|
How do you select the right cam?
#1104512
10/31/11 02:10 AM
10/31/11 02:10 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 339
California
moparbroz
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 339
California
|
I have a 440 E stamp non HP. The guy I bought it from had it in a truck that he was going to tow a trailer with. It is rebuilt and never ran. I am eventually going to run HP exhaust manifolds so that part is known. I have not yet selected a carburetor and can go any direction I need to on that. I want a streetable HP cam for my 1972 Plymouth SSP. Suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Hebrews 11:1
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1104514
10/31/11 02:57 AM
10/31/11 02:57 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 339
California
moparbroz
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 339
California
|
Stock heads and I don't know what pistons are installed. It is a non HP build I am fairly certain. It's not a magnum.
Hebrews 11:1
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: moparbroz]
#1104515
10/31/11 03:48 AM
10/31/11 03:48 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
Stock heads and I don't know what pistons are installed. It is a non HP build I am fairly certain. It's not a magnum.
So if we assume there factory pistons then there around .080" or there abouts in the hole, thats if it wasn't bored & just a re-ring, You really need to find out before picking a cam, If there factory the compressions around 8.6-8.7.1 for the 69 non HP 440. Without guessing you may need to pop a head off & check, because if they installed the run of the mill badger pistons in the cheapo rebuild kit they sit low in the deck & the compression won't be over 8.1
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1104517
10/31/11 06:04 AM
10/31/11 06:04 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
|
Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
|
call one of the cam builders.. give them all the info and they will advise the best cam for you...
I am truckless..
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1104520
10/31/11 10:23 AM
10/31/11 10:23 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 339
California
moparbroz
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 339
California
|
Sounds good. I will pull a head and get back to you guys. Thanks.
Hebrews 11:1
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: moparbroz]
#1104521
10/31/11 03:35 PM
10/31/11 03:35 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
Sounds good. I will pull a head and get back to you guys. Thanks.
Very smart move, otherwise A GOOD cam guy will want to know what the compression ratio is, if they don't, I wouldn't trust them, Tim at Bullet cams knows his stuff & he knows Mopar.
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: joedust451]
#1104522
10/31/11 03:44 PM
10/31/11 03:44 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
|
how do I pick a cam?
I call a cam maker and ask them to pick it for me!
but, they WILL want to know all the info that was already asked...compression ratio or at least the info to calculate it, like flat top, dished, valve reliefs, domed etc. on the pistons, how far in the hole, how thick the head gasket, open/closed chamber heads, etc.
plus vehicle weight, rear gear ratio, auto vs stick, power brakes vs standard, etc.
all that information is needed so they know if you need good idle vacuum for the brake booster, or if you can get away with less idle vacuum on standard brakes, where the stall will flash too, etc, so they don't give you a power band that's all used up by the time your converter finally "grabs", etc.
**Photobucket sucks**
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1104523
10/31/11 08:45 PM
10/31/11 08:45 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
joelson6
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
|
Quote:
how do I pick a cam?
I call a cam maker and ask them to pick it for me!
but, they WILL want to know all the info that was already asked...compression ratio or at least the info to calculate it, like flat top, dished, valve reliefs, domed etc. on the pistons, how far in the hole, how thick the head gasket, open/closed chamber heads, etc.
plus vehicle weight, rear gear ratio, auto vs stick, power brakes vs standard, etc.
all that information is needed so they know if you need good idle vacuum for the brake booster, or if you can get away with less idle vacuum on standard brakes, where the stall will flash too, etc, so they don't give you a power band that's all used up by the time your converter finally "grabs", etc.
general rule of thumb
.390 to .450 lift = stock
.450 to .500 lift = sweet
.500 to .570 lift = hold on
over .570 = check your shorts
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: joelson6]
#1104526
10/31/11 10:53 PM
10/31/11 10:53 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
Quote:
general rule of thumb
.390 to .450 lift = stock
.450 to .500 lift = sweet
.500 to .570 lift = hold on
over .570 = check your shorts
Huh? Comp, lunati and hughes make some hydraulic cams near .500 lift that aren't much more aggressive than a stock cam. And typically the duration that comes with a .500 lift cam vs a .570 lift cam is a huge difference. Using valve lift to describe camshaft characteristics was MP's old way of educating the ignorant back in the day.
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1104527
10/31/11 11:21 PM
10/31/11 11:21 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
joelson6
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
|
Quote:
Quote:
general rule of thumb
.390 to .450 lift = stock
.450 to .500 lift = sweet
.500 to .570 lift = hold on
over .570 = check your shorts
Huh? Comp, lunati and hughes make some hydraulic cams near .500 lift that aren't much more aggressive than a stock cam. And typically the duration that comes with a .500 lift cam vs a .570 lift cam is a huge difference. Using valve lift to describe camshaft characteristics was MP's old way of educating the ignorant back in the day.
what part of general rule of thumb didn't you get?  i figures i get a response like that. 
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: joelson6]
#1104528
11/01/11 12:19 AM
11/01/11 12:19 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
general rule of thumb
.390 to .450 lift = stock
.450 to .500 lift = sweet
.500 to .570 lift = hold on
over .570 = check your shorts
Huh? Comp, lunati and hughes make some hydraulic cams near .500 lift that aren't much more aggressive than a stock cam. And typically the duration that comes with a .500 lift cam vs a .570 lift cam is a huge difference. Using valve lift to describe camshaft characteristics was MP's old way of educating the ignorant back in the day.
what part of general rule of thumb didn't you get? i figures i get a response like that.
