Moparts

How do you select the right cam?

Posted By: moparbroz

How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 06:10 AM

I have a 440 E stamp non HP. The guy I bought it from had it in a truck that he was going to tow a trailer with. It is rebuilt and never ran. I am eventually going to run HP exhaust manifolds so that part is known. I have not yet selected a carburetor and can go any direction I need to on that. I want a streetable HP cam for my 1972 Plymouth SSP. Suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 06:50 AM

Stock heads? What pistons are in it?
Posted By: moparbroz

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 06:57 AM

Stock heads and I don't know what pistons are installed. It is a non HP build I am fairly certain. It's not a magnum.
Posted By: joedust451

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 07:48 AM

Quote:

Stock heads and I don't know what pistons are installed. It is a non HP build I am fairly certain. It's not a magnum.




So if we assume there factory pistons then there around .080" or there abouts in the hole, thats if it wasn't bored & just a re-ring, You really need to find out before picking a cam, If there factory the compressions around 8.6-8.7.1 for the 69 non HP 440. Without guessing you may need to pop a head off & check, because if they installed the run of the mill badger pistons in the cheapo rebuild kit they sit low in the deck & the compression won't be over 8.1
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 08:35 AM

Not really enough info to go on. But...

I'm getting an overall vibe of somewhere between a Mopar Performance 440/383 repro High Performance cam and a Comp XE268. Carb would be a Edlebrock 750.
Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 10:04 AM

call one of the cam builders.. give them all the info and they will advise the best cam for you...
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 10:26 AM

Until you pull a head and tell us how far down in the hole your pistons are, we can't tell you jack squat for what would be a good cam. Tell us how far the pistons are down in the hole, and if they're flat tops, dome, dish or have valve reliefs. Otherwise we'll just have to assume he put in smogger 70's 440 pistons in which case you'll want a really mild cam to maintain driveability.
Posted By: dynamite

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 01:13 PM

Do yourself a favor,, ask the experts...Find a cam manufacturer , give them all the details and let them build you a cam..I use Tim at bullet cams for all my big block jobs...never been wrong yet..

Attached picture 6896081-larryscar005.JPG
Posted By: moparbroz

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 02:23 PM

Sounds good. I will pull a head and get back to you guys. Thanks.
Posted By: joedust451

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 07:35 PM

Quote:

Sounds good. I will pull a head and get back to you guys. Thanks.




Very smart move, otherwise A GOOD cam guy will want to know what the compression ratio is, if they don't, I wouldn't trust them, Tim at Bullet cams knows his stuff & he knows Mopar.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 10/31/11 07:44 PM

how do I pick a cam?

I call a cam maker and ask them to pick it for me!


but, they WILL want to know all the info that was already asked...compression ratio or at least the info to calculate it, like flat top, dished, valve reliefs, domed etc. on the pistons, how far in the hole, how thick the head gasket, open/closed chamber heads, etc.

plus vehicle weight, rear gear ratio, auto vs stick, power brakes vs standard, etc.

all that information is needed so they know if you need good idle vacuum for the brake booster, or if you can get away with less idle vacuum on standard brakes, where the stall will flash too, etc, so they don't give you a power band that's all used up by the time your converter finally "grabs", etc.
Posted By: joelson6

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 12:45 AM

Quote:

how do I pick a cam?

I call a cam maker and ask them to pick it for me!


but, they WILL want to know all the info that was already asked...compression ratio or at least the info to calculate it, like flat top, dished, valve reliefs, domed etc. on the pistons, how far in the hole, how thick the head gasket, open/closed chamber heads, etc.

plus vehicle weight, rear gear ratio, auto vs stick, power brakes vs standard, etc.

all that information is needed so they know if you need good idle vacuum for the brake booster, or if you can get away with less idle vacuum on standard brakes, where the stall will flash too, etc, so they don't give you a power band that's all used up by the time your converter finally "grabs", etc.







general rule of thumb

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 12:57 AM

Think about where you WANT the powerband. A Car with a loose converter and a driver who likes to spin a motor to 6500 can benefit from a big cam.
A tight converter and never spinning above 5000 is a TOTALLY different story.

And with power brakes I would not venture beyond 240 duration at .050. (or above 280 at .000)
I run the 60303 Lunati with power brakes and its fine with about 11 inches of vacuum (IIRC) at 750 idle.
Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 01:28 AM

the 268 -272 cams would be good choice, dont thing i would go any bigger as the power brakes would suffer
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 02:53 AM

Quote:






general rule of thumb

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts




Huh? Comp, lunati and hughes make some hydraulic cams near .500 lift that aren't much more aggressive than a stock cam. And typically the duration that comes with a .500 lift cam vs a .570 lift cam is a huge difference. Using valve lift to describe camshaft characteristics was MP's old way of educating the ignorant back in the day.
Posted By: joelson6

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 03:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:






general rule of thumb

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts




Huh? Comp, lunati and hughes make some hydraulic cams near .500 lift that aren't much more aggressive than a stock cam. And typically the duration that comes with a .500 lift cam vs a .570 lift cam is a huge difference. Using valve lift to describe camshaft characteristics was MP's old way of educating the ignorant back in the day.





what part of general rule of thumb didn't you get? i figures i get a response like that.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 04:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:






general rule of thumb

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts




Huh? Comp, lunati and hughes make some hydraulic cams near .500 lift that aren't much more aggressive than a stock cam. And typically the duration that comes with a .500 lift cam vs a .570 lift cam is a huge difference. Using valve lift to describe camshaft characteristics was MP's old way of educating the ignorant back in the day.





what part of general rule of thumb didn't you get? i figures i get a response like that.




