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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1067893
09/03/11 04:14 PM
09/03/11 04:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,851
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,851
S.E. Michigan
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I find it kind of odd that, only a few years ago Comp used to recommend not using the XE cams for actual driving, street, power tour and so on. If a person picked up the phone and called, they'd say no way, it won't work...use an old high energy or magnum grind instead. Then a few years and many magazine articles later, everyone wants to use them in everything, almost all of them make noise, and Comp says now it is OK to use them in whatever you want.  They do run well, but if you're going to have lifter noise then why even use a hydraulic to begin with? Quote:
How do the older MP cams differ?
The lifter moves very slowly, and most of them have narrow lobe separation because they were designed to work with the poor flowing stock iron cylinder heads of the day 
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1067894
09/03/11 06:01 PM
09/03/11 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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Quote:
I find it kind of odd that, only a few years ago Comp used to recommend not using the XE cams for actual driving, street, power tour and so on.
If a person picked up the phone and called, they'd say no way, it won't work...use an old high energy or magnum grind instead.
Then a few years and many magazine articles later, everyone wants to use them in everything, almost all of them make noise, and Comp says now it is OK to use them in whatever you want.
They do run well, but if you're going to have lifter noise then why even use a hydraulic to begin with?
Quote:
How do the older MP cams differ?
The lifter moves very slowly, and most of them have narrow lobe separation because they were designed to work with the poor flowing stock iron cylinder heads of the day
good point. the faster the ramps the noisier the tappets.
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1067895
09/03/11 06:41 PM
09/03/11 06:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
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I had a Comp XE295HL in my old engine and it was only loud when you had the hood open  I had a set of stock iron rockers with mine. I really think some people don't put enough pre-load on them Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: BradH]
#1067897
09/04/11 12:48 AM
09/04/11 12:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Another one of those "happy wandering threads". Started out as a " noise bothers me issue". Then moved in to a solid is better than a hydraulic for racing issue. Then in to the old technology is better than new technology issue. I'm  . Sorry, but I would be happy to give up all the above for a tenth!
Fastest 300
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: Crizila]
#1067898
09/04/11 01:02 AM
09/04/11 01:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Quote:
Another one of those "happy wandering threads". Started out as a " noise bothers me issue". Then moved in to a solid is better than a hydraulic for racing issue. Then in to the old technology is better than new technology issue. I'm . Sorry, but I would be happy to give up all the above for a tenth!
Shoot I would too.
But what do ya do if your junk is slow, and trashes like a blender full or marbles... LOL...
I mean in a street car? Even at the track, how much better is this noise sticks? No way a tenth.. Were talking about a few numbers... And even then its "Just bracket Racing" anyways..
Its embarrassing to start it up.... Sure Open headers would drown it out.. But for Us street guys who actually use full length exh systems, and true mufflers..
Like said before, why put up with all that clatter, when you could have a solid lift.. I know some will say maintenance, but not in my engines. My junk never needed adjusted very often, if any at all. Several times I recall pulling the rocker shafts and putting them back without breaking loose the adjusters... Quick check with my high tech hand/finger gauge and its all good. 
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: Crizila]
#1067899
09/04/11 01:26 AM
09/04/11 01:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
goldmember
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
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Quote:
Another one of those "happy wandering threads". Started out as a " noise bothers me issue". Then moved in to a solid is better than a hydraulic for racing issue. Then in to the old technology is better than new technology issue. I'm . Sorry, but I would be happy to give up all the above for a tenth!
I never brought up solid lifter cams,thought about it.... I also don't subscribe to "new tech" being a bad thing. A friend and cam designer told me years ago that it's easy to design a great looking lobe(on paper) for a .904 lifter,the problem is the hyd lifter is easily confused trying to translate it to stable valve action.This still has nothing to do with a generally noisy hyd cam profile. When I'm stuck with a hyd cam I choose a stable lobe and if I THINK I need more area I'll add rocker ratio and test.
