubt it will pick up much at all... JMO
I agree,,if it picks up at all it will be negligable. 
How could it NOT pick up when these issues are corrected??? 
If he were to just correct the problem it wouldnt
change much at all... I've been there... but he is
regrinding the cam so we wont know for sure
 if the heads are a restriction then no amount of more valve lift is going to make a profound improvement, my present heads are just that, I installed a cam with more lift and duration and didn't pick up anything, so I went back to the origional grind. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: dartman366]
#1162317
01/22/12 03:49 PM
01/22/12 03:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,396
Pa
Hot 340
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Can't believe it ran as well as it did. As mentioned before, you're going to
Pick up substantial gains.
I really doubt it will pick up much at all... JMO
I agree,,if it picks up at all it will be negligable.
How could it NOT pick up when these issues are corrected???
If he were to just correct the problem it wouldnt
change much at all... I've been there... but he is
regrinding the cam so we wont know for sure
if the heads are a restriction then no amount of more valve lift is going to make a profound improvement, my present heads are just that, I installed a cam with more lift and duration and didn't pick up anything, so I went back to the origional grind.
But he's running a W8 head, they are not dead at .600+ like most smallblock heads. Just the contrary.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1162319
01/22/12 04:54 PM
01/22/12 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
emarine01
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nc
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Found three rockers with so much lash that I am surprised I didn't loose the push rods or lash caps. I stopped with the feeler gauges when I was around .085" so they were real loose. I knew something was wrong when I pulled the intake and found three ports dark when the other five were clean. All three were intake rockers on those "dark" cylinders. I was well past the point where I should have run the valves, but this was a surprise since there was nothing to indicate anything was wrong. No noise, misfire, popping....nothing. I will be replacing the lifters anyway, but what else could have suffered? Can't believe this just went a mid 5.8 in this condition.
What is the definition of < dark cyls > & what would cause this from too much intake lash?
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1162320
01/22/12 05:13 PM
01/22/12 05:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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"Usually" anything on to intake side will hurt the performance more than it will on the exhaust side. A friend of mine bent 8 exhaust pushrods in a stocker on a run a few years ago and the car still made a good pass. He loaded up took the car home to get and early start on repairs. He was so excited to see what it would run after the repairs. Well guess what, it ran almost the same. The only thing that baffles me is how someone didn't hear Brian's and say something. That had to be clicking pretty loud. 
I am pretty in tune with hearing any changes to the engine and there was just nothing to indicate what I found. Everything still sounded very good. Response was good, etc..
I would have expected it to pick up a little with corrected lash, but not a big change....maybe .05 to .07 in the 1/8th?
There will be alot of changes made on this round. Heads are getting new ports that make them viable to 8400 RPM (current "original" Coleman port is all done at about 7300 RPM with my displacement). I am also only opening the intake valve a net amount after lash and deflection of just over .700". Cam will be re-ground to take the net lift over .800". Jim is right, there should be a sizable gain from these changes and I am putting alot of faith into the work being done.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: emarine01]
#1162321
01/22/12 05:17 PM
01/22/12 05:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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Found three rockers with so much lash that I am surprised I didn't loose the push rods or lash caps. I stopped with the feeler gauges when I was around .085" so they were real loose. I knew something was wrong when I pulled the intake and found three ports dark when the other five were clean. All three were intake rockers on those "dark" cylinders. I was well past the point where I should have run the valves, but this was a surprise since there was nothing to indicate anything was wrong. No noise, misfire, popping....nothing. I will be replacing the lifters anyway, but what else could have suffered? Can't believe this just went a mid 5.8 in this condition.
What is the definition of < dark cyls > & what would cause this from too much intake lash?
The cylinders with the loose intake valve lash all had intake ports that were dark in color....I assume from being overly rich or fuel pooling in the port from nowhere to go? The other ports were as clean as a new build.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1162322
01/22/12 05:21 PM
01/22/12 05:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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Brian I forget what rockers you are running but some
of the adjusters are junk and will pull the threads
out and were soft so the push rods beat the cups...
also as said check the dia of the cup to the PR ball...
3/8 balls DONT FIT on any of the cups
Running 1.7 ratio Jesel.Never heard many bad stories about their adjusters.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1162323
01/22/12 07:08 PM
01/22/12 07:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
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Mansfield, Tx
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You going to do any racing this year? Didn't see you at all in 2011.
2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ
#4 in the World IHRA Stock
2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ
14x Track Champ
All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1162325
01/22/12 08:09 PM
01/22/12 08:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
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There will be alot of changes made on this round. Heads are getting new ports that make them viable to 8400 RPM (current "original" Coleman port is all done at about 7300 RPM with my displacement). I am also only opening the intake valve a net amount after lash and deflection of just over .700". Cam will be re-ground to take the net lift over .800".
Now we're talkin'. 
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: Jacob Pitt]
#1162326
01/22/12 11:28 PM
01/22/12 11:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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You going to do any racing this year? Didn't see you at all in 2011.
As soon as I get pieces back and the engine back together we will be out there. I hope to run a bunch this year. You are right though, only went out once last year for a quick test that resulted in some new bests but no data for the logger. 
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1162327
01/22/12 11:29 PM
01/22/12 11:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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Quote:
There will be alot of changes made on this round. Heads are getting new ports that make them viable to 8400 RPM (current "original" Coleman port is all done at about 7300 RPM with my displacement). I am also only opening the intake valve a net amount after lash and deflection of just over .700". Cam will be re-ground to take the net lift over .800".
Now we're talkin'.
Gonna be radically different for sure.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: emarine01]
#1162328
01/22/12 11:34 PM
01/22/12 11:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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Overly rich... fuel pooling in the port... I think this is a interesting observation but not sure its the cause of a dark intake port... JMO... Dark intake tracts are usually from exhaust gasses , yes?... I am not trying to bust your chops on this one just trying to learn 
I'm only taking guesses at the cause since they concided with the loose valve lash.I'm not sure what the actual cause is. I am open to suggestions as to the cause.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1162329
01/23/12 12:26 AM
01/23/12 12:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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Lynchburg, VA
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Check your rocker arms. May be a broke bearing or more than likely your adjuster backed off. If you run the proper pushrod length you can only back the adjuster off 1/2 to 3/4 a turn and they bottom out in the rocker arm.
Then again maybe you have some bent valves. That would explain the black in the intake runners.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: Leon441]
#1162330
01/23/12 12:41 AM
01/23/12 12:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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Quote:
Check your rocker arms. May be a broke bearing or more than likely your adjuster backed off. If you run the proper pushrod length you can only back the adjuster off 1/2 to 3/4 a turn and they bottom out in the rocker arm.
Then again maybe you have some bent valves. That would explain the black in the intake runners.
Leon
We will check the valves when everything else is checked, but that would make sense.
The adjusters were still tight and they were only able to be backed off the amount you suggested.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....
[Re: LA360]
#1162333
01/23/12 10:35 AM
01/23/12 10:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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When did you check the lash prior to discovering this?
About 40 passes ago.
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Re: Tore into the engine tonight....**UPDATE**
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1162335
01/26/12 11:08 PM
01/26/12 11:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,195
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,195
PA.
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Sorry to hear that Brian. I hope you caught it before it did major damage.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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