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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: BradH]
#1126046
12/02/11 02:21 PM
12/02/11 02:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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One of the best tuning tools I`ve purchased. Shows me how deadly rich a Dominator is during cruise mode on the street, shows how horrible my tuning skills were before it and my wide open power came alive.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1126048
12/02/11 02:34 PM
12/02/11 02:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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jetting at the track and reading plugs way better to me. i curse the LM1 more than i praise it
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: BradH]
#1126050
12/02/11 02:53 PM
12/02/11 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Wow, so far we've got... 1  , one 1  , and one  vote. I love this place!  FWIW, the kit I bought 2 years ago is a single-channel LM-2 deal which I was planning to set up by putting the O2 bung in my x-pipe to try and get something of an "averaged" reading from both banks.
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1126051
12/02/11 02:58 PM
12/02/11 02:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
jetting at the track and reading plugs way better to me. i curse the LM1 more than i praise it
Interesting.........  prior to my dyno tune(wide band readings) I went low 10`s then got my first 9 so,.........
you dont have 3 carbs and an 18" long plenum to deal with.
also, i dont see how a wideband tells you where your motor will make the most power, the dyno did but not the wideband
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1126052
12/02/11 03:12 PM
12/02/11 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
also, i dont see how a wideband tells you where your motor will make the most power, the dyno did but not the wideband
Well, what I'm hoping to use it for is to tune for a reasonably flat air-fuel ratio across the WOT RPM range, but let my on-track jet tests still determine what the engine "wants" to make the most power.
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: BradH]
#1126053
12/02/11 03:12 PM
12/02/11 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Wow, so far we've got... 1 , one 1 , and one vote. I love this place!
FWIW, the kit I bought 2 years ago is a single-channel LM-2 deal which I was planning to set up by putting the O2 bung in my x-pipe to try and get something of an "averaged" reading from both banks.
its amazing your car can even run without one let alone drive a couple hours to the track, run a 10.50 @3700lbs and drive home
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1126055
12/02/11 03:29 PM
12/02/11 03:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
It is a tool like any other tool, the end user determines how effective it becomes Mine has help me immensily  Buy a dual wideban with the ability to read RPM and store data so you can transfer it to a laptop or some other devise to read and analyse it later instead of having to focus on the gauge while driving, racing or in traffic  
I agree! Add this with some experienced advice from guys like Cab, and it really makes a big difference in performance and tuning. It's a must have device in one form or another.
I got the FAST dual band with a portable handheld reader, but I don't recommend it. Get the type Cab describes above. The reason is you can't slow down the playback, jump to a particular spot or transfer the log on a laptop to study it in relation to RPM etc.
It's essencially provides you with a real time reading that allows you to capture one log at a time. It only plays it back at real time too, and the changes to the A/F ratio redings are fast. Especially in a fast stick shift car.... It works, but it's not ideal. It helped me in spite of it's shortcomings.
I have been able to successfully tune using it, but it could be a lot nicer and easier to dump the data in a laptop. The Fast dualband is dated technology.
FAST says they make a software & attachment to allow the hand-held one I have transfer the logs to a laptop, but I couldn't get it to work and their Tech Service regarding it is abysmal!
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1126056
12/02/11 04:02 PM
12/02/11 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
its amazing your car can even run without one let alone drive a couple hours to the track, run a 10.50 @3700lbs and drive home
How is that so amazing? 
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: BradH]
#1126057
12/02/11 04:16 PM
12/02/11 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
its amazing your car can even run without one let alone drive a couple hours to the track, run a 10.50 @3700lbs and drive home
How is that so amazing?
just making a point that you obviously pay attention to how your car is running to run as well as it does. IMO experience with the wideband, it will not show lean cylinder to rich cylinders. my six pack has jetting all over the place. i do what i have to do to make all cylinders look equal. a wideband just wont tell you that unless you have bungs in all cylinders.
as for guys washing down cylinder walls, sure, i know many bracket racers that slap something together and as long as they can run consistantly thats all they care about. that makes me crazy. puffing black smoke driving around the pits and they dont care. then i see other guys times pickup as the weather gets hotter because there car is so lean.
i'm not saying not to have one, i have one in my car and its ON every time i go for a drive. but can it fine tune a crossram or tunnel ram? it may help a little but you wont get your tune right unless you look at plugs. if you only use an wideband to tune, you could have lean cyl and rich cyl and not know what is going on at all
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1126058
12/02/11 04:39 PM
12/02/11 04:39 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,385
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,385
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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just making a point that you obviously pay attention to how your car is running to run as well as it does. IMO experience with the wideband, it will not show lean cylinder to rich cylinders. my six pack has jetting all over the place. i do what i have to do to make all cylinders look equal. a wideband just wont tell you that unless you have bungs in all cylinders.
as for guys washing down cylinder walls, sure, i know many bracket racers that slap something together and as long as they can run consistantly thats all they care about. that makes me crazy. puffing black smoke driving around the pits and they dont care. then i see other guys times pickup as the weather gets hotter because there car is so lean.