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: goldmember]
#1067900
09/04/11 10:01 AM
09/04/11 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
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Modern Hydraulic flat tappets are much faster ramps than the older ones that made power more by maxing torque in the sweet spot and with realtively big but comapartively slow ramps. Mopar valvetrain is typically bigger and far heavier than the .824 Chevy and .875 Ford, that mass takes it's toll in terms of noise. Lighter valves (like the smaller stem edelbrocks and lighter valvetrain components upstream (retainers, bee hives) help up top in terms of rpm stability but down low for the clatter a lot of people seem not to mind I'd just as soon run a solid and have better response and cleaner pull on both sides of the scale. The comp XE's and the like seem to make good power but they often sound awful under the hood. For Flat taps I'm old school but I generally prefer the older (80's era assymetrical)Crowers, Ultradynes and engle series hughes were also very good; after all the hype quicker ramp speeds on Hydraulics will really only get you so far compared to a solid and solids are a whole lot lighter mass, my preference has always been to really work the heads to max out that mid lift (.200-.450) 'sweet spot' and just keep the cam tried and true. I'll bet that the reality is 90% of the R&D for the quicker ramps is developed around SBC test mules and then simply 'scaled up' for the .904 mopar market  Noise and harmonics that don't 'sound' quite right even though they seem to function ok will always stick in my mind and ruin my driving satisfaction, you're always gonna be thinking about it.
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1067903
09/08/11 10:17 PM
09/08/11 10:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
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I had the XE295HL in my 496 with Eddy heads and used the standard Comp Lifters with Crane adjustable rockers. Preload was at 1/3 turn. No way was there objectionable noise....there was SOME valvetrain noise, but the noise from the piston clearances was a lot worse. Look at a Comp XEHL cam and then a milder MP cam.....lobe differences???....Yep! The Comps are quite aggressive.
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1067904
09/09/11 09:27 AM
09/09/11 09:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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Quote:
Fast rate of lift camshafts and too much spring pressure will overide the hydraulic mechanism.
Some of the cheaper lifters can't handle it.
Keith
Bingo!
Thats why i highly recammend the Anti-pumpup lifters like the Pro-magnums, I have had nothing but problems with the standard lifters & fast-rate lift cams, I think thats were comp & others make that mistake by putting there "basic" style lifters in the cam kits, thats why its best to buy them seperately, may cost a bit more, but hey, in the long run your happy, no excessive noise.
I've run a few .284H cams in both SBs & BBs, at 1st. i learned the hard way, then took the advice of a mopar member about 10yrs. ago. Buy the "Pro-Magnum" Anti-pumpup lifters & set the preload at 1/8" turn.
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: joedust451]
#1067905
09/09/11 02:07 PM
09/09/11 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,566
Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,566
Motor City
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I have the Comp XE294H in my Charger with a 440. Not too much more moise than any other engine & I drive this car everywhere. Since its just a driver I didn't want to spend all of the extra money to go to a roller cam (for now). Everyone with me can't believe all of the compliments I get how good it sounds & how stock everything looks.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: Commando1]
#1067908
09/09/11 05:28 PM
09/09/11 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,588
St. John's Newfoundland
440newport
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,588
St. John's Newfoundland
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Quote:
Quote:
I have had several of these new style Hyd flat tappet cams, sure they run OK but the valve train noise is horrible..
And I thought it was just me.
Makes me feel better about my last build. Thanks. 
The Lunati Voodoo in my 400 sounds like a sewing machine at idle. It's really irritating.
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Re: Who do all these modern flat Hyd sound like crap?
[Re: 440newport]
#1067909
09/16/11 10:05 AM
09/16/11 10:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 130
Marcell, MN
68 Roadrunner
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 130
Marcell, MN
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Wow! You guys can't believe how much better I feel about my build after reading this! My valvetrain noise has been bothering me all summer. I kept thinking about swapping out the lifters this winter. I know my pushrods are also a little on the short side but they seem to be working fine with adjustable rockers. I am running a Voodoo and it has "some" noise. I wouldn't call it horrible, but the stock cam, lifters, rockers were whisper quiet, so I figured I did something wrong!
1968 Roadrunner 383 auto
.060 KB 400 domed pistons, Stealth heads, Torker intake, Holley 830, Lunati Voodoo cam 276/284, .513/.533, TCI 3500, 3.91 gears, all ARP fasteners,
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