A general rule of thumb is something that makes some basic level of sense. Like rightey tighey, left loosey. Or 10psi oil pressure per 1000rpm. Or going with a 3" dual exhaust for anything over 475hp. Lumping a .500 lift cam together with a .570 cam does not make any sense. At all. And only serves to further confuse those who do not have a good understanding of camshaft timing fundamentals. There's way too much variation in cam design for blanket statements like yours to have any use.
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: joelson6]
#1104530
11/01/11 09:18 AM
11/01/11 09:18 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
how do I pick a cam?
I call a cam maker and ask them to pick it for me!
but, they WILL want to know all the info that was already asked...compression ratio or at least the info to calculate it, like flat top, dished, valve reliefs, domed etc. on the pistons, how far in the hole, how thick the head gasket, open/closed chamber heads, etc.
plus vehicle weight, rear gear ratio, auto vs stick, power brakes vs standard, etc.
all that information is needed so they know if you need good idle vacuum for the brake booster, or if you can get away with less idle vacuum on standard brakes, where the stall will flash too, etc, so they don't give you a power band that's all used up by the time your converter finally "grabs", etc.
general rule of thumb
.390 to .450 lift = stock
.450 to .500 lift = sweet
.500 to .570 lift = hold on
over .570 = check your shorts
lift doesn't really mean squat...it's duration that will determine the drivability....a MP .484" lift cam is a pretty wild cam, because it's ~240@.050 duration, with lots of overlap, while say the hydraulic roller in my 318 is pretty mild, with 208@050 duration, but it has .506" lift...
for a low comp, street oriented 440, I think most tend to overcam. I'd look at a lunati voodoo 60302 or 60303, using comp #911 springs on the heads. I'd probably steer towards the 60302, especially if you're looking at a stock converter, stock exhaust manifolds, and gearing in the 3.23 or so or taller.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: quick77rt ]
#1104532
11/01/11 12:50 PM
11/01/11 12:50 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
joelson6
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
|
all i can say is that you people are getting way too technical. it was states back in the beginning of the thread that not enough engine info was given to pick a SPECIFIC cam for the motor. why are we getting specific now? are we breaking this down piece by piece now ? block, heads, valve size, pistons, CR, intake, carb, exhaust, fuel system, should i keep going ? ? ? ? ? ? ? not much of this info was given, so no one can't pick out a specific cam. i understand that duration plays a huge factor in how the cam performs. but your not gonna find a cam that has .680 lift and 205* of duration at .050. remember, within a given lift, there's gonna be a certain amount of duration for the engine to run at that performance level. wake up here, your looking too deep. all i'm saying is that a GENERAL RULE OF THUMB is .390 to .450 lift = stock .450 to .500 lift = sweet .500 to .570 lift = hold on over .570 = check your shorts i stand by what i originally said  oh, PS, yea, it was meant to be funny. some of you guys are too serious, life's short, lighten up 
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: joelson6]
#1104533
11/01/11 12:57 PM
11/01/11 12:57 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
|
Quote:
all i can say is that you people are getting way too technical.
it was states back in the beginning of the thread that not enough engine info was given to pick a SPECIFIC cam for the motor. why are we getting specific now?
are we breaking this down piece by piece now ?
block,
heads,
valve size,
pistons,
CR,
intake,
carb,
exhaust,
fuel system,
should i keep going ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
not much of this info was given, so no one can't pick out a specific cam. i understand that duration plays a
huge factor in how the cam performs. but your not gonna find a cam that has .680 lift and 205* of duration
at .050. remember, within a given lift, there's gonna be a certain amount of duration for the engine to run at that
performance level. wake up here, your looking too deep.
all i'm saying is that a GENERAL RULE OF THUMB is
.390 to .450 lift = stock
.450 to .500 lift = sweet
.500 to .570 lift = hold on
over .570 = check your shorts
i stand by what i originally said
oh, PS, yea, it was meant to be funny. some of you guys are too serious, life's short, lighten up
The way I look at general rule of thumb is, it is correct most of the time.
In this case, I agree.
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: moparbroz]
#1104534
11/01/11 07:06 PM
11/01/11 07:06 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
|
Quote:
How do you select the right cam?
If you have to ask the question, you have two options: Go and do a bunch of research on your own and pick your own, or ask a professional cam supplier.
Personnally, I would not call the manufacturer.
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: BSB67]
#1104535
11/01/11 07:36 PM
11/01/11 07:36 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
|
Just go ask the "experts" on Moparts  You will probably only get half a dozen different recommendations from twenty "experts" all telling you that you don't have enough compression,heads are too small,your intake isn't right,etc... Just but an RV cam from CompCams and slap it in  Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
|
|
|
Re: How do you select the right cam?
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1104536
11/01/11 07:59 PM
11/01/11 07:59 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
The Guy ask this "HOW DO YOU SELECT THE "RIGHT" CAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My answer to this is, If you want to select the "RIGHT" cam, then do it "RIGHT"  Otherwize just say this. "WHAT CAM WILL BE "OK" A REBUILT 440 I'M NOT TO SURE WHATS IN IT!!!!!!!  I would choose an RV & play it safe.
|
|
|
|
|
, Made no lick of sense to me neither 
. I'm sure i'll get a tongue lashing for my responce 
