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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: wrenchinrandy]
#1109896
11/11/11 09:34 AM
11/11/11 09:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
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A reliable, 700hp first project is a pretty good start  How much HP a turbo is capable of is only 1 aspect of sizing it. If we were to plot Randy's engine on a map it would probably push off the map to the right and low (as mine does). Most big blocks will push off both a compressor and turbine map hard to the right and low. That turbo might be capable of 600hp, but to do that it's expecting a 3:1 pressure ratio at 1/2 the lbs/min that Randy is pushing through it.
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: turbobitt]
#1109897
11/14/11 12:46 PM
11/14/11 12:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Furious70 I was looking at your build and it appears that your turbo is not a 60-1 compressor but maybe a 60 Trim wheel which is different. You Reference a turbocoupe turbo and would not have a 60mm wheel. I can see that this turbo is smaller than I thought. Allan G. Edit - I'm confusing Wrenchinandy set=up with Furious70, sorry.
This is the part that confuses me... when they say
60mm trim wheel VS a 60-1 ... isnt a 60-1 a 60mm
housing(inlet)... I need to get better familiarized
with the terminaligy
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1109898
11/14/11 12:59 PM
11/14/11 12:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
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Yes, mine are not 60mm wheels, they are 60trim wheels. If you look at the common compressor map sites you'll see 50 and 60 trim wheels, super 60, and then 60-1 I think, all progressively larger.
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: furious70]
#1109899
11/14/11 01:44 PM
11/14/11 01:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
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Quote:
Yes, mine are not 60mm wheels, they are 60trim wheels. If you look at the common compressor map sites you'll see 50 and 60 trim wheels, super 60, and then 60-1 I think, all progressively larger.
60 Trim and 60mm wheels do not mean the same thing. The trim is a ratio between inducer and exducer of the same wheel. Example,
Trim = (minor diameter / major diameter) ^2 * 100
Here is another example using real numbers. My turbine has an exducer of 89mm and the inducer is 96.5mm. This would make the trim 85. So, some may refer this to a 89mm 85 trim wheel.
The 60mm is uasually the measurement of the compressor inducer.
I did a quick search and found this link that has some definitions.
http://www.turbominivan.com/tech/turbo201.htm
Allan G.
Last edited by turbobitt; 11/14/11 01:52 PM.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: CW25]
#1109901
11/23/11 08:15 PM
11/23/11 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I'm looking at a pair of t-61 t-4s with a comp wheel .70 A/R and the turbine side of .68... I think these will be over kill for what I want
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: turbobitt]
#1109904
11/24/11 12:03 AM
11/24/11 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm looking at a pair of t-61 t-4s with a comp wheel
.70 A/R and the turbine side of .68... I think these
will be over kill for what I want
I'm by no means a "Twin" expert but you may want to consider more A/R on the exhaust side like .83.
FYI - The compressor A/R doesn't really matter and is usually not an option to change.
Allan G.
Ok... from what I've read, MOST end up changing the
turbine side A/R anyways because you never seem to
get it right the first time BUT I will look for a
something closer to a .86... even reading in the book
Maximum Boost he doesnt really explain it very well
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1109905
11/24/11 12:13 PM
11/24/11 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Where does the P trim fall in the lines of the A/R ratio... is it in the .86 area? I see some with P, Q and some other letters
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: turbobitt]
#1109908
11/25/11 01:06 PM
11/25/11 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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Quote:
Quote:
Where does the P trim fall in the lines of the A/R
ratio... is it in the .86 area? I see some with P,
Q and some other letters
"P" and "Q" trim refers to the turbine wheels. The "P" trim is an old school wheel with the "Q" trim being a little bigger and newer.
The Housing A/R is independent of the turbine wheel. Both wheels can be had with a variety of A/R ratio housings. But, the housing would need to match the wheel size.
Allan G.
P trim turbines are the most common of them all. Q trim wheels are a larger version of the p trims. The newest version is the gtq. Only available in large shaft dimensions though. In the attached pic you can see how much bigger the gtq wheel is compared to an old p trim. Even with its increased size, the turbos spooled faster with the increased shaft torque and free flow these turbine wheels impart. I used the same exhaust housing from the p trims,(turbonetics 1.30 a/r) I machined them to fit the larger gtq turbine wheels. If you start with a p trim housing, you can do some cool stuff with tuning the spool rate. The p trim housing has a narrower slot in it. If you leave it as narrow as possible, and still get the gtq to fit it spools VERY fast, but at a cost of max flow/power. I kept widening the slot to get my backpressure down. I actually ended up with a slot wider than the wheel tip height. Not something I would suggest to most users, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
As far as exhaust a/r housing decoding... The simplest explaination to what is going on here is this. A higher number will direct exhaust flow at the turbine wheel at an angle more directed at the center of the wheel (higher flow), where a lower number will direct exhaust flow more at the tips of the wheel (higher shaft torque, less flow).
As stated earlier, compressor a/r is a non issue, as most are matched with wheel size and have little effect on output.
Last edited by TRENDZ; 11/25/11 01:27 PM.
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: TRENDZ]
#1109909
11/25/11 01:17 PM
11/25/11 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Where does the P trim fall in the lines of the A/R
ratio... is it in the .86 area? I see some with P,
Q and some other letters
"P" and "Q" trim refers to the turbine wheels. The "P" trim is an old school wheel with the "Q" trim being a little bigger and newer.
The Housing A/R is independent of the turbine wheel. Both wheels can be had with a variety of A/R ratio housings. But, the housing would need to match the wheel size.
Allan G.
P trim turbines are the most common of them all. Q trim wheels are a larger version of the p trims. The newest version is the gtq. Only available in large shaft dimensions though. In the attached pic you can see how much bigger the gtq wheel is compared to an old p trim. Even with its increased size, the turbos spooled faster with the increased shaft torque and free flow these turbine wheels impart. I used the same exhaust housing from the p trims,(turbonetics 1.30 a/r) I machined them to fit the larger gtq turbine wheels. If you start with a p trim housing, you can do some cool stuff with tuning the spool rate. The p trim housing has a narrower slot in it. If you leave it as narrow as possible, and still get the gtq to fit it spools VERY fast, but at a cost of max flow/power. I kept widening the slot to get my backpressure down. I actually ended up with a slot wider than the wheel tip height. Not something I would suggest to most users, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Thanks guys... I'm STILL trying to figure out this
turbo stuff... I think most of my problem is the
terminology that is used by different companies and
people... I still need to figure out the hot side
and where to get the turbo's
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