i'm not saying not to have one, i have one in my car and its ON every time i go for a drive. but can it fine tune a crossram or tunnel ram? it may help a little but you wont get your tune right unless you look at plugs. if you only use an wideband to tune, you could have lean cyl and rich cyl and not know what is going on at all
Actually a good point. A wide band looks at the average, and not each cylinder and obviuosly you want to stay within a range, but there are those of us that have intakes and carb set-ups that not all cyclinders are equal, and this is where more work is required. I try and stick with intakes that don't require a tone of work to get the plugs to look even. For the most part, on a single plane intake and only one carb, the plugs should be farely close...If not, there is more work to do than just tuning the carb for best average A/F. There is more to it than that. Most bracket racers are not satisfied with "runs ok" and we like all our plugs even, but a smidge lean. Our temp swings here in one day can be too much to want to change jets every time the weather changes.
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: AndyF]
#1126059
12/02/11 04:46 PM
12/02/11 04:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 325
Greenville, WI
Big B
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 325
Greenville, WI
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Quote:
I wouldn't bother building a car these days without a wideband in it. The things are so cheap it is crazy not to use them. I see engines every year that are ruined by guys who have their carbs jetted too rich. The extra fuel washes down the guides or the rings and the motors get toasted. The engine builder I work with sees at least one motor a year that gets killed by a bad tune.
That's exactly what happened to my motor prior to getting a wideband. I have a 3 circuit dominator. I was cruising in the 11:1 range...can you say rich as hell. Had to install a power valve, jet down the primaries 8 sizes, restrict the tranfer slots down to .063, and jet down the intermediate jets to .020. Now it cruises at 14.5-15:1 and the plugs look perfect.
So to me a wideband was priceless!
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: Big B]
#1126060
12/02/11 04:51 PM
12/02/11 04:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't bother building a car these days without a wideband in it. The things are so cheap it is crazy not to use them. I see engines every year that are ruined by guys who have their carbs jetted too rich. The extra fuel washes down the guides or the rings and the motors get toasted. The engine builder I work with sees at least one motor a year that gets killed by a bad tune.
That's exactly what happened to my motor prior to getting a wideband. I have a 3 circuit dominator. I was cruising in the 11:1 range...can you say rich as hell. Had to install a power valve, jet down the primaries 8 sizes, restrict the tranfer slots down to .063, and jet down the intermediate jets to .020. Now it cruises at 14.5-15:1 and the plugs look perfect.
So to me a wideband was priceless!
so you couldnt tell there was an issue looking at the plugs before that?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: Dragula]
#1126061
12/02/11 04:58 PM
12/02/11 04:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I like the wide band but at the track I use the MPH for my WOT setting then check that with the wide band not the other way around... the wide band is useful in the mid range 
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1126062
12/02/11 06:03 PM
12/02/11 06:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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I really like my wideband! I think its a great tool.
Mopar Performance
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: moparniac]
#1126063
12/02/11 07:35 PM
12/02/11 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
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I can't imagine ever going back to tuning without one...... The "look" of the plugs only tells you so much.......just like that number the O2 spits out only tells you so much....It shows lean and rich stumbles and you INSTANTLY know it's a lean OR rich stumble, instead of guessing and spending DAYS trying to dial it in....I just thought I had some of my cars dialed in, until I hooked my LM1 up!! lol  You can turn just ONE of the six idle mixuture screws on a Six Pack and SEE it on the O2 that's in just one pipe.........There's NO WAY reading plugs will tell you that..... You can also see when your PV opens up........you can watch the motor get leaner as you tip in, then watch it get instantly rich......Plugs won't tell you that and the ass-dyno isn't that accurate........ If it's a race only car that has to only idle and go WOT, you don't really need it (but it can help)........but for anything street driven, IMHO, it's a must-have...... 
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
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Re: How beneficial has wide-band O2 been to your tuning?
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#1126064
12/02/11 07:44 PM
12/02/11 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
I can't imagine ever going back to tuning without one...... The "look" of the plugs only tells you so much.......just like that number the O2 spits out only tells you so much....It shows lean and rich stumbles and you INSTANTLY know it's a lean OR rich stumble, instead of guessing and spending DAYS trying to dial it in....I just thought I had some of my cars dialed in, until I hooked my LM1 up!! lol
You can turn just ONE of the six idle mixuture screws on a Six Pack and SEE it on the O2 that's in just one pipe.........There's NO WAY reading plugs will tell you that.....
You can also see when you're PV opens up........you can watch the motor get leaner as you tip in, then watch it get instantly rich......Plugs won't tell you that and the ass-dyno isn't that accurate........
If it's a race only car that has to only idle and go WOT, you don't really need it (but it can help)........but for anything street driven, IMHO, it's a must-have......
how have you applied this to bracket racing? I guess I am one of those guys that don't give a flip whats going on as long as the car repeats lap after lap. that's what wins races/money not having a perfect tune. I could care less about being politically correct. I give mine what it wants to make it run the number. but I would like to know what the LM1 says just from curiosity. bring your dang gizmo down and spend a day at the track
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