A general rule of thumb is something that makes some basic level of sense. Like rightey tighey, left loosey. Or 10psi oil pressure per 1000rpm. Or going with a 3" dual exhaust for anything over 475hp. Lumping a .500 lift cam together with a .570 cam does not make any sense. At all. And only serves to further confuse those who do not have a good understanding of camshaft timing fundamentals. There's way too much variation in cam design for blanket statements like yours to have any use.
Posted By: joedust451

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 04:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:






general rule of thumb

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts




Huh? Comp, lunati and hughes make some hydraulic cams near .500 lift that aren't much more aggressive than a stock cam. And typically the duration that comes with a .500 lift cam vs a .570 lift cam is a huge difference. Using valve lift to describe camshaft characteristics was MP's old way of educating the ignorant back in the day.





what part of general rule of thumb didn't you get? i figures i get a response like that.




A general rule of thumb is something that makes some basic level of sense. Like rightey tighey, left loosey. Or 10psi oil pressure per 1000rpm. Or going with a 3" dual exhaust for anything over 475hp. Lumping a .500 lift cam together with a .570 cam does not make any sense. At all. And only serves to further confuse those who do not have a good understanding of camshaft timing fundamentals. There's way too much variation in cam design for blanket statements like yours to have any use.




I agree wth you Datona, I laughed after reading his 1st. responce , Made no lick of sense to me neither . I'm sure i'll get a tongue lashing for my responce
Posted By: patrick

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 01:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

how do I pick a cam?

I call a cam maker and ask them to pick it for me!


but, they WILL want to know all the info that was already asked...compression ratio or at least the info to calculate it, like flat top, dished, valve reliefs, domed etc. on the pistons, how far in the hole, how thick the head gasket, open/closed chamber heads, etc.

plus vehicle weight, rear gear ratio, auto vs stick, power brakes vs standard, etc.

all that information is needed so they know if you need good idle vacuum for the brake booster, or if you can get away with less idle vacuum on standard brakes, where the stall will flash too, etc, so they don't give you a power band that's all used up by the time your converter finally "grabs", etc.







general rule of thumb

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts




lift doesn't really mean squat...it's duration that will determine the drivability....a MP .484" lift cam is a pretty wild cam, because it's ~240@.050 duration, with lots of overlap, while say the hydraulic roller in my 318 is pretty mild, with 208@050 duration, but it has .506" lift...

for a low comp, street oriented 440, I think most tend to overcam. I'd look at a lunati voodoo 60302 or 60303, using comp #911 springs on the heads. I'd probably steer towards the 60302, especially if you're looking at a stock converter, stock exhaust manifolds, and gearing in the 3.23 or so or taller.
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 01:36 PM

Well its not explained in one post.

If you were to make a list of all the factors, then have to explain each one on that list and then break it down further there are probably books on it and just like most books, without the hands on time its still just a book.

Its much easier to spec a cam for your car you know well vs others or just filling out a general check list.
Posted By: joelson6

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 04:50 PM

all i can say is that you people are getting way too technical.

it was states back in the beginning of the thread that not enough engine info was given to pick a SPECIFIC cam for the motor. why are we getting specific now?

are we breaking this down piece by piece now ?

block,
heads,
valve size,
pistons,
CR,
intake,
carb,
exhaust,
fuel system,
should i keep going ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

not much of this info was given, so no one can't pick out a specific cam. i understand that duration plays a
huge factor in how the cam performs. but your not gonna find a cam that has .680 lift and 205* of duration
at .050. remember, within a given lift, there's gonna be a certain amount of duration for the engine to run at that
performance level. wake up here, your looking too deep.


all i'm saying is that a GENERAL RULE OF THUMB is

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts


i stand by what i originally said








oh, PS, yea, it was meant to be funny. some of you guys are too serious, life's short, lighten up
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 04:57 PM

Quote:

all i can say is that you people are getting way too technical.

it was states back in the beginning of the thread that not enough engine info was given to pick a SPECIFIC cam for the motor. why are we getting specific now?

are we breaking this down piece by piece now ?

block,
heads,
valve size,
pistons,
CR,
intake,
carb,
exhaust,
fuel system,
should i keep going ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

not much of this info was given, so no one can't pick out a specific cam. i understand that duration plays a
huge factor in how the cam performs. but your not gonna find a cam that has .680 lift and 205* of duration
at .050. remember, within a given lift, there's gonna be a certain amount of duration for the engine to run at that
performance level. wake up here, your looking too deep.


all i'm saying is that a GENERAL RULE OF THUMB is

.390 to .450 lift = stock

.450 to .500 lift = sweet

.500 to .570 lift = hold on

over .570 = check your shorts


i stand by what i originally said








oh, PS, yea, it was meant to be funny. some of you guys are too serious, life's short, lighten up


The way I look at general rule of thumb is, it is correct most of the time.
In this case, I agree.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 11:06 PM

Quote:

How do you select the right cam?




If you have to ask the question, you have two options: Go and do a bunch of research on your own and pick your own, or ask a professional cam supplier.

Personnally, I would not call the manufacturer.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 11:36 PM

Just go ask the "experts" on Moparts You will probably only get half a dozen different recommendations from twenty "experts" all telling you that you don't have enough compression,heads are too small,your intake isn't right,etc...
Just but an RV cam from CompCams and slap it in
Gus

Attached picture 6898827-burnoutpicturegus.JPG
Posted By: joedust451

Re: How do you select the right cam? - 11/01/11 11:59 PM

The Guy ask this "HOW DO YOU SELECT THE "RIGHT" CAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My answer to this is, If you want to select the "RIGHT" cam, then do it "RIGHT"

Otherwize just say this.

"WHAT CAM WILL BE "OK" A REBUILT 440 I'M NOT TO SURE WHATS IN IT!!!!!!!

I would choose an RV & play it safe.
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