Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Todd]
#1091758
10/09/11 11:22 PM
10/09/11 11:22 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
|
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
|
Does it only happen with first gear?
Could be the sprag going out.
First thing I would do is drop the VB and do an air check to see if everything is applying as it should.
Otherwise, it could be time to open it up and 
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Todd]
#1091760
10/10/11 12:36 AM
10/10/11 12:36 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
|
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
|
Well first gear is nothing more than the rear clutches and over running clutch w/o a low band apply valve body. If the rear clutch was bad you wouldn't have 2nd or 3rd either, the car wouldn't move so this does sound like an over running clutch problem. Take it out and apart before it does more damage.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#1091763
10/10/11 08:41 AM
10/10/11 08:41 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
|
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
|
A bolt in sprag does nothing to overcome the shortcomings of the design. 
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Todd]
#1091765
10/10/11 02:51 PM
10/10/11 02:51 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,205
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,205
Bend,OR USA
|
Check the linkage and shifter adjustment, make sure the cable end will drop into the shifter arm hole in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear without forcing it. If it doesn't adjust the cable hieght and angle and so on until it does  Did you try centering the valve body on the ten bolts before torqueing it down  Little things can, and do, make the monsters arrive  I went thruogh recently when I added a blanket on my trans, I ended up having to readjust several things to get it adjusted properly   Do the simple stuff first
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1091766
10/10/11 03:08 PM
10/10/11 03:08 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
|
Quote:
Check the linkage and shifter adjustment, make sure the cable end will drop into the shifter arm hole in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear without forcing it. If it doesn't adjust the cable hieght and angle and so on until it does Did you try centering the valve body on the ten bolts before torqueing it down Little things can, and do, make the monsters arrive I went thruogh recently when I added a blanket on my trans, I ended up having to readjust several things to get it adjusted properly Do the simple stuff first
When I changed the valve body I ran all the bolts in by hand then tightend. I checked the linkage on the trans and at the shifter in every position and all lines up. The thing seemed to start doing this before I changed to the manual valve body. Thats why I cahnged it thinking that was the problem. Is it possible that the sprag is not holding all the way? And how is it that when the shifter is in first it takes off in second. Isnt there something else like a band thats needs to be applied to make second work that isnt applied in first?  
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Todd]
#1091767
10/10/11 03:14 PM
10/10/11 03:14 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
|
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
|
Yes, the front band is applied for 2nd. The determining factor though was that you said it did this with 2 different VB's. Hard to believe they would both have the same problem. But I guess anything is possible. Other possibilties would be a worn out bushing that has now worn the ring sealing surface and is allowing fluid pressure to go somewhere it wasn't intended. Either way it needs to come apart and very close inspection of all bushings and sealing surfaces completed before condemning any thing.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1091768
10/10/11 03:31 PM
10/10/11 03:31 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
|
Quote:
Yes, the front band is applied for 2nd. The determining factor though was that you said it did this with 2 different VB's. Hard to believe they would both have the same problem. But I guess anything is possible. Other possibilties would be a worn out bushing that has now worn the ring sealing surface and is allowing fluid pressure to go somewhere it wasn't intended. Either way it needs to come apart and very close inspection of all bushings and sealing surfaces completed before condemning any thing.
Is it possible that the rear clutch is slipping enough to make it seem like 2nd gear?
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Todd]
#1091769
10/10/11 04:29 PM
10/10/11 04:29 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
|
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
|
Well if it was there would be clutch material in the pan and second and third would be slipping too.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Todd]
#1091771
10/10/11 04:39 PM
10/10/11 04:39 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
BeEtLeJuIcE !
The village idiot's idiot
|
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
|
Quote:
When I had the pan off for the valve body change didn't notice any kind of "trash" in the pan. What will the "trash" look like?
The rear drum itself could be containing the failed sprag material...
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: Todd]
#1091773
10/11/11 01:17 PM
10/11/11 01:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,023
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,023
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Is it possible that the rear clutch is slipping enough to make it seem like 2nd gear?
No , the rear clutch is applied in ALL forward gears , if the rear clutch slips you have NEUTRAL.
I can't explain why it appears to be starting in second as the the front band has to be applied for it to be in second.
Did you last VB or this current one have low band apply ? If not then the sprag is toast .
What bolt in sprag did you have installed , the generic case repair kind or the A+A or Coan types ? if the generic type it does nothing to stop the sprag rollers from failing , all it dies it keep the race from spinning in the case.
|
|
|
Re: 727 won't shift
[Re: JohnRR]
#1091774
10/16/11 08:38 PM
10/16/11 08:38 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
|
Well I got the pan off and found no trash in the pan. Dropped the valve body and did the air test on it and everything operates as should. My trans guy said it all looks really good and suspects the valve body. I took apart the valve body after my trans guy left (he couldn't stay had a honey do list to take care of) and this manual valve body looks like it was converted over from a standard one. The insides have drill marks in spots and some holes in the plate blocked. BTW the sprag is a TCI. He has a turbo action cheeta valve body he is gonna let me try.  Any idea what to look for in that valve body?
Last edited by Todd; 10/16/11 11:11 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Never had to tear one down that far so I guess i'm about to learn how its done unless I can get my tranny guy to come over and do it for me. 
When I had the pan off for the valve body change didn't notice any kind of "trash" in the pan. What will the "trash" look like?