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Educate me about vacuum pumps #1127036
12/04/11 08:12 AM
12/04/11 08:12 AM
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Finalnd, Perkele
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jyrki Offline OP
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Going through friends 528 Wedge with CNC ported Indy heads. He bought it complete a couple of years ago from states, and it really hasn't performed according to expectations. I'll tear it a part and check it, and while at it he wants to install avacuum pump since the engine was designed to use one. What all is needed, and where to get the parts from? As far as I've understood,you aim at certain vacuum and limit it with aomekind of a leak retriction? Any good links or articles?l


Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: jyrki] #1127037
12/04/11 12:02 PM
12/04/11 12:02 PM
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nc
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earthmover Offline
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i'll be watching this ..

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: jyrki] #1127038
12/04/11 12:04 PM
12/04/11 12:04 PM
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SO. CAL.
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70blackfish Offline
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I know there not good for the street, removes oil from the wrist pins.
aerospace components has them.

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: 70blackfish] #1127039
12/04/11 12:12 PM
12/04/11 12:12 PM
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Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
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Quote:

I know there not good for the street, removes oil from the wrist pins.




According to the guys on YB, that's on old wive's tale....... Consensus is the more vacuum, the better.....


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Big Squeeze] #1127040
12/04/11 12:24 PM
12/04/11 12:24 PM
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Upstate NY
Bigcube Offline
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I have a vacuum regulator that allows about 12" of vacuum. I will pull about 2 oz of oil per pass. I tested with and without the pump on Dwayne's dyno and saw 25-30 hp gain with the pump. Well worth the effort. It will also stop seeping type oil leaks around pan oil pan rails of intake valley so it's a win/win addition.


Jim

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: jyrki] #1127041
12/04/11 12:27 PM
12/04/11 12:27 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Going through friends 528 Wedge with CNC ported Indy heads. He bought it complete a couple of years ago from states, and it really hasn't performed according to expectations. I'll tear it a part and check it, and while at it he wants to install avacuum pump since the engine was designed to use one. What all is needed, and where to get the parts from? As far as I've understood,you aim at certain vacuum and limit it with aomekind of a leak retriction? Any good links or articles?l




There are a few companies that make a decent vac pump...
Moroso makes 2 versions a 3 vane and 4 vane... I
have a Aerospace unit and I dont care for it(doesnt
pull enough)... with all the reading I did I found
that you dont want to exceed 14"HG or you get into
wrist pin oil issues... I pull 12"HG with just my
dry sump pump.... what do you need... the pump, lines
(I used braided lines), a good baffle in the valve
cover and a puke tank to catch any oil that the pump
pulls out(get a good one...get one that enters near the
bottom... if it inters near the top it sprays oil/mist
into the exiting air flow path and out the breather)...
then the only other thing would be the check valve
that would be mounted to the other valve cover...
some are adjustable, some fixed for the setting..
back to the pump... Moroso says the 4 vane was race
only and will pull more than 14", there is another
good pump(forget the name but its Motorsport something)
and they sell all the parts... also you need a drive
system... crank pulley and belt.... some but not all
of the pumps come with some sort of mounting....
thats about all I can think of

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Big Squeeze] #1127042
12/04/11 12:30 PM
12/04/11 12:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Quote:

I know there not good for the street, removes oil from the wrist pins.




According to the guys on YB, that's on old wive's tale....... Consensus is the more vacuum, the better.....




Not according to Rehere Morrison(sp) thats where I
read my info from

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Bigcube] #1127043
12/04/11 12:34 PM
12/04/11 12:34 PM
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glendora, ca.
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Deepockets Offline
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i have the moroso on the 528ci. i keep it conservitive at 10 lbs vacuum. you wont be sorry, except for the $900.00 bill you'll be out.


Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Deepockets] #1127044
12/04/11 01:19 PM
12/04/11 01:19 PM
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Quebec, Canada
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Diablo Offline
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for what you have I think a 3 vane moroso will do the job just fine. When we had our 496ci we ran a 3 vane and it pulled 12 with just the tap of the throttle. No need to buy a big pump if all it means is your vacuum limiter is always letting fresh air into the engine to limit you to 12.
We used a Moroso limiter also. I think it had 4 settings using little washers. From 8 to 16.

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Diablo] #1127045
12/04/11 02:23 PM
12/04/11 02:23 PM
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North Sweden
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RT540 Offline
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I have brand new 3-vane moroso with bracket and v-belt pulley, that you can make me an offer, or maybe something to trade for.

Some like to spend a little more and buys the enhanced moroso unit, donīt know how much better it is.

I had a plan to sell the vacuum pump with the 3-stage Weaver dry sump pump, as it is a spur gear pump, it needs more vacuum. The Weaver pump was rebuilt by Weaver Br. I had it sent to them.

with the Autoverdi 6-stage, I will not need an extra pump for vacuum.

Tom

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: RT540] #1127046
12/04/11 02:45 PM
12/04/11 02:45 PM
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Alberta Canada
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Instead of pulling vacuuum from the valve cover you can pull from the fuel pump location as there is a limited amount of oil splashing from this location.

6950279-IMG_0817.jpg (329 downloads)

76 Duster work in progress
Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1127047
12/04/11 03:23 PM
12/04/11 03:23 PM
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Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I know there not good for the street, removes oil from the wrist pins.




According to the guys on YB, that's on old wive's tale....... Consensus is the more vacuum, the better.....




Not according to Rehere Morrison(sp) thats where I
read my info from





Word is that the reason guys were hurting wrist pins back when that theory was started is because the pins were too weak and flexing.....not because of lack of oil..... Check out this link;

Vacuum thread on Yellow Bullet........


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: jyrki] #1127048
12/04/11 03:28 PM
12/04/11 03:28 PM
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lower left, ca.
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hookNgone Offline
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A 3 vane pump is more then adequate for wet sump engines..Ring seal, oil pan design, and overall sealing of engine components directly affect vacuum performance.

Over 14" of vacuum is not recommended due to piston skirt and wrist pin lubrication. Be sure to watch the oil pressure when on dyno, as it has been known to drop substantially with too much neg pressure.

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: hookNgone] #1127049
12/04/11 06:26 PM
12/04/11 06:26 PM
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Melbourne , Australia
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Most of the decent engines I have come across ran a Star Machine Vacuum pump. They sell everything you will need. For the budget conscious racer there are the GZ Motorsports kits which work quite well also. I will be looking at one of their kits for my ride.
For a race engine, a vac pump is a worthwhile investment.


Alan Jones
Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: LA360] #1127050
12/04/11 06:43 PM
12/04/11 06:43 PM
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Up North eh'
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This was an old article that I saved as a favourite..

http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/vacuum-pumps.html

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Stroked_Hemi] #1127051
12/04/11 07:27 PM
12/04/11 07:27 PM
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Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
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It's funny how many people say not to run too much vacuum because it'll pull too much oil from the wrist pins but none have personaly experienced it......or tried any higher.....even the guy that posted in the link above said he's ran as much as 20" without any problems but was scared so he lowered it back down to 15"......


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Big Squeeze] #1127052
12/04/11 07:38 PM
12/04/11 07:38 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

It's funny how many people say not to run too much vacuum because it'll pull too much oil from the wrist pins but none have personaly experienced it......or tried any higher.....even the guy that posted in the link above said he's ran as much as 20" without any problems but was scared so he lowered it back down to 15"......




On your link to YB the guy was running high vac
on nitrous applications where you have greater blow-by
and the vac was dropping during the run... he was actually
starting at 25"hg but ending the run at about 15"hg
so by rights he isnt running high vac

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: jyrki] #1127053
12/04/11 08:14 PM
12/04/11 08:14 PM
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Kokomo, IN
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If you're looking at the Moroso pumps, I think you should give this a look GZ VP104 Super Pro pump seems like a better deal to me, more capacity and less cost. Check it out http://www.gzmotorsports.com/compare.html

Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1127054
12/04/11 08:18 PM
12/04/11 08:18 PM
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Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
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Quote:



On your link to YB the guy was running high vac
on nitrous applications where you have greater blow-by
and the vac was dropping during the run... he was actually
starting at 25"hg but ending the run at about 15"hg
so by rights he isnt running high vac





True dat......

Read this thread on YB too.......... .....He says they run 25-26" on wet sumps, dry sumps, and naturally aspirated motors too....... and "We dont see any oiling trouble with high 25+ inches..old wives tale ALL PS car teams run all they can get
It makes more power the more you make it. The more you start with the more you have in reserve.
Starting with the highest you can get will not be enough at the finish with all the guns on.
The rings will stay sealed better and longer with 20" anything

Free, secret tip of the day
".....

It's all food for thought......I'd like to hear from someone that's been running a sorted out combo and they went up on vacuum and immediately started having wrist pin galling problems.....


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Educate me about vacuum pumps [Re: Big Squeeze] #1127055
12/04/11 09:01 PM
12/04/11 09:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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It's all food for thought......I'd like to hear from someone that's been running a sorted out combo and they went up on vacuum and immediately started having wrist pin galling problems.....




I'll still use the data that Rehere Morrison uses,
thanks anyways... my dry sump pumps pulls 12"
so thats good enough for me... that way I dont
need to buy anything